How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jimmy Higgins]

Then Democrats withdraw letter urging Biden to rethink Ukraine war strategy - The Washington Post

They also worried the letter could create more pressure on Biden as he tries to sustain domestic support for the war effort, at a time when the region is heading into a potentially difficult winter and Republicans are threatening to cut aid to Ukraine if they retake Congress.

On Tuesday, Jayapal said the letter had been drafted several months ago and “released by staff without vetting.”

“As Chair of the Caucus, I accept responsibility for this. Because of the timing, our message is being conflated by some as being equivalent to the recent statement by Republican Leader [Kevin] McCarthy threatening an end to aid to Ukraine if Republicans take over,” Jayapal said in a statement.

“The proximity of these statements created the unfortunate appearance that Democrats, who have strongly and unanimously supported and voted for every package of military, strategic, and economic assistance to the Ukrainian people, are somehow aligned with Republicans who seek to pull the plug on American support for President Zelensky and the Ukrainian forces.”

Some of the other signers also backtracked from that letter.

Mark Pocan on Twitter: "@yoshikoherrera @RepMarkPocan @POTUS Hear you. First, this was written in July & I have no idea why it went out now. Bad timing. Second, it was trying to get to a cease-fire & diplomacy as others were banging war drums, not criticizing Biden. Third, I’ve supported the efforts & will continue. Over analyzed by some." / Twitter

Congresswoman Sara Jacobs on Twitter: "Timing in diplomacy is everything.
I signed this letter on June 30, but a lot has changed since then. I wouldn't sign it today.
We have to continue supporting Ukraine economically and militarily to give them the leverage they need to end this war." / Twitter

I don't know if these are left-wing populists, progressives, or people that just swung a certain direction to get elected. But I do know there are fucking idiots for signing that thing. And their attempt to spin their signatures is transparent.

 

[barbos]

Another reference to you wanting people to suffer, which has become your calling card.

Europe choose suffering themselves. And suffering is better than dying.

 

[laughing dog]

Liberal lawmakers urge Biden to shift Ukraine strategy - The Washington Post

In the letter, the 30 Democrats led by Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, call on Biden to pair the unprecedented economic and military support the United States is providing Ukraine with a “proactive diplomatic push, redoubling efforts to seek a realistic framework for a cease fire.

The letter itself

Signed by Pramila Jayapal (head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus), Earl Blumenauer, Cori Bush, Jesús G. "Chuy" García, Raúl M. Grijalva, Sara Jacobs, Ro Khanna, Barbara Lee, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, Sheila Jackson Lee, Mark Pocan, Nydia M. Velázquez, Gwen S. Moore, Yvette D. Clarke, Henry C. "Hank" Johnson, Jr., Rashida Tlaib, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Mondaire Jones, Peter A. DeFazio, Jamaal Bowman, Ed.D., Marie Newman, Alma S. Adams, Ph.D., Chellie Pingree, Jamie Raskin, Bonnie Watson Coleman, Mark Takano, André Carson, Donald M. Payne, Jr., Mark DeSaulnier

PJ then issued a statement "clarifying" that letter.

“Let me be clear: we are united as Democrats in our unequivocal commitment to supporting Ukraine in their fight for their democracy and freedom in the face of the illegal and outrageous Russian invasion,” Jayapal said. “Diplomacy is an important tool that can save lives — but it is just one tool.”

Ukrainians say U.S. Democrats pressuring for peace talks don’t get Putin - The Washington Post

Members of Ukraine’s political elite rejected demands by some congressional Democrats for negotiations with Russia to end the war, saying this was “not a viable option,” after a group of liberals called on President Biden to push Kyiv for direct talks with Moscow.

The Ukrainians said that Russian President Vladimir Putin had closed off any possibility of negotiations by illegally declaring the annexation of four Ukrainian regions, and that the Russians, who are facing repeated setbacks on the battlefield, would use any cease-fire to rebuild their strength and then resume Putin’s plan to steal Ukrainian territory and destroy Ukraine as a nation.

There is no point in talks with ukrainian regime. They are bunch of nazis who are controlled by US neocons. You want war to end? Stop supporting it.

The President of Ukraine is Jewish. It is either batshit crazy to claim he is a Nazi or an outright lie.

 

[barbos]

I think you meant the Russian military is running out of people to be in a hurry.

You really do believe that Russia suffers significant casualties, don't you?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Another reference to you wanting people to suffer, which has become your calling card.

Europe choose suffering themselves.

Yes, that helps some people compartmentalize the apathic and sociopathic thoughts.

And suffering is better than dying.

That is a Russian Idiom, not a widely held belief.

 

[lpetrich]

Adam Parkhomenko on Twitter: "I’m ready to move on from that idiotic Ukraine letter. But maybe we could try to stay focused and not endorse anymore Marjorie Taylor Greene proposals for the next two weeks." / Twitter

In Bakhmut and Kherson, Ukrainian forces advance against Russian fighters - The Washington Post

Away from the battlefield, the Kremlin continued to push a claim, asserted repeatedly without evidence, that Kyiv was preparing to use a “dirty bomb,” a weapon that combines conventional explosives with radioactive material — an accusation that was dismissed by the United States and other Western nations.

Seems like projection to me.

 

[barbos]

Yes, that helps some people compartmentalize the apathic and sociopathic thoughts.

Sorry man, after you blew gas pipeline I became sociopathic toward Europe.

 

[laughing dog]

I think you meant the Russian military is running out of people to be in a hurry.

You really do believe that Russia suffers significant casualties, don't you?

So the reason for the conscription is.......?

 

[barbos]

That is a Russian Idiom, not a widely held belief.

That's not a russian idiom. And again, don't advice russian army what to do, do Ukraine as you currently do.

 

[Elixir]

Yes, that helps some people compartmentalize the apathic and sociopathic thoughts.

Sorry man, after you blew gas pipeline I became sociopathic toward europe.

Well that's a great reason to listen to you.
NOT.
Seems like sociopathy is just the tip of the iceberg; becoming increasingly misinformed and deluded appears to be another side effect of losing in general. Now you've lost your precious pipeline(s), your despotic leader's criminal war, your last vestiges of international respect, your military capability (if y'all ever had any, which is now doubtful) and even the American right wingers' complicity - which is quite a feat, given their undying allegiance to guys like Putler.

 

[barbos]

Adam Parkhomenko on Twitter: "I’m ready to move on from that idiotic Ukraine letter. But maybe we could try to stay focused and not endorse anymore Marjorie Taylor Greene proposals for the next two weeks." / Twitter

In Bakhmut and Kherson, Ukrainian forces advance against Russian fighters - The Washington Post

Away from the battlefield, the Kremlin continued to push a claim, asserted repeatedly without evidence, that Kyiv was preparing to use a “dirty bomb,” a weapon that combines conventional explosives with radioactive material — an accusation that was dismissed by the United States and other Western nations.

Seems like projection to me.

Actually, it's not a projection and evidence was provided. so much so that ukrainian government critters got worried and released a pretty hysterical "rebuttal"

And WaPo is neocon mouthpiece, utter garbage in other words.

 

[Elixir]

And suffering is better than dying.

That is a Russian Idiom, not a widely held belief.

Hey! Why not do both??
Russian heroes will show us how!

 

[ZiprHead]

If the west was at war with Russia... you would no longer have the capacity to transmit your energy resources anywhere.

That's the best west can do right now. And yes it's a war west started.

Dude, the west (US and Britain) would lay waste to your pipeline infrastructure from subs up north. If the West wanted to hurt Russia badly, it could. You are deluding yourself if you think the West is even trying. Right now, the main thing holding the West back is fear of Putin going
scorched Earth.

Hitler made the same mistake you do.
And our pipeline? It's german pipeline and it's already wasted ..... by you.

Why is Russia refusing to accept the repaired pipeline turbine that would enable them to pump more gas through the remaining piplines? Because they want Europe in the cold and dark.

Speaking of pipelines. You have them too, and Russia have subs too.

Yeah, I hear there's one sitting on the bottom of the ocean filled with dead Russians.

 

[Elixir]

I hear there's [at least] one sitting on the bottom of the ocean filled with dead Russians.

FIFY

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is a Russian Idiom, not a widely held belief.

That's not a russian idiom.

Its etched in Russian DNA.

And again, don't advice russian army what to do, do Ukraine as you currently do.

Well, if it makes you feel better, the Russian Army stopped taking my calls once they realized I wasn't Yakov Smirnoff.

And the idea that you honestly want people to believe the Russian military is taking a leisurely approach to Ukrainian domination is perhaps the most unbelievable thing I've ever read that you posted.

 

[Elixir]

Man, this is like Vietnam. Soon Russians will have killed every Ukrainian three times over.

that you honestly want people to believe the Russian military is taking a leisurely approach to Ukrainian domination is perhaps the most unbelievable thing I've ever read that you posted.

I'm still going with "There will be no invasion"

 

[ZiprHead]

Liberal lawmakers urge Biden to shift Ukraine strategy - The Washington Post

In the letter, the 30 Democrats led by Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.), chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, call on Biden to pair the unprecedented economic and military support the United States is providing Ukraine with a “proactive diplomatic push, redoubling efforts to seek a realistic framework for a cease fire.

The letter itself

Signed by Pramila Jayapal (head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus), Earl Blumenauer, Cori Bush, Jesús G. "Chuy" García, Raúl M. Grijalva, Sara Jacobs, Ro Khanna, Barbara Lee, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, Sheila Jackson Lee, Mark Pocan, Nydia M. Velázquez, Gwen S. Moore, Yvette D. Clarke, Henry C. "Hank" Johnson, Jr., Rashida Tlaib, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Mondaire Jones, Peter A. DeFazio, Jamaal Bowman, Ed.D., Marie Newman, Alma S. Adams, Ph.D., Chellie Pingree, Jamie Raskin, Bonnie Watson Coleman, Mark Takano, André Carson, Donald M. Payne, Jr., Mark DeSaulnier

PJ then issued a statement "clarifying" that letter.

“Let me be clear: we are united as Democrats in our unequivocal commitment to supporting Ukraine in their fight for their democracy and freedom in the face of the illegal and outrageous Russian invasion,” Jayapal said. “Diplomacy is an important tool that can save lives — but it is just one tool.”

Ukrainians say U.S. Democrats pressuring for peace talks don’t get Putin - The Washington Post

Members of Ukraine’s political elite rejected demands by some congressional Democrats for negotiations with Russia to end the war, saying this was “not a viable option,” after a group of liberals called on President Biden to push Kyiv for direct talks with Moscow.

The Ukrainians said that Russian President Vladimir Putin had closed off any possibility of negotiations by illegally declaring the annexation of four Ukrainian regions, and that the Russians, who are facing repeated setbacks on the battlefield, would use any cease-fire to rebuild their strength and then resume Putin’s plan to steal Ukrainian territory and destroy Ukraine as a nation.

There is no point in talks with ukrainian regime. They are bunch of nazis who are controlled by US neocons. You want war to end? Stop supporting it.

You wish.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Speaking of pipelines. You have them too, and Russia have subs too.

Yeah, I hear there's one sitting on the bottom of the ocean filled with dead Russians.

Reminds me when Russian officials drugged the outspoken mother of one of the dead sailors at some press event. It wasn't as much that they drugged her that was amazing, as it was, they were standing by prepared to drug people that dared to suggest what happened was wrong and being lied to was wrong.

 

[Elixir]

Aww barbie ... there is no point in talks with Russian regime. They are bunch of nazis who are controlled by a Hitler wannabe. You want war to end? Go home.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yeah, this is nothing but ignoring the fact that Russia has made almost no gains in Ukraine up to this point, other than absorbing "rebel" gains in the last several years.

Russian army is not subject to your schedule. They are operating on their own.

Yes, russians are not in a hurry. Winter is coming. Hopefully it will be very cold
Especially in London/Paris/Berlin

So you admit you want Europe cold.

On the other hand, Ukrainians ARE on a tight schedule, elections in US and then damn winter

Those poorly equiped Russians soldiers are going to be in that same winter.