How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Elixir]

This Youtube video is a promotion piece for the  Aviadvigatel PD-14 engine developed for commercial aircraft in Russia. It has nothing to do with Ukraine or the invasion force that Russia has assembled. Barbos does not explain why he posted it here. The engine is intended to compete with those developed in Europe and the US, but Russia is still far behind in its ability to compete in those markets. Hence, the aircraft that Russian manufacturers do sell can also be fitted with engines manufactured in the West. China is also trying to build a commercial aircraft industry that competes with Western manufacturers. It is likely that the Russian commercial aircraft industry will be hit very hard by sanctions, if Russia invades Ukraine. Their aircraft industry is right at the top of the target list.

IT'S A PROMO PIECE. Does barbos have another mission here than to promote the greatness of the Sov -er, Russia?
It's also a half hour long. And presumably no commercials. It was kinda funny after the first few minutes, realizing how long that is compared to western attention spans.

 

[Copernicus]

IT'S A PROMO PIECE. Does barbos have another mission here than to promote the greatness of the Sov -er, Russia?
It's also a half hour long. And presumably no commercials. It was kinda funny after the first few minutes, realizing how long that is compared to western attention spans.

As a retired Boeing employee, I'm familiar with marketing materials of this sort. I've also had contacts within the Russian aviation industry. I have the greatest respect for their engineering capabilities, but this engine is no great breakthrough. It is just another development in commercial aircraft engine manufacturing.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Of course you don't know. Cause MSM is lying to you,
What Putin said was merely statement of fact. It does not imply his desire to recreate USSR. What he said is simply the fact, that's it, nothing else. USSR could have been reformed without all that economic mayhem dissolution caused.
But fucking MSM clowns made a galactic deal out of it. The same way they were foaming not stop about alleged Putin admission of interference in your elections.

Your gotcha MSM journalism is fucking annoying.

Attacking "the MSM" is almost inevitably an indication of trying to promote untruths as truths.

While they do leave a lot to be desired they're far better than their opponents.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Chris Murphy just claimed that Ukraine lost 14 thousands soldiers fighting russians in East Ukraine.
I don't know where that stupid fucker gets his info but 14 thousands number are total losses, which are basically equal split between ukrainian army, rebel forces and civilians.
He also claims that Ukraine will be Afghanistan for Russia, lying dumbass.
Russia can walk into Eastern Ukraine the same way they "walked" into Crimea - One guy died .... from the heart attack. What a lying piece of shit.

There's every reason to think it could be another Afghanistan.

The reality is a war can't be won if the base of supply can't be attacked.

Thus Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Afghanistan.

 

[Patooka]

Unlike most people who opposed the Iraq war, I opposed it both before and after January of 2009. For some reason most of the people who agreed with me that the US shouldn't be in Iraq disappeared in January 2009. I wonder if something happened in January 2009 that cause them all to disappear.

That's easy. Nothing happened. A lot of people, myself included, were still against the initial invasion. But if you broke it, you bought it. I know accountability and responsibility are difficult concepts for a true libertarian like yourself, but some people have the opinion that if you topple and destabilize a sovereign nation you should at least make an effort to fix your fuckup.

And guess what? It's 2022 and I still believe the invasion of Iraq was a mistake and I still believe the coalition nations should had done a better job cleaning up the fuck-tastrophe they created. Do you need an explanation as to why those two statements are not contradictory? I certainly have complete faith in you ability to exercise basic comprehension, so I'll provide an explanation if you like - in crayon if necessary.

 

[barbos]

War is a lot of fun. Have at it Russia.

You honestly believe that war will be different from "occupation" Crimea?

Yes. It will be FAR more different and violent. Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are predominately pro Russia, but the rest of Ukraine is not. They will fight. They will likely lose, but they will inflict significant casualties.

MSM is doing disservice rather well.
Americans were surprised with how easy it was to "occupy" Crimea.
You can be surprised again with the rest of Ukraine, certainly with East Ukraine.
MSM is lying to you, the same way it lied to you about situation in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[Patooka]

MSM is doing disservice rather well.

There has only been one foreign leader who determined foreign policy based on what he saw on TV. He got sacked. Every country is currently making decisions and statements based on their respective intelligence services. When everyone is saying Professor Plum in the kitchen with the candlestick except Professor Plum, it's kind of a tell.

 

[ZiprHead]

MSM is lying to you, the same way it lied to you about situation in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I was against both of those wars because of what the MSM told me. It was clear to me that Bush and Cheney were lying.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Unlike most people who opposed the Iraq war, I opposed it both before and after January of 2009. For some reason most of the people who agreed with me that the US shouldn't be in Iraq disappeared in January 2009. I wonder if something happened in January 2009 that cause them all to disappear.

That's easy. Nothing happened. A lot of people, myself included, were still against the initial invasion. But if you broke it, you bought it. I know accountability and responsibility are difficult concepts for a true libertarian like yourself, but some people have the opinion that if you topple and destabilize a sovereign nation you should at least make an effort to fix your fuckup.

Ah, nothing of any historical significance happened in January of 2009. Good to know that, yet it makes it confusing how people who were anti-war in December of 2008 were silent in February of 2009.

Nothing of any note at all happened in January 2009.

 

[ZiprHead]

Unlike most people who opposed the Iraq war, I opposed it both before and after January of 2009. For some reason most of the people who agreed with me that the US shouldn't be in Iraq disappeared in January 2009. I wonder if something happened in January 2009 that cause them all to disappear.

That's easy. Nothing happened. A lot of people, myself included, were still against the initial invasion. But if you broke it, you bought it. I know accountability and responsibility are difficult concepts for a true libertarian like yourself, but some people have the opinion that if you topple and destabilize a sovereign nation you should at least make an effort to fix your fuckup.

Ah, nothing of any historical significance happened in January of 2009. Good to know that, yet it makes it confusing how people who were anti-war in December of 2008 were silent in February of 2009.

Nothing of any note at all happened in January 2009.

You seem to make a lot of claims of history yet you seem to never back those claimes up with proof. Intresteing concept.

 

[Patooka]

Good to know that, yet it makes it confusing how people who were anti-war in December of 2008 were silent in February of 2009.

Maybe I do need to break out the crayons. Nobody shifted their position in the manner you suggested. Now I know English is a remarkably difficult language for you to understand, which is why you equate invasion, nation building, war and foreign aid as all the same thing so I suggest you go to your local doctor and find out why you are virulently allergic to nuance and distinction.

 

[barbos]

MSM is lying to you, the same way it lied to you about situation in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I was against both of those wars because of what the MSM told me. It was clear to me that Bush and Cheney were lying.

Good for you. You should have informed MSM, cause they did not know, they still don't know.

 

[barbos]

MSM is doing disservice rather well.

There has only been one foreign leader who determined foreign policy based on what he saw on TV. He got sacked. Every country is currently making decisions and statements based on their respective intelligence services. When everyone is saying Professor Plum in the kitchen with the candlestick except Professor Plum, it's kind of a tell.

So, what is the point of free press then?
Entertainment?

 

[Patooka]

So, what is the point of free press then?

Ideally, to keep citizens informed. Practically however, you're more right than wrong. A free press tends to gravitate towards a blend of entertainment, advertising and information. The mix varies. Doesn't change the fact that when French, British, German, Canadian or basically any government makes a statement with regards to foreign policy it is based on sources citizens aren't typically privileged to have access to. The only government that appears incongruent to every other nation in the world right now with regards to Ukraine appears to be Russia's government.

I'm sorry, is this news to you? (pun unintended) I'll repeat, as a rule most nations do not orchestrate foreign policy from what they see on CNN or FOX.

 

[barbos]

So, what is the point of free press then?

Ideally, to keep citizens informed. Practically however, you're more right than wrong. A free press tends to gravitate towards a blend of entertainment, advertising and information. The mix varies. Doesn't change the fact that when French, British, German, Canadian or basically any government makes a statement with regards to foreign policy it is based on sources citizens aren't typically privileged to have access to. The only government that appears incongruent to every other nation in the world right now with regards to Ukraine appears to be Russia's government.

I'm sorry, is this news to you? (pun unintended) I'll repeat, as a rule most nations do not orchestrate foreign policy from what they see on CNN or FOX.

Your government is lying to you and free press aka MSM is complicit.
Not only US as a country was not sanctioned for illegal Iraq and Yugoslavia invasions, it was not even questioned by "free" (MSM) press.
And it is not being questioned now about Ukraine. "Free" Press is just parroting neocon garbage.

 

[Patooka]

Your government is lying to you

Fucking oath my government is lying to me. ScoMo is a fucking cunt after all. But not in regards to this.

and free press aka MSM is complicit.

Considering how much of Australia's media (I'm certain a significant majority but haven't done the math) is run by either Peter Costello or Rupert Murdoch, I'm inclined to agree as their business model is to see how far they can crawl up into Morrison's colon before the canary dies. But there are parts of the Australian MSM (fuck that is a terrible term) that aren't and for you to believe that not only are they in complete agreement with their business rivals but also the Federal Government and every other nation in the world except Russia solely to deceive me is fucking laughable.

Not only US as a country was not sanctioned for Iraq and Yugoslavia invasions, it was not even questioned by "free" (MSM) press.

That's strange, because at the time I could have sworn I saw on the news a plethora of interviews from people like Richard Clarke, Scott Ritter (yeah I know), Mohamed ElBaradei and Andrew Wilkie. I must have been hallucinating.

 

[barbos]

Fucking oath my government is lying to me. ScoMo is a fucking cunt after all. But not in regards to this.

How do you know this?
Did your government express their concerns about lack of progress in investigation of Odessa massacre? sniper attack? Bans of russian language? Threats to hang russians coming from ukrainian officials, naming streets after nazi collaborators and jew murderers? Was it even reported?

and for you to believe that not only are they in complete agreement with their business rivals but also the Federal Government and every other nation in the world except Russia solely to deceive me is fucking laughable.

Well, that's just a fact, no need to believe it. As far as foreign affairs concerned MSM seems to be remarkably united.

That's strange, because at the time I could have sworn I saw on the news a plethora of interviews from people like Richard Clarke, Scott Ritter (yeah I know), Mohamed ElBaradei and Andrew Wilkie. I must have been hallucinating.

Yes, and MSM was fully behind the idea that Iraq should be invaded.

 

[Patooka]

How do you know this?

Because a global conspiracy intended to deceive every nation's citizens perpetuated by world leaders just to make Russia look bad is QAnon level of absurdity. When did the meeting happen? And how the fuck did they get Australia to attend the same summit New Zealand would be attending? Fuck right off

Well, that's just a fact, no need to believe it. As far as foreign affairs concerned MSM seems to be remarkably united.

MSM has differing opinions on the the colour of a fucking orange is. Again, the premise of a unified cabal design to deceive is QAnon bullshit.

Yes, and MSM was fully behind the idea that Iraq should be invaded.

Oh fuck me. I just gave you four names of people who were repeatedly interviewed before and during the invasion with a strong anti stance. Unfortunately finding archived footage on the internet dating 20 years ago is near impossible, but it did happen.

Four Corners - Seven Ways To See A War - TheTVDB.com

www.thetvdb.com

Four Corners - Prosecuting Saddam - TheTVDB.com

www.thetvdb.com

Four Corners - Operation Persuasion - TheTVDB.com

www.thetvdb.com

And that's just off my memory.

 

[barbos]

Oh fuck me. I just gave you four names of people who were repeatedly interviewed before and during the invasion with a strong anti stance

I am talking about MSM not questioning people who were lying.
Reporting the fact that the head of international nuke regulation business was skeptical is the least MSM could do. In fact, they could not avoid doing it. MSM was pro-war, that's just a fact.

So, give me an example of decent MSM journalism with regards to Ukraine crap.
it's been 14 years and MSM still lying about Georgia, and you still believe it was Russia.

 

[Patooka]

So, give me example of decent MSM journalism with regards of Ukraine crap.

I am very much aware what your standard of "decent MSM journalism" is. You'll get it six weeks after hell freezes over. I'm not gonna play that game.