How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[robnisch]

I would looooooooooooooooooooooooooove for Armenia to apply for NATO membership and reject Russian association.

They do have the major advantage of not having a direct border with Russia.

A Russian invasion would depend on at least one out of Azerbaijan and Georgia playing along with Putin.

Little Diomede Island - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not direct, but close.

 

[bilby]

I would looooooooooooooooooooooooooove for Armenia to apply for NATO membership and reject Russian association.

They do have the major advantage of not having a direct border with Russia.

A Russian invasion would depend on at least one out of Azerbaijan and Georgia playing along with Putin.

Little Diomede Island - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not direct, but close.

???

Little Diomede Island is about 8,000km (5,000 miles) from Armenia.

 

[Copernicus]

Russia can work with that, and Ukraine will have to find

Dang!
To bad the country Elon Musk immigrated to hasn't got a "Commander in Chief", capable of making military decisions for the citizenry.
Tom

I doubt that Biden has any really good options for ordering Starlink or Musk to support the Ukrainian effort. It would be a different story if the US were actually engaged in the conflict. As it is, we just supply weaponry and logistical support. I believe that Starlink was donated to Ukraine by Musk, so he can withdraw that support. The US was reportedly purchasing the service back in June, but I don't know where that effort is at right now.

Pentagon awards SpaceX with Ukraine contract for Starlink satellite internet​

See, this is the difference between you and the ruthlessly powerful. You see rules. Ethics and moral principles.
They see obstacles.
Things to be overcome.

That's why Trump and Putin and Hitler and Mao became world leaders. They didn't let morals or ethics get in their way.
Tom

I'm not as cynical as you about that. Those kinds of people don't become world leaders all that often. Putin only got that way by pretending to be a different kind of leader. Trump is now going through a legal meat grinder that could take him out of contention. Germans had much bigger grievances for a rising fascist dictator to take advantage of, and Mao won a real civil war. Putin used a trumped-up Chechen terrorist attack to restart and win the violent war to suppress Chechnya, but he also had a country that was reeling from a sense of humiliation (like Hitler) and a really tough decade after the collapse of their empire. He appeared to reverse that trend and end the period of economic freefall. He also got a lot of respect from world leaders before he decided to invade his neighbor.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Russia can work with that, and Ukraine will have to find

Dang!
To bad the country Elon Musk immigrated to hasn't got a "Commander in Chief", capable of making military decisions for the citizenry.
Tom

I doubt that Biden has any really good options for ordering Starlink or Musk to support the Ukrainian effort. It would be a different story if the US were actually engaged in the conflict. As it is, we just supply weaponry and logistical support. I believe that Starlink was donated to Ukraine by Musk, so he can withdraw that support. The US was reportedly purchasing the service back in June, but I don't know where that effort is at right now.

Pentagon awards SpaceX with Ukraine contract for Starlink satellite internet​

I actually don't mind too much what he did with Starlink. It was provided on the condition of being used for comms, not for weapons--and he enforced that.

 

[Copernicus]

Russia can work with that, and Ukraine will have to find

Dang!
To bad the country Elon Musk immigrated to hasn't got a "Commander in Chief", capable of making military decisions for the citizenry.
Tom

I doubt that Biden has any really good options for ordering Starlink or Musk to support the Ukrainian effort. It would be a different story if the US were actually engaged in the conflict. As it is, we just supply weaponry and logistical support. I believe that Starlink was donated to Ukraine by Musk, so he can withdraw that support. The US was reportedly purchasing the service back in June, but I don't know where that effort is at right now.

Pentagon awards SpaceX with Ukraine contract for Starlink satellite internet​

I actually don't mind too much what he did with Starlink. It was provided on the condition of being used for comms, not for weapons--and he enforced that.

That's true. He has been very public about not wanting it to be used for drone attacks, although Ukraine has still found ways to use it for that purpose. This particular incident was driven by a conversation with Russia before the attack took place. I assume that the Pentagon contract allows its use for that specific purpose and intends to use the service that way itself. I wonder if this action might have played some role in compensation negotiations behind the scenes. Although the contract was awarded in June, it hasn't been made public what the timeline for it is, what its scope is, or how much money is involved.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Russia can work with that, and Ukraine will have to find

Dang!
To bad the country Elon Musk immigrated to hasn't got a "Commander in Chief", capable of making military decisions for the citizenry.
Tom

I doubt that Biden has any really good options for ordering Starlink or Musk to support the Ukrainian effort. It would be a different story if the US were actually engaged in the conflict. As it is, we just supply weaponry and logistical support. I believe that Starlink was donated to Ukraine by Musk, so he can withdraw that support. The US was reportedly purchasing the service back in June, but I don't know where that effort is at right now.

Pentagon awards SpaceX with Ukraine contract for Starlink satellite internet​

I actually don't mind too much what he did with Starlink. It was provided on the condition of being used for comms, not for weapons--and he enforced that.

Well, there is no doubt that there are some Ukranian civilians that would be alive today if those ships had been sunk. It seems to me that this is just too much power to be in the hands of an unelected business owner accountable to no one.

 

[Elixir]

It seems to me that this is just too much power to be in the hands of an unelected business owner accountable to no one.

A taste of what’s to come under the New Kleptocracy.

 

[TomC]

It seems to me that this is just too much power to be in the hands of an unelected business owner accountable to no one.

A taste of what’s to come under the New Kleptocracy.

Tom

 

[TomC]

I doubt that Biden has any really good options for ordering Starlink or Musk to support the Ukrainian effort.

Cut off any federal payments to any enterprise Musk is in control of, permanently.

Musk is a super rich capitalist. He'll follow the money. He's done for, financially, if the U.S. government decided to stop paying corporations that support the invasion of our allies by our global enemies.

If Hillary were president, she'd have Musk's ass in a sling in minutes. And you wouldn't even know about it.
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

Hey Barbos. no comment on how thE USSR had a pact with the Nazis and Hitler?

Russia alwyas seems to choose the wrong side and ends up paying for it.

 

[Elixir]

no comment on how thE USSR had a pact with the Nazis and Hitler?

Russians learned their lesson - no more with those German Nazis! Now their best buds are to their east, in China and NK.

Buying weapons from Zim … what a shitshow.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Harry Bosch]

A Russian general accidently admitted that yes, Ukraine is really just a stepping stone to invading more Eastern European countries:

Russian general admits Ukraine just a "stepping stone" to invade Europe

Ukraine "is only the beginning," Colonel-General Andrey Mordvichev warned in a recent interview.

www.newsweek.com

The Russians aren't going to stop. We need to continue supporting Ukraine. Furthermore, we need to boost up NATO further, stress more weapons development, more military training, more defensive measures in Europe. Russia wants more...

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Russia doesn't want shit. Only Putin "wants more."

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Guffaw! Russia has been spreading powerful anti-tank mines liberally in Ukraine. Ukraine has been digging them up, and dropping them from drones on Russian military equipment. Clever these Ukrainians. Each contains 18 pounds of high explosives.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Russia doesn't want shit. Only Putin "wants more."

Russia doesn't want shit. Only Putin "wants more."

I think that we're both unfairly characterizing Russians. We don't know how they all feel. There's no doubt in my mind that some are imperialists and want blood and land. Also no doubt that some want peace and economic development. Who knows what the ratio is. But I suspect that the latter have mostly left the country.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Russia doesn't want shit. Only Putin "wants more."

Russia doesn't want shit. Only Putin "wants more."

I think that we're both unfairly characterizing Russians. We don't know how they all feel. There's no doubt in my mind that some are imperialists and want blood and land. Also no doubt that some want peace and economic development. Who knows what the ratio is. But I suspect that the latter have mostly left the country.

I look to barbos. In my mind's eye he is like an ambassador representing his country.

 

[Copernicus]

Russia doesn't want shit. Only Putin "wants more."

Russia doesn't want shit. Only Putin "wants more."

I think that we're both unfairly characterizing Russians. We don't know how they all feel. There's no doubt in my mind that some are imperialists and want blood and land. Also no doubt that some want peace and economic development. Who knows what the ratio is. But I suspect that the latter have mostly left the country.

I look to barbos. In my mind's eye he is like an ambassador representing his country.

Having known a lot of Russians and Ukrainians, I disagree. He is an ambassador representing the current Russian regime, not his country. Russia, like the US, is a very large country with a very diverse population. I don't know what most Russians think, but I'm very sure that there are a lot of Russians who would not risk their lives to assimilate Ukraine. The annexation of Crimea was popular, but that was essentially a bloodless takeover. The rest of Putin's invasion has been an utter disaster that has destroyed the lives of so many young Russian men while gaining them nothing but worldwide condemnation.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Ukraine should be getting 300km ATACMS soon. Unless Biden is just teasing. I doubt it. His pattern has been to say no no no and then finally give in and say yes.
This will be great for hopefully shutting down Russian supply routes. The SCALPs are great but they have to be air launched and Ukraine does not have a lot of air assets to execute these missions. So the ground launched ATACMS should serve well.

ATACMS for Ukraine – Kyiv’s Hopes Rise, US Decision ‘Coming Soon’

 

[Harry Bosch]

Russia doesn't want shit. Only Putin "wants more."

Russia doesn't want shit. Only Putin "wants more."

I think that we're both unfairly characterizing Russians. We don't know how they all feel. There's no doubt in my mind that some are imperialists and want blood and land. Also no doubt that some want peace and economic development. Who knows what the ratio is. But I suspect that the latter have mostly left the country.

I look to barbos. In my mind's eye he is like an ambassador representing his country.

Having known a lot of Russians and Ukrainians, I disagree. He is an ambassador representing the current Russian regime, not his country. Russia, like the US, is a very large country with a very diverse population. I don't know what most Russians think, but I'm very sure that there are a lot of Russians who would not risk their lives to assimilate Ukraine. The annexation of Crimea was popular, but that was essentially a bloodless takeover. The rest of Putin's invasion has been an utter disaster that has destroyed the lives of so many young Russian men while gaining them nothing but worldwide condemnation.

Barbos represents a segment of his population. We just don't know how big it is. The danger here in my opinion is thinking that this will be a short war. Regardless, I don't see the point here. It doesn't matter to the Ukrainian's losing their loved ones every day if the soldiers have the support of their population or not. The Russians are going to keep coming until they are stopped.