How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[steve_bank]

Nothing recent. Past reporting has said as far as can be seen from polling Putin and the war has a large majoriy support. Putin is a popular figure.

Think Trump and his supporters.

 

[Elixir]

Barbos represents a segment of his population. We just don't know how big it is.

True. We do know it includes Putler and his official mouthpieces though.

 

[TomC]

Nothing recent. Past reporting has said as far as can be seen from polling Putin and the war has a large majoriy support. Putin is a popular figure.

Think Trump and his supporters.

Think Bush II and the Iraq Invasion.

Bush was very popular until his policies screwed up the country's everything so badly that a black kid from Chicago could steal the election from some top politicians, like a wealthy white war vet with connections and the Queen of the Democratic Party.
Tom

 

[steve_bank]

Nothing recent. Past reporting has said as far as can be seen from polling Putin and the war has a large majoriy support. Putin is a popular figure.

Think Trump and his supporters.

Think Bush II and the Iraq Invasion.

Bush was very popular until his policies screwed up the country's everything so badly that a black kid from Chicago could steal the election from some top politicians, like a wealthy white war vet with connections and the Queen of the Democratic Party.
Tom

That is a good point and comparison. Post 9/11 patriotism was high and there was little dissent in the media or in congress to the invasion of Iraq..

One of the few times I sent an email opinion to the WH was opposition to GWB's pending invasion.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Nothing recent. Past reporting has said as far as can be seen from polling Putin and the war has a large majoriy support. Putin is a popular figure.

Think Trump and his supporters.

Think Bush II and the Iraq Invasion.

Bush was very popular until his policies screwed up the country's everything so badly that a black kid from Chicago could steal the election from some top politicians, like a wealthy white war vet with connections and the Queen of the Democratic Party.
Tom

That is a good point and comparison. Post 9/11 patriotism was high and there was little dissent in the media or in congress to the invasion of Iraq..

One of the few times I sent an email opinion to the WH was opposition to GWB's pending invasion.

But Russia is a fascist police state. There is no tolerance for dissent. There are no opposition parties. Think North Korea. This makes it very unfair to make a comparison to the Shrub's war. Bush was able to dole out the fear and the propaganda to a bunch of right wing idiots but there was always the freedom to voice dissent. Eventually the majority realized the catastrophe he got us into. Will that happen as quickly in Ukraine? Not likely.

 

[steve_bank]

I think the point is that Russians and Chinese are as patriotic as we, the Brits, or the French are.

I think our foreign policy ignores the fact that when we harangue Russia or China over their becoming like a western state with our civil rights a large part of the Russian and Chinese population gets angry and more patriotic.

Even with our wide open free press in the run up to the invasion of Iraq there was little criticism and questions.

When General Shinseki complained he did not have enough resources for a post war occupation Rumsfeld fired him.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think the point is that Russians and Chinese are as patriotic as we, the Brits, or the French are.

I think our foreign policy ignores the fact that when we harangue Russia or China over their becoming like a western state with our civil rights a large part of the Russian and Chinese population gets angry and more patriotic.

Even with our wide open free press in the run up to the invasion of Iraq there was little criticism and questions.

When General Shinseki complained he did not have enough resources for a post war occupation Rumsfeld fired him.

But he didn't fall out of a window or die in an assassination. Yes, humans can be idiots but in China and Russia there is systematic elimination of dissent. Call it artificial selection but those who disagree the loudest get hammered day in and day out, year in and year out. There is no comparison.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

A Russian general accidently admitted that yes, Ukraine is really just a stepping stone to invading more Eastern European countries:

Russian general admits Ukraine just a "stepping stone" to invade Europe

Ukraine "is only the beginning," Colonel-General Andrey Mordvichev warned in a recent interview.

www.newsweek.com

The Russians aren't going to stop. We need to continue supporting Ukraine. Furthermore, we need to boost up NATO further, stress more weapons development, more military training, more defensive measures in Europe. Russia wants more...

Appeasement never works. Assuming you are able to you're always better off fighting such regimes at the first location.

 

[Patooka]

Russia is so desperate for "volunteers" for their invasion they had a human trafficking ring in Cuba of all places.

Cuba uncovers human trafficking of Cubans to fight for Russia in Ukraine

Cuba has uncovered a human trafficking ring that coerced its citizens to fight for Russia in the war in Ukraine, its foreign ministry said, adding that Cuban authorities were working to "neutralize and dismantle" the network.

www.reuters.com

I guess Putin is doubling down and trying to out pariah North Korea on the international stage. Good job Vlad.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Russia can work with that, and Ukraine will have to find

Dang!
To bad the country Elon Musk immigrated to hasn't got a "Commander in Chief", capable of making military decisions for the citizenry.
Tom

Don't you think George Bush jr blew this by going off on crusades to the Middle-East? Americans now being a hell of a lot less willing to die to defend freedom in the world? So perhaps it's not that Biden doesn't want to. It could be that he feels that he can't. The United States adventure in Afghanistan failed, not that long ago. Despite huge investments in manpower and money. Afghanistan just didn't have anyone to ally with that could lead the nation into a stable and uncorrupt future. Why would the Ukraine be any different? Both countries have been dysfunctional messes for over a century. Arguably even further back. There's nothing that suggests that Zelensky will bring Ukraine into a bright future of liberal democracy and a rule of law.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I think the point is that Russians and Chinese are as patriotic as we, the Brits, or the French are.

I think our foreign policy ignores the fact that when we harangue Russia or China over their becoming like a western state with our civil rights a large part of the Russian and Chinese population gets angry and more patriotic.

Even with our wide open free press in the run up to the invasion of Iraq there was little criticism and questions.

When General Shinseki complained he did not have enough resources for a post war occupation Rumsfeld fired him.

To stand by your country without consideration of right and wrong is not patriotism, it's nationalism. In the US we (do or did) more identify with our values as opposed to Russia or China which more identifies with blood and soil.

When Bush decided to go into Iraq the first question I asked was why? What changed from yesterday to today that we should now attack Iraq. My friend standing right beside me just shrugged and shook his head. I'll bet many asked this same question. But it was a rare time in the US. A time still fresh in our minds of an attack on our soil and much of our blood spilled. It was a time when nationalism could prevail. A time when evil could be perpetrated by our Executive office and legislators would sit silently for the sake of their jobs.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But the invasion of Iraq wasn't evil, it was the height of narcissism and indifference. The problem with Iraq was it was a vendetta against Hussein and then the Neocons ignored the advice of every analysts because they deluded themselves into thinking the world operated different for them.

Arguably it was worse than evil, as evil would at least have a plan, the neocons had no plan and then played CYA until near 2007.

 

[TV and credit cards]

ATACMS, should they be approved for transfer to Ukrainian forces would be of the cluster munition type and could arrive within a week's time.

Exclusive: Ukraine could get long-range missiles armed with US cluster bombs

The Biden administration is close to approving the shipment of longer-range missiles packed with cluster bombs to Ukraine, giving Kyiv the ability to cause significant damage deeper within Russian-occupied territory, according to four U.S. officials.

www.reuters.com

 

[steve_bank]

Maybe Barbos got sent to the front.

 

[ZiprHead]

Ukraine claims to retake Black Sea drilling rigs from Russian control

The four strategically important oil and gas platforms were seized by Russia in 2015.

www.bbc.com

 

[ZiprHead]

Video of the above...

 

[bilby]

Video of the above...

Please don't link to The Sun.

http://www.anfieldroad.com/dont-buy-the-sun/

I'm no supporter of Liverpool FC, but literally anyone with a shred of decency should support them in this ongoing boycott. Nothing in the way that rag covers "news" has changed in the last thirty four years to justify an end to this campaign.

 

[repoman]

Elon Musk and Starlink is like the plot of Iron Man 2.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Sevastopol Shipyard: Ukraine Confirms Attack on Russian Black Sea Fleet, Says Ship and Sub Damaged

A source in Ukraine’s Military Intelligence told Kyiv Post the operation was a success, adding: “Today it’s important to hit and damage these objects.”

www.kyivpost.com

Russia probably has a hard time with ship repairs under the best of conditions. If confirmed, hitting the yard, an amphibious assault ship, and a boat is a pretty good deal.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

When all else fails, beg somewhere else. Despite claims by Russian propaganda that things are going well, Russia and Putin are actually talking with North Korea of all nations for help with their freedom fight in Ukraine. Things are going so well, he is begging a small despot for help. Iran apparently wasn't enough. Of course, North Korea is so desperate themselves, they'll like provide a bunch of stuff for food or images of people next to food. A match made in heaven? Well a perverted one.

North Korea is believed to have a large stockpile of dated artillery shells and rockets that would be compatible with Soviet and Russian weapons systems used in Ukraine, as well as a production capacity that would help Russia maintain its high ammunition burn rate as the Kremlin seeks to scale up domestic production.

Russia used up to 11 million shells in Ukraine last year, according to recent Western estimates, and is set to fire 7 million more rounds this year, said Jack Watling, senior research fellow for land warfare at the Royal United Services Institute, a British think tank.

While we all know this is western propaganda and can't possibly be true, the fact that Putin is meeting with Kim really should be understood to be nothing but utter desperation.