How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jimmy Higgins]

Bullshit! Like the leadership in Ukraine will be allowed to stay around

Of course they would have to run somewhere. I am talking about territories which neutral Ukraine with new government will be allowed to keep.

"Neutral"... that's a funny word. "Neutral" Ukraine is like saying Kevin McCarthy is a moderate. And "be allowed to keep"? Yeah... I can't imagine why Ukraine isn't just scrambling to take that deal.

All current regime people would have to leave Ukraine.

So Russia absorbs most of Ukraine, and the remainder becomes a puppet state, then annexation. So maybe more like Belarus 1.5.

Why are you talking to us like we are fucking stupid and can't see through what aren't even viably veiled disingenuous prerogatives?

 

[barbos]

So Russia absorbs most of Ukraine, and the remainder becomes a puppet state, then annexation

Mmm.... no, I told you already, there are 2 options.
Eastern and southern Ukraine which is not most of Ukraine goes to Russia in both cases.
Western Ukraine does not go to Russia in both cases.
So the question is Kiev (Central Ukraine).
First option: it stays (along with Western Ukraine) independent but neutral, EU can have it, but no NATO and in fact no real Army.
Second option: Kiev goes back to Russia, but Western Ukraine goes to NATO, you can do with it whatever you want.

You need to understand that Ukraine consisted of 3 parts. Western Ukraine, Central Ukraine and Eastern/Southern Ukraine.
First part is effectively Poland, even so there are no native poles there anymore.
Second part is Russian Ukraine which has always been fine with their status.
Third part is Russia.

All the nazi shit we have ultimately comes from Western Ukraine. It was a Stalin's mistake to take it from Poland.

 

[Harry Bosch]

So Russia absorbs most of Ukraine, and the remainder becomes a puppet state, then annexation

Mmm.... no, I told you already, there are 2 options.
Eastern and southern Ukraine which is not most of Ukraine goes to Russia in both cases.
Western Ukraine does not go to Russia in both cases.
So the question is Kiev (Central Ukraine).
First option: it stays (along with Western Ukraine) independent but neutral, EU can have it, but no NATO and in fact no real Army.
Second option: Kiev goes back to Russia, but Western Ukraine goes to NATO, you can do with it whatever you want.

Ha ha! That's just preposterous! What possible reason would Ukraine agree to the above!? They would be completely defensive against a brutal Russian imperialist power. Your side would invade them and do whatever you want. The only possible lasting peace solution is an agreement; and then western powers directly in Ukraine enforcing borders. Your side can't be trusted.

 

[barbos]

And the reason why Western Ukraine have a nazi problem is because:
They were part of Poland and did not like it. So then Hitler happened. USSR took them and attached to the rest of Russian Ukraine. Western Ukrainians did not like it either.
Then Hitler invaded and used these assholes against USSR, hence ukrainian nazis killing everyone - jews, poles, russians, slovaks . After the war a lot of them went to ...... Canada. The rest went to prisons or died fighting NKVD. Then Stalin died and idiot Khrushhev (or someone else) released that nazi scum back into Western Ukraine instead of letting them rot in prison.
And now Trudeau government is in deep shit because these imbeciles could not master the history of Ukraine and WW2.

PS: And Hitler himself is a result of British/French idiocy after WW1. I think even you know that.

 

[barbos]

What possible reason would Ukraine agree to the above!?

Having no army left?

 

[barbos]

I actually disagree with Alex Christoforou. He thinks that canadian idiot(s) who invited a nazi into Parliament must had known what they were doing. I really think they had no clue, politicians are just that ignorant. You people here are an illustration of that too.
On the other hand, Zelensky would had known, but he was not aware of the plan. Add to that drug use.

It's a mess.

 

[barbos]

They would be completely defensive against a brutal Russian imperialist power.

Are you aware that Eastern Ukraine wanted to follow Crimea and join Russia in 2014 but Putin said no. And public opinion did not want it either. Do you know why?

It took 8 years for Putin to change his mind and finally "imperialize" them. If he is an imperialist then he is extremely reluctant/slow one at that.

 

[SLD]

If they surrender they will definitely lose Odessa, Harkov. If not they will lose Kiev.

Good luck with that! Right now your forces can’t even hold the line around zaporizhzhia. But hey, any day now you’re going to take Odessa. Soon as you figure out how to cross a River.

 

[barbos]

If they surrender they will definitely lose Odessa, Harkov. If not they will lose Kiev.

Good luck with that! Right now your forces can’t even hold the line around zaporizhzhia. But hey, any day now you’re going to take Odessa. Soon as you figure out how to cross a River.

Sure, If you believe Kiev Regime propaganda. But I have to tell you, that even Ukro-Regime people are becoming less optimistic about their prospects.

Meanwhile, Poland is preparing for ....... extradition of canadian nazi
I think it's great.

 

[barbos]

Poland demands resignation of the Head of Canadian Parliament over this nazi in the parliament incident

And the speaker of the Canadian Parliament resigns. The Elensky Curse continues!

 

[Elixir]

Of course Putin wanted to quietly absorb the entirety of Ukraine. It was only after his willing puppet got ousted and his American stooge’s coup failed, that he was left with the east option of simply seizing the country in three short days, for which he would be hailed as a welcome hero.

@barbos your leader is an incompetent kleptocratic murderer. But there’s nothing you can do about that. There never is. That’s a defining feature of Russians. Despot after despot after despot, interrupted occasionally and briefly by semi-rationalists …

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Poland demands resignation of the Head of Canadian Parliament over this nazi in the parliament incident

And the speaker of the Canadian Parliament resigns. The Elensky Curse continues!

At least he didn't fall out of a window in a high building.

 

[SLD]

If they surrender they will definitely lose Odessa, Harkov. If not they will lose Kiev.

Good luck with that! Right now your forces can’t even hold the line around zaporizhzhia. But hey, any day now you’re going to take Odessa. Soon as you figure out how to cross a River.

Sure, If you believe Kiev Regime propaganda. But I have to tell you, that even Ukro-Regime people are becoming less optimistic about their prospects.

So you have captured Kiev? or come close?

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

What possible reason would Ukraine agree to the above!?

Having no army left?

It is beginning to look like Russia will run out of army first. The Ukraine - Russia kill ratio is 5 to 1. Ukraine, which has no navy, is destroying the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

 

[DrZoidberg]

So Russia absorbs most of Ukraine, and the remainder becomes a puppet state, then annexation

Mmm.... no, I told you already, there are 2 options.
Eastern and southern Ukraine which is not most of Ukraine goes to Russia in both cases.
Western Ukraine does not go to Russia in both cases.
So the question is Kiev (Central Ukraine).
First option: it stays (along with Western Ukraine) independent but neutral, EU can have it, but no NATO and in fact no real Army.
Second option: Kiev goes back to Russia, but Western Ukraine goes to NATO, you can do with it whatever you want.

You need to understand that Ukraine consisted of 3 parts. Western Ukraine, Central Ukraine and Eastern/Southern Ukraine.
First part is effectively Poland, even so there are no native poles there anymore.
Second part is Russian Ukraine which has always been fine with their status.
Third part is Russia.

All the nazi shit we have ultimately comes from Western Ukraine. It was a Stalin's mistake to take it from Poland.

I don't think that is a realistic option. If we (the International community) give Putin anything, he'll just keep going. I think the current war is because we did nothing when Russia grabbed Crimea.

I think it's important to roll the border all the way back, including repatriating Crimea to Ukraine.

If we don't, Pugin will just keep going. And Russia isn't the country I am most worried about right now. Its China. If we give Putin anything, that will likely embolden China. We do NOT want that happening.

I think the best way to maintain peace in the world is to aggressively and decisively deal with any threat to the stability of the world and its borders. I think, where the borders go, are less important than that they are treated as sacred

 

[DrZoidberg]

What possible reason would Ukraine agree to the above!?

Having no army left?

It is beginning to look like Russia will run out of army first. The Ukraine - Russia kill ratio is 5 to 1. Ukraine, which has no navy, is destroying the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

Battle fatigue is a thing. Just staying alive is great for a soldier. But it's also important for those soldiers to operate at peak efficiency.

Here's findings from WW2:

"John Appel found that the average American infantryman in Italy was "worn out" in 200 to 240 days and concluded that the American soldier "fights for his buddies or because his self respect won't let him quit". After several months in combat, the soldier lacked reasons to continue to fight because he had proven his bravery in battle and was no longer with most of the fellow soldiers he trained with.[8] Appel helped implement a 180-day limit for soldiers in active combat[9] "

Ukraine immediately put everything they got up against Russia. No new troops are coming. NATO seems reluctant to get involved. While Russia keeps getting fresh meat to the grinder all the time.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Russian troops keep getting sent to the front with poor training, inadequate weapons and ammo, inadequare supplies and food and good leadership. Winter is coming. Cold weather kills poorly supplied troops. Sitting in a stinking trench starving and freezing to death is going to be hard on the Russian mobiks by December.

 

[bilby]

If they surrender they will definitely lose Odessa, Harkov. If not they will lose Kiev.

If Russia had the military capability to take Kyiv, they would have done so eighteen months ago. When they instead got utterly humiliated, and proved that the feared Russian military machine was in fact a clapped out piece of shit that couldn't even win when making a surprise attack against a second rate opponent.

At this point, Russia threatening to take Kyiv is about as credible as them threatening to take Washington DC.

Nobody's frightened of you anymore, because your bluff has been well and truly called.

Putin fucked up massively, and has lost a bargaining position that a savvy politician could have leveraged into real benefits for his nation and its people. What a loser.

 

[bilby]

I think the best way to maintain peace in the world is to aggressively and decisively deal with any threat to the stability of the world and its borders. I think, where the borders go, are less important than that they are treated as sacred

I agree that no borders should be allowed to move due to military force or aggression.

But if a supermajority of residents in an area want to move into a different country, or form a country of their own, that should take priority over any sacrosanct border.

What's really needed is an international body like the UN, but without the anachronistic veto powers of the permanent members of the security council, and with some serious military muscle to enforce its resolutions.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Russian troops keep getting sent to the front with poor training, inadequate weapons and ammo, inadequare supplies and food and good leadership. Winter is coming. Cold weather kills poorly supplied troops. Sitting in a stinking trench starving and freezing to death is going to be hard on the Russian mobiks by December.

If Russia has these problem's how won't Ukraine's army have exactly the same problems?

I also think that the Russian army is better supplied when it comes to ammo. Ukraine just has more fancy and cool NATO toys. But a huge problem of NATO is that nothing is standardised. It doesn't really matter how awesome weapon you have if you only have the wrong ammo for it. The USSR made sure all their weapons were standardised. That's one reason they beat Germany in WW2. Germany focused on building fancy stuff. USSR beat them by massproducing standardised good-enough and standardised weapons.

Why would either army have a shortage of food? Why would either army have a shortage of warm clothing?