How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

I take it from your response you are now back tracking on your claim

I don't really give a fuck either way, But I have seen these maps, and so can you.

 

[barbos]

West Coast Sour Diesel. What's it to you?

Must be some good shit. And no, it means nothing to me, never smoked anything in my life.

 

[steve_bank]

The Russian losses were high enough that Putin had to resort to conscription.

Total BS.
First, not conscription, but mobilization. Secondly, how many times one has to repeat that initial force was too small to take Kiev?
Once it was established that Kiev regime choose to fight and assembled an army bigger than what Russia had there, Russia did the same.

In other words Putin fucked up, right? He got a bigger army and still can not take Ukraine. All hyat he can do is try and destroy Ukraine with missiles.

Terror bombing of London by Hitler did not work, terror bombing will not work for Putin.

He probably understands that, but he can not back down and stay in power.

The Russians in Brighton Beach are being oppressed by the New York City Nazis, Putin should invade New York.

 

[steve_bank]

What does an educated person say about Stalin's pact with Hitler?

He would say that Munich pact preceded that.
In other words, you were not any better than Stalin. In fact Stalin was better because he offered help to Czechoslovakia.
Stalin was a piece of work but he was not mad Empire building expansionist as Hitler.

Yes, Stain helped the Czechs, he held himself bu occupying it.

After the Soviets collapsed former Soviet client states opted for NATO and the EU. No coercion, they rejected Russia.

The war and threats against Norway ads Sweden made by Putin turned them from neutral to

NATO.

Who are the 30 members in NATO?
NATO Countries 2023 List, Map, Members, Names, Full Form
Currently, there are 30 member countries of NATO namely Albania, Bulgaria, Belgium, Croatia, Canada, Denmark, France, Greece, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Latvia, Germany, Hungary, Lithuania, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Romania, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, ...Aug 22, 2023

What are the 28 EU countries?
The EU countries are: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Republic of Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain and Sweden.

Out is making Russia irrelevant. You are дурак and Putin is врун.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's fun to see Barbos desperately trying to spin everything to Russia's advantage. I think it's an excellent excercise. In science and philosophy, in order to figure out if we're correct about an hypothesis, we assume the opposite and try to prove our hypothesis wrong. I think Barbos is providing a valuable service to all the Ukraine fanboys. Everybody only talking in their fanboy bubble will get dumber.

Barbos' posts are only strengthening the beliefs I already had. Which is nice. Barbos has managed to convince me, more than before, that Putin is nothing buy a loony dictator living an old imperialistic dream. Putin is right that the west is self serving and will always see the east a a scary threat. For racist and xenophobic reasons. But that doesn't make Putin less of a tinpot dictator. It doesn't justify the war in Ukraine. I don't think anything can do that. And Putin's claim that Ukraine is part of the Russian nation and therefore this is an internal affair, is retarded. Of course that's nonsense.

 

[Elixir]

Barbos has managed to convince me, more than before, that Putin is nothing buy a loony dictator living an old imperialistic dream.

I am flabbergasted that it took babs to convince you of that.

 

[steve_bank]

Putin ad Russia is the same old Russia going back to Stalin.

Shoe-banging incident - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The shoe-banging incident occurred when Nikita Khrushchev, First Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, pounded his shoe on his delegate-desk in protest at a speech by Philippine delegate Lorenzo Sumulong during the 902nd Plenary Meeting of the United Nations General Assembly held in New York City on 12 October 1960.[1][2][dead link][3]

In 2003, American scholar William Taubman reported that he had interviewed some eyewitnesses who said that Khrushchev had brandished his shoe but not banged it. He also reported that no photographic or video records of the shoe-banging had been found.[4] However, in his biography of Khrushchev, he wrote that he accepted that the shoe-banging had occurred.[5] There is at least one fake photograph, where a shoe was added into an existing photograph.[6][dead link]
escription of incident
The often used fake image of Khrushchev waving a shoe (above), and the original photo taken at the United Nations General Assembly, 10 October 1960, AP archives (below)[7][8][9][10][11]

On 12 October 1960, head of the Filipino delegation Lorenzo Sumulong referred to "the peoples of Eastern Europe and elsewhere which have been deprived of the free exercise of their civil and political rights and which have been swallowed up, so to speak, by the Soviet Union".[12] Upon hearing this, Khrushchev quickly came to the rostrum, being recognized on a point of order. There he demonstratively, in a theatrical manner, brushed Sumulong aside, with an upward motion of his right arm—without physically touching him—and began a lengthy denunciation of Sumulong, branding him (among other things) as "a jerk, a stooge, and a lackey", and a "toady of American imperialism"[13] and demanded Assembly President Frederick Boland (Ireland) call Sumulong to order. Boland did caution Sumulong to "avoid wandering out into an argument which is certain to provoke further interventions", but permitted him to continue speaking and sent Khrushchev back to his seat.[citation needed]

According to some sources, Khrushchev pounded his fists on his desk in protest as Sumulong continued to speak, and at one point picked up his shoe and banged the desk with it.[14] Some other sources report a different order of events: Khrushchev first banged the shoe then went to the rostrum to protest.[15] Sumulong's speech was again interrupted. Another point of order was raised by the highly agitated Romanian Foreign Vice-minister Eduard Mezincescu, a member of the Eastern Bloc. Mezincescu gave his own angry denunciation of Sumulong and then turned his anger on Boland, his provoking, insulting, and ignoring of the Assembly President leading to his microphone being eventually shut off. This prompted a chorus of shouts and jeers from the Eastern Bloc delegations. The chaotic scene finally ended when Boland, crimson-faced with frustration, abruptly declared the meeting adjourned and slammed his gavel, named Thor's gavel, down so hard he broke it, sending the head flying. On observing the shoe-banging, British Prime Minister Harold Macmillan is said to have quipped "May we have a translation of that please?"[16]

This incident was reported at the time by a number of newspapers, including The New York Times,[17] The Washington Post,[18] The Guardian,[19] The Times,[20] and Le Monde.[21] The New York Times had a photo that pictured Khrushchev and Andrei Gromyko, with a shoe on Khrushchev's desk.[22]

Barbos says he is culturally American.

American culture not exclusively to me is

1. A free press that can investigate and report on government without restraint or fear.
2. Free speech, citizens are free to protest, criticize, and openly oppose government.
3. Democrat processes not bounded by government.
4. Independent judiciaries and rule of law not subject to arbitrary government intrusion.
5. Self determination.
6. Diversity of political views, religious views, philosophical views, and ethnicity.

The invasion of Ukraine is the old Soviet communist play book. In the Ukraine areas controlled by Russia take military control, round up opposition, shot down the free press, install a local Russian puppet mayor or governor, have a fraudulent election, and declare it 'free'.

Ukraine ousted the pro Russian leader and decided to make ties with Europe. Self determination.

I remEMber the videos of Russian tanks in Poland during the Gadansk shipyard protests.

Gdańsk Shipyard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Gdańsk Shipyard (Polish: Stocznia Gdańska, formerly Lenin Shipyard) is a large Polish shipyard, located in the city of Gdańsk. The yard gained international fame when Solidarity (Solidarność) was founded there in September 1980. It is situated on the western side of Martwa Wisła and on Ostrów Island.

7. The right for labor to organize and collective bargaining.

How did the Polish government respond to the Solidarność movement?
The government attempted to destroy the union with the martial law of 1981 and several years of repression, but in the end it had to start negotiating with the union. Roundtable Talks between the government and Solidarity-led opposition led to semi-free elections in 1989.

 

[Tigers!]

Once it was established that Kiev regime choose to fight and assembled an army bigger than what Russia had there, Russia did the same.

But why did Russia have an army (size irrelevant) on the outskirts of Kyiv that was not invited there? Otherwise the Ukrainian government would have chosen not to fight

 

[DrZoidberg]

Barbos has managed to convince me, more than before, that Putin is nothing buy a loony dictator living an old imperialistic dream.

I am flabbergasted that it took babs to convince you of that.

I hadn't delved into the pro-Putin universe until Barbos came along.

It's always extremely informative to listen in on a conversation between fanboys. So much unfiltered and unquestioned stupidity

 

[Tigers!]

But not to crimeans or .....

In English criminals is spelt as 'criminals' not crimeans.

I would be happy to proof read your ramblings before you post them.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Ukraine's strike on Sevastopol naval base has forced Russia to move their ships to safer waters. Recent satellite pics show multiple Russian navy ships leaving for Novorossiysk.
Russia strikes a village grocery store midday killing fifty people.

Fucking western media, huh?

 

[TomC]

I hadn't delved into the pro-Putin universe until Barbos came along.

It's always extremely informative to listen in on a conversation between fanboys. So much unfiltered and unquestioned stupidity

I wish barbos was unusual, but he's not. He's more the norm.

My dad firmly believed the crap spewing from the semi-official news source, Fox, in the lead up to the Bush Invasion of Iraq. There are currently millions of Americans who believe that Trump won the 2020 election.
And that's just amongst people I know extremely well.
Barbos is the human norm, not an outlier.
Tom

 

[Tigers!]

Ukraine's strike on Sevastopol naval base has forced Russia to move their ships to safer waters. Recent satellite pics show multiple Russian navy ships leaving for Novorossiysk.
Russia strikes a village grocery store midday killing fifty people.

Fucking western media, huh?

The strike on the grocery store was merely meant to cover the withdrawal of the ships (wasn't it)?

 

[SLD]

For you, Barbos. Since this pic was banned in Russia.

 

[SLD]

A T-90 gets hit.

 

[DrZoidberg]

This weekend I went hiking with a group of friends. One of us is an ex-commando soldier and now an officer in the strategic staff of Seeden.

We talked about the Ukraine war. He said "every NATO country is extremely involved in the Ukraine war. The only thing we're not doing is holding the weapons when they go bang".

Sweden is flying as many spy drones over Russia as they can, reporting to Ukraine.

Ukraine soldiers are routinely being cycled to UK for 5-week training, where they get new fancy toys and training on how to use them.

So basically, this is a proxy war between Russia and NATO.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

This weekend I went hiking with a group of friends. One of us is an ex-commando soldier and now an officer in the strategic staff of Seeden.

We talked about the Ukraine war. He said "every NATO country is extremely involved in the Ukraine war. The only thing we're not doing is holding the weapons when they go bang".

Sweden is flying as many spy drones over Russia as they can, reporting to Ukraine.

Ukraine soldiers are routinely being cycled to UK for 5-week training, where they get new fancy toys and training on how to use them.

So basically, this is a proxy war between Russia and NATO.

It's a war between democratic freedom and dictatorship.

 

[DrZoidberg]

This weekend I went hiking with a group of friends. One of us is an ex-commando soldier and now an officer in the strategic staff of Seeden.

We talked about the Ukraine war. He said "every NATO country is extremely involved in the Ukraine war. The only thing we're not doing is holding the weapons when they go bang".

Sweden is flying as many spy drones over Russia as they can, reporting to Ukraine.

Ukraine soldiers are routinely being cycled to UK for 5-week training, where they get new fancy toys and training on how to use them.

So basically, this is a proxy war between Russia and NATO.

It's a war between democratic freedom and dictatorship.

Is it? Are you sure Ukraine qualifies as a free democracy?

I think it's a war to contain Russian aggression. And nothing else. I don't think NATO is fighting for anything. Only against something. After a Ukraine win, there's no guarantees Ukraine will become a modern healthy free democracy

 

[Harry Bosch]

This weekend I went hiking with a group of friends. One of us is an ex-commando soldier and now an officer in the strategic staff of Seeden.

We talked about the Ukraine war. He said "every NATO country is extremely involved in the Ukraine war. The only thing we're not doing is holding the weapons when they go bang".

Sweden is flying as many spy drones over Russia as they can, reporting to Ukraine.

Ukraine soldiers are routinely being cycled to UK for 5-week training, where they get new fancy toys and training on how to use them.

So basically, this is a proxy war between Russia and NATO.

It's a war between democratic freedom and dictatorship.

Agreed. It's not very surprising in the least that other countries are rallying around Ukraine. The only way for smaller countries to remain free is to band together against bigger countries. Russia is a bully. They talk all the time of their target: Poland, Baltics, Modelva, Finland and yes, even Sweden.

 

[Harry Bosch]

This weekend I went hiking with a group of friends. One of us is an ex-commando soldier and now an officer in the strategic staff of Seeden.

We talked about the Ukraine war. He said "every NATO country is extremely involved in the Ukraine war. The only thing we're not doing is holding the weapons when they go bang".

Sweden is flying as many spy drones over Russia as they can, reporting to Ukraine.

Ukraine soldiers are routinely being cycled to UK for 5-week training, where they get new fancy toys and training on how to use them.

So basically, this is a proxy war between Russia and NATO.

It's a war between democratic freedom and dictatorship.

Is it? Are you sure Ukraine qualifies as a free democracy?

I think it's a war to contain Russian aggression. And nothing else. I don't think NATO is fighting for anything. Only against something. After a Ukraine win, there's no guarantees Ukraine will become a modern healthy free democracy

How would they not qualify for a democracy? Are you doubting the last three free elections that they had? And secondly, if the Eastern European countries (including Sweden) want freedom, they should support Ukraine.