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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

lpetrich said:
Also among ex-Soviet republics,

Armenians throng center of the capital to demand the prime minister's resignation | AP News
and
Protests shut streets in Armenia's capital, roads in other parts to demand the prime minister resign | AP News

Because of Armenia and Azerbaijan move closer to normalizing ties as the first border marker goes up | AP News
Armenia and Azerbaijan on Tuesday came a step closer toward normalizing relations after a bitter conflict over territory, as experts in both countries worked to demarcate their boundaries and the first border marker was placed.

The two nations are working toward a peace treaty after Azerbaijan regained full control of the Karabakh province that had been under the control of ethnic Armenian forces since the 1990s. A six-week war in 2020 resulted in Azerbaijan retaking large parts of the breakaway region, and in September 2023, Azerbaijani forces launched a lighting blitz that forced Karabakh’s Armenian authorities to capitulate in negotiations mediated by Russian forces.

Several days ago, Armenia and Azerbaijan reached an agreement over a stretch of border that would cut though four Armenian villages in the Tavush province, meaning that Armenia would cede some territory to Azerbaijan.
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Some 100,000 ethnic Armenians fled Nagorno-Karabakh / Artsakh, going to Armenia.

Earlier,
Pashinian Says Armenia Freezes Membership In Russian-Led Security Alliance
Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinian has said his country has frozen its membership in the Russian-led Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) as Yerevan continues to distance itself from Moscow amid a souring of bilateral relations.
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Why no mention of Georgia?
Here, just for you:

 
aupmanyav said:
Harry Bosch said:
Do you really think that Russia would honor any cease fire? You really think that Russia would be satisfied by only the land that they currently occupy in Ukraine? Puter wants all of Ukraine and probably significantly more in Eastern Europe. The world's best chance to stop Russian imperialism is in Ukraine. The Ukrainians are willing to fight (they have no choice really). I'm sure that Ukraine and Russia have been unofficially talking for many months about a peace agreement. But Russia does not really want peace. Just ask Barbos.
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I do not know Putin's mind, other than the fact that Ukraine sided with West and NATO. That rankled him.
TV and credit cards said:
To what degree do you think China will support Russia? The more China supports Russia the more economic pressure will be put on it by Western nations and the more foreign companies will be reluctant to invest further in China. To a certain degree this is happening now, many companies are skittish about further investments in China. Unless Xi isn't looking at this through an economic lens. But its been my observation that China's dealing with other countries has been largely transactional. I don't see where China openly and militarily supporting Russia taking any part of Ukraine is in its interest.
Right now Chinese companies are taking advantage and getting away with selling dual purpose products to Russia. Most major Chinese banks will not process Russian transactions for fear of sanctions from the West.
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I do not know Xi's mind as well. But his intent about Taiwan and his support to North Korea means that he is a dangerous guy. Like a spider, he is spreading his net everywhere.
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Of course you don't. Neither do I. But no one gets a blank slate here. We look at their history and make a judgement call based on that. Suffice to say there are probably at least two Western governments who do the best they can to know the mind of these two autocrats. I'm inclined to trust their collective judgement over any one individual's opinion. For all their problems, they are our best bet for surviving the future.
 
Elixir said:
Might want to re-think that.
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Ah, we got Rafales too and pay them cash. We get things from wherever they are available and produce whatever we can.
Elixir said:
The Ukranians are begging for what you call interference, and we call helping them defend democracy against tyranny AT THEIR DESPERATE REQUEST because they are being subjected to genocide.
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Very kind of Western nations to help with armaments for further destruction of the country though it is beneficial to the companies which produce armaments.
Keep it up, your countries are not being attacked, you have not sent your soldiers to help Ukraine. You won't do that.
 
barbos said:
Harry Bosch said:
bilby said:
Harry Bosch said:
Puter wants all of Ukraine and probably significantly more in Eastern Europe.
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Puter wants the Soviet Union back. The whole shitty mess is driven by one man's pathetic nostalgia for the 1970s and '80s.
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Yep. Barbos (and other Russians that I know) are super conflicted on this. He has admitted Putler goals many times. But then he sometimes will say that Russians only want Ukraine. Then other times, Russians would be content with the land that they've conquered as of today, then they'll stop.
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That's bullshit. Nobody wanted Ukraine even after Nazi revolt of 2014. People were saying "We have oil-gas and growing economy, what do we need this dead weight for?" Reintegration of these regions would have been difficult. Their coal in particular is not needed in Russia because it's more expensive. Plus ukro-nazis, Eastern Ukraine is majority russian but unlike Crimea they have noticeable number of ukro-nazis. So sentiment was let see and wait for Ukraine coming to their senses. They did not and sentiment now is we need to end this experiment and take whole Ukraine.

Having said that, what is wrong with having better verison of Soviet Union now?
How is that YOUR business that some of the former USSR republics want to have something back?
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They don't want "something back"! They don't want to be conquered by your drunken troopers! My "business" is twofold. First off, I'm against imperialism. Including American imperialism. I was against the war in Iraq. Secondly, I have inlaws who live about 11 miles from the Ukranian border in Poland.
 
TV and credit cards said:
I'm inclined to trust their collective judgement over any one individual's opinion. For all their problems, they are our best bet for surviving the future.
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We too listen to what is being said in the world. At the moment there is nothing in which we can help.
Ukranians too need to think for themselves. Are they happy with continuing the war or has it been enough? Then perhaps Modi can talk to Putin.
Same with Hamas, Yemenies and Iranians. Want war or peace? Then perhaps Modi can talk to Benjamin.
 
aupmanyav said:
TV and credit cards said:
I'm inclined to trust their collective judgement over any one individual's opinion. For all their problems, they are our best bet for surviving the future.
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We too listen to what is being said in the world. At the moment there is nothing in which we can help.
Ukranians too need to think for themselves. Are they happy with continuing the war or has it been enough? Then perhaps Modi can talk to Putin.
Same with Hamas, Yemenies and Iranians. Want war or peace? Then perhaps Modi can talk to Benjamin.
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Again, you make this odd assumption that Ukrainians have the ability to stop the war. Do you think that they enjoy dying? Sending their young people to be killed? When the Russians take land from Ukraine, they rape their women, steal their children, and loot everything that they can get their hands on. Do you understand why Ukrainians are motivated to stop this? If Russia were to invade India, your people would feel the exact same way. Anyone would.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
Harry Bosch said:
Do you understand why Ukrainians are motivated to stop this? If Russia were to invade India, your people would feel the exact same way. Anyone would.
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Apparently not anyone...
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I don't agree. His country has not been invaded. It's very easy to criticize a country with its back against a corner when one is safe and secure. I'll bet a camping trip in my mini motorhome with my mother-in-law that my young friend aupanyay that he'd feel the exact same way if his country were invaded.
 
aupmanyav said:
SLD said:
Every gallon of gas you buy goes to killing Ukrainians.
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EU countries Austria, Slovakia and Hungary buy gas from Gazprom.
ZiprHead said:
So... ? What Ukraine does is none of Russia's business.
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So... ? How is what Russia doing in Ukraine is the business of NATO countries? NATO has refused membership to Ukraine. Then why are they interfering?
Nobody has bathed in milk (Indian proverb).
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People tend to want to help their friends when they are in need. But you do you.
 
Harry Bosch said:
Again, you make this odd assumption that Ukrainians have the ability to stop the war.
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Actually they still can, all they need is to overthrow current regime in Kiev.
Georgians did exactly that, and look at them now, economy is booming and Russia has not invaded them yet.
 
aupmanyav said:
SLD said:
Every gallon of gas you buy goes to killing Ukrainians.
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EU countries Austria, Slovakia and Hungary buy gas from Gazprom.
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No shit. They shouldn’t either. But you ignored the rest of my post. You are not being neutral here. You are supporting a murderous fascist regime that is violating international law. And it will come back to bite you. War is dangerous. As Putin is finding out, it’s not so simple and cannot be contained sometimes and can spread well beyond his intentions. A global WWIII could be kicked off and destroy the entire global economy and India’s along with it. You are extremely short sighted. Boycott Russia now. Tell Modi you’d gladly pay more for gas now for a stronger world economy in the future and peace.
 
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