How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[ZiprHead]

We all saw and heard them.

Care to provide links to what you saw and heard

They've already been posted here.

 

[ZiprHead]

It's not Ukrainian troops on Russian territory. It's Russians in Ukraine. If those troops would go back to Russia we wouldn't have a problem anymore.

Actually it's Russian troops on Russian territory. They voted to leave the mistake called Ukraine and went back to Russia.
NATO supported galician nazi terrorists are occupiers in Ukraine.

Can I have some of what you are smoking?

 

[Elixir]

NATO supported galician nazi terrorists

More made-up phony labels to prop up your made up phony assertions.

 

[ZiprHead]

US Monitoring Potential Deployment of N. Korean Troops in Ukraine

The US government is closely monitoring the potential deployment of North Korean troops in Ukraine to aid the Russian military.

www.thedefensepost.com

The US government is closely monitoring the potential deployment of North Korean troops in Ukraine to aid the Russian military.

This comes amid reports that Pyongyang is planning to send military engineering units to Russian-occupied territories for rebuilding work.

These units were previously deployed in China and are often disguised as construction workers, according to an unnamed South Korean official.

North Korean troops could reportedly arrive in Ukraine “as early as next month.”

Apart from Washington, the South Korean foreign ministry said it is also watching for any signs of North Korean troop involvement in the ongoing war.

Running out of Russians?

 

[Elixir]

US Monitoring Potential Deployment of N. Korean Troops in Ukraine

The US government is closely monitoring the potential deployment of North Korean troops in Ukraine to aid the Russian military.

www.thedefensepost.com

Apart from Washington, the South Korean foreign ministry said it is also watching for any signs of North Korean troop involvement in the ongoing war.

Running out of Russians?

Surplus of North Koreans.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And we focus too much on standardization.

You cannot focus too much on standardisation. Standardisation has been a winning strategy, not just in war, but also in commerce and industry, since forever.

Standardised interfaces are just a tiny part of that process.

There comes a point where standardizing things ends up stifling improvement.

Or look at what happened with the F-35--the focus on having one aircraft to do it all means it's not good at any of it's jobs. And because it's intended for naval operation it imposes the drawbacks of naval aviation on land based aircraft. It's good enough if pitted against 4th gen aircraft, but it's not going to fare too well on a 5th gen battlefield when our opponents field them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem with Russia is salami tactics. Nuclear deterrence requires a clear and unequivocal "red line" that triggers an overwheming, even if suicidal, response. If a belligerent is careful to only ever make incremental changes, allowing them to become the new normal before taking another step forward, it makes nuclear forces irrelevant.

Russia has an advantage in that to Russian leadership human casualties are unimportant. That's not something new but is simply the only way Russia has ever considered its combatants. Countries in the west value the person. Russia does not value the person and never has. Russia in practice has always been a monarchy and still operates like a monarchy today. Modern Russia likely could not survive a single day of free speech and freedom of the press.

I've been saying this for years.

Real military budgets are in dollars and lives.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The people he's made it clear he wants to genocide?

Does "Holodomor" mean anything to you?

People say many things just for effect. They can change from what they have said. Yes, I checked about Holodomor (Wikipedia always obliges).

Are you saying it didn't happen?

Or are you saying that Putin's apparently genocidal behavior in Ukraine isn't real?

Or are you saying that if they give up he will quit his attempts at genocide?

 

[barbos]

It's not Ukrainian troops on Russian territory. It's Russians in Ukraine. If those troops would go back to Russia we wouldn't have a problem anymore.

Actually it's Russian troops on Russian territory. They voted to leave the mistake called Ukraine and went back to Russia.
NATO supported galician nazi terrorists are occupiers in Ukraine.

Can I have some of what you are smoking?

I don't smoke, don't take any drugs, don't drink.
Yes, they voted and now are part of Russia. And galician army are the invaders there. They have never had any business being there in the first place. Russia should have taken over all these territories in 1991.



.

 

[barbos]

The people he's made it clear he wants to genocide?

Does "Holodomor" mean anything to you?

People say many things just for effect. They can change from what they have said. Yes, I checked about Holodomor (Wikipedia always obliges).

Are you saying it didn't happen?

Or are you saying that Putin's apparently genocidal behavior in Ukraine isn't real?

Or are you saying that if they give up he will quit his attempts at genocide?

Yes, it's 100% US propaganda fabrication.

 

[barbos]

We all saw and heard them.

Care to provide links to what you saw and heard

They've already been posted here.

Then I surely destroyed all your arguments there.
Unlike you, I comment on everything you post.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

ATACMS Comes Out on Top Versus Russia’s S-500 Anti-Missile System

The duel in the skies above Crimea pitted 1990s-era US weapons against the Russian air defense platform Kremlin calls “the best in the world.”

www.kyivpost.com

And the Russians named this system Prometheus. Prometheus my ass.
I'll want more info than what appears in the Kyiv Post but this is humiliating. Russia's latest and greatest system. The missiles probably come out of the tubes all soft and wrinkly.
Fucking hell.

Actually, from that article we can't conclude the system is junk. Rather, we can conclude what we already know--SAM batteries are far from perfect. The Ukrainians obviously know approximately how good they are at picking off ATACMS missiles. Other than speed stuff like ATACMS is a sitting duck, easy to predict where it's going to be and guide an interceptor to that point. But the closing rate is going to be a few km/sec, you need an awful lot of accuracy. Not every missile will hit. And determining if you killed the missile isn't the easiest task, either--it's not like video games where dead enemies disappear. It was falling from the sky, it will continue to fall from the sky unless severely damaged. You have to assess the situation, figure out which missiles were killed and allocate another interceptor to the ones you didn't get the first time around. You do not get very many engagement cycles before the missiles hit. Depending on the value of what you're protecting you might fire more than one missile per inbound--a lot higher chance of killing it but at the expense of depleting your magazine faster as some of your missiles will end up going for dead targets.

Ukraine figures out what the system can stop and fires more rounds than that. And if we have any sense we will keep providing them because the economic ratio is highly in our favor.

For fuck's sake. This is Kiev Post article and it itself does not even justify its own title in the article itself.
All we know for sure that one of the terrorist rockets fell on the beech killing 2 kids.
Regime in Kiev are pathological liars.

Russian air defence has shown remarkable success rate against old crap like ATACMS. And it is in fact crap.
SCALP and its other variants are harder to shoot down. But Nazi Regime has run out of planes to launch them.

Your best missiles failed to take out rockets that are more than 20 years old. You got some which is what I would expect. And your lesser SAMs were apparently completely unable to hit them. ATACMS has nothing but speed and altitude to get through--basically, the Russian approach. Storm Shadow aka SCALP is more along the US approach--low and subsonic, but hard to see (especially if it can weave through terrain) and hard to hit.

 

[barbos]

Your best missiles failed to take out rockets that are more than 20 years old. You got some which is what I would expect. And your lesser SAMs were apparently completely unable to hit them. ATACMS has nothing but speed and altitude to get through--basically, the Russian approach. Storm Shadow aka SCALP is more along the US approach--low and subsonic, but hard to see (especially if it can weave through terrain) and hard to hit.

You are talking complete nonsense. Russian air defence is about 90% effective against ATACMS.
You are only able to reliably hit places which are not covered by Air Defence like beaches, murdering 2 year old babies.

You are talking utter nonsense.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It's not Ukrainian troops on Russian territory. It's Russians in Ukraine. If those troops would go back to Russia we wouldn't have a problem anymore.
He just needs to decide if he wants to stop being evil.

Russian troops are not going to go back unless the Russian concerns are addressed.

What Russian concerns? Russia is 100% of the problem

Arming Ukraine is not going to help Ukraine.

If we didn't Ukraine would have lost already. So you're clearly wrong

Russia will be forced to attack more extensively and use more deadly arms.

Forced? Who's forcing them?

 

[barbos]

Forced? Who's forcing them?

Public opinion.

 

[barbos]

What Russian concerns? Russia is 100% of the problem

No, you are 100% of the problem.

If we didn't Ukraine would have lost already. So you're clearly wrong

And that would be good for everyone including you.

 

[Patooka]

The notion that NATO wants war is bonkers.

In your opinion.

No. It's a well established fact. NATO could have just as easily said those S-300 that landed in Poland came from Russian launchers, and therefore initiating article 5. They could have done the same for the numerous cyber attacks in Europe that explicitly came from Russia. Article 7 of the NATO accords states very clearly the supremacy of UN resolutions so Putin blockading Ukrainian grain could have also been a legitimate reason. That NATO has done none of this is proof that they are not the aggressor and never have been. NATO has never expanded - more and more countries want to join on their own volition because Russia views treaties as toilet paper and can't go more than a couple of years without invading a neighbouring country under some bullshit pretext of "look what you made me do".

 

[barbos]

No. It's a well established fact. NATO could have just as easily said those S-300 that landed in Poland came from Russian launchers, and therefore initiating article 5.

Bullshit. NATO (really US) wants proxy war with Russia, not nuclear war.

 

[Patooka]

No. It's a well established fact. NATO could have just as easily said those S-300 that landed in Poland came from Russian launchers, and therefore initiating article 5.

Biullshit. NATO (really US) wants proxy war with Russia, not nuclear war.

False.

 

[barbos]

Putin blockading Ukrainian grain could have also been a legitimate reason.

No, it would not. Ukro-nazi used grain ships for weapon transport and even attacks on Crimean bridge.