How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[aupmanyav]

What you don't understand is that Ukraine has no choice but to fight.Russia has no desire for a peace with Ukraine. They want all of it. Ask Barbos. If Ukraine ceded territory now, and demilitarized, Russia would invade the rest of the country in a year or so. If you want a rules based world with peace, you'd favor helping Ukraine and all countries to fight off invaders.

That is the situation now. If Poroshenko and people were wiser and not starry eyed, this situation would not have arisen.
Well, Ukraine has not tried. They are depending upon arms supply from West and its acolytes. Who is talking about ceding the territory or demilitarization?
Which prophet says that Russia is interested in occupying the whole of Ukraine?
China has occupied part of Ladakh. We have not ceded the territory, we are talking.
The best help to Ukraine at the moment is to advise them to talk with Russia. Perhaps, together they can find a solution.
But West does not want that.

 

[aupmanyav]

You completely failed to address your point about entering into security alliances for protection.

Ukrainians completely failed to assess Russia's concerns about their relations with West and elected Poroshenko as their President in 2014. That is when the war started.

 

[Elixir]

Wut? Wait! Wasn’t 2014 when Russia violated the treaty they signed in 1999, and seized Crimea?
Why yes, yes it was.
Fuck Putin. He is a dishonest dealer and if you can’t deter him he will rob you blind.
Yes, YOU, Aupy.

 

[Harry Bosch]

What you don't understand is that Ukraine has no choice but to fight.Russia has no desire for a peace with Ukraine. They want all of it. Ask Barbos. If Ukraine ceded territory now, and demilitarized, Russia would invade the rest of the country in a year or so. If you want a rules based world with peace, you'd favor helping Ukraine and all countries to fight off invaders.

That is the situation now. If Poroshenko and people were wiser and not starry eyed, this situation would not have arisen.
Well, Ukraine has not tried. They are depending upon arms supply from West and its acolytes. Who is talking about ceding the territory or demilitarization?
Which prophet says that Russia is interested in occupying the whole of Ukraine?
China has occupied part of Ladakh. We have not ceded the territory, we are talking.
The best help to Ukraine at the moment is to advise them to talk with Russia. Perhaps, together they can find a solution.
But West does not want that.

Why do you think that the west wants this war? That's crazy talk. This war has caused great inflation over the whole world. No one wants it. The only way to stop the war if for Russia to return home and make it so that they don't want to attack ever again. You tell me how that could happen. An alliance and/or arming the shit out of them is the only way that I can see to make that happen. But you tell me your ideal

Secondly, Russia has stated many times their terms for a peace: ceding more land; full demilitarization; de-nazification; reparations; and etc. Just google it. Russia wants the war stopped now so that they can invade again at a later date when it's convenient for them.

 

[Elixir]

Russia wants the war stopped now so that they can invade again at a later date when it's convenient for them.

Actually they are in an enviable “heads we win tails you lose” situation. Go ahead give us some land and stop fighting, and we’ll come back for the rest later, or - keep fighting and we’ll borrow some cannon fodder from our pal Kim if we have to, and keep murdering Ukrainians until they no longer exist.
A no lose proposition, UNLESS THEIR ASS GETS ROYALLY KICKED.

That’s why we have to enable Ukraine to royally kick their butt.

 

[bilby]

Which prophet says that Russia is interested in occupying the whole of Ukraine?

Vladimir Putin.

He even sent his tanks to take Kyiv, destroy the government of Ukraine, and leave the country with no option but to accept his chosen puppets as their government.

They failed miserably. Trying hard to do something (even if you fail) is pretty solid evidence of a desire to do that thing.

No prophecies, foresight, or premonitions are needed; Just a memory of what happened a couple of years ago.

 

[ZiprHead]

What you don't understand is that Ukraine has no choice but to fight.Russia has no desire for a peace with Ukraine. They want all of it. Ask Barbos. If Ukraine ceded territory now, and demilitarized, Russia would invade the rest of the country in a year or so. If you want a rules based world with peace, you'd favor helping Ukraine and all countries to fight off invaders.

That is the situation now. If Poroshenko and people were wiser and not starry eyed, this situation would not have arisen.
Well, Ukraine has not tried. They are depending upon arms supply from West and its acolytes. Who is talking about ceding the territory or demilitarization?

Why should Ukraine give any land at all to Russia?

Which prophet says that Russia is interested in occupying the whole of Ukraine?

You really should pay better attention to subjects before you speak.

China has occupied part of Ladakh. We have not ceded the territory, we are talking.
The best help to Ukraine at the moment is to advise them to talk with Russia. Perhaps, together they can find a solution.
But West does not want that.

Talks have been ongoing. The Russians have not moved an inch from their original proposal.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You completely failed to address your point about entering into security alliances for protection.

Ukrainians completely failed to assess Russia's concerns about their relations with West and elected Poroshenko as their President in 2014. That is when the war started.

So people shouldn't enter into security alliances because it might piss off the people they're trying to protect themselves from. According to you they should have consulted Putin, the very person most likely to threaten their freedom and security. Not so brilliant, you know. That means the US should have consulted Hitler and Tojo before entering WW2 because it had the possibility of impacting US security. Brilliant.

 

[SLD]

You completely failed to address your point about entering into security alliances for protection.

Ukrainians completely failed to assess Russia's concerns about their relations with West and elected Poroshenko as their President in 2014. That is when the war started.

What the fuck? So Ukrainians can’t elect who they want? That’s an acceptable reason to invade? Seriously?

Here’s a dumb question for you: why did Putin say he was unconcerned when Finland actually did join NATO? He had no problem with it. Ukraine was never seriously considered for NATO. This war has everything to do with Putin’s desire to conquer Ukraine. That’s all. It’s got nothing to do with NATO. If it did he would have shit over a Finland and Sweden actually joining. He didn’t.

Both together border more of Russia than Ukraine. NATO is just Putin’s bullshit excuse. And it’s not working as can be seen by his failure to make any progress in this war. He’s a fucking moron.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Why are US and India not recognizing Taiwan as an independent country? That is realpolitik. Ukraine forgot that.

I think Taiwan and the PRC both claim to represent all of the Chinese people.

If another country recognises Taiwan it means they are not recognising PRC.

I think it's more about the diplomatic game and international law than realpolitik. Realpolitik is when people say and do different things. They're not doing that regarding Taiwan.

 

[barbos]

What the fuck? So Ukrainians can’t elect who they want? That’s an acceptable reason to invade? Seriously?

They elected Yanukovich and you overthrew him.
Why can't Russia do the same?
And yes. Russia has acceptable and more importantly legal reasons to invade.
It's way more legal than your bombing of Yugoslavia or invasion of Iraq, or Vietnam, or Panama, or Cuba, or Libya, or Syria.

 

[barbos]

You completely failed to address your point about entering into security alliances for protection.

Ukrainians completely failed to assess Russia's concerns about their relations with West and elected Poroshenko as their President in 2014. That is when the war started.

So people shouldn't enter into security alliances because it might piss off the people they're trying to protect themselves from. According to you they should have consulted Putin, the very person most likely to threaten their freedom and security. Not so brilliant, you know. That means the US should have consulted Hitler and Tojo before entering WW2 because it had the possibility of impacting US security. Brilliant.

You fail to mention that Putin started threatening Ukraine with all these bad things when US decided that Ukraine must be in NATO. And Yes, according to international law Putin had legitimate reasons to first threaten and then act on his threats.
Contrary to what you believe Countries can not do whatever they want in their borders, they just can't.
Ask JFK.

 

[barbos]

In the meantime, apparently there are folks who's vision is so limited that they don't think of these other states as deserving of the same level of security or that they have a right to make such security agreements.

By siding with West without considering Russia's concerns, Poroshenko made the first mistake. As Ukrainians thought, the West is now saving Ukraine. Otherwise the question of saving Ukraine would never have arisen., and the West also could have saved its money.

Why are US and India not recognizing Taiwan as an independent country? That is realpolitik. Ukraine forgot that.

What you don't understand is that Ukraine has no choice but to fight.

Current Ukro-regime critters vehemently I repeat vehemently disagree.
They not only say that they had great option but they (Elensky included) in fact took it.
This is a matter of public records. Stop posting patently false shit!

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

What you don't understand is that Ukraine has no choice but to fight.Russia has no desire for a peace with Ukraine. They want all of it. Ask Barbos. If Ukraine ceded territory now, and demilitarized, Russia would invade the rest of the country in a year or so. If you want a rules based world with peace, you'd favor helping Ukraine and all countries to fight off invaders.

That is the situation now. If Poroshenko and people were wiser and not starry eyed, this situation would not have arisen.
Well, Ukraine has not tried. They are depending upon arms supply from West and its acolytes. Who is talking about ceding the territory or demilitarization?
Which prophet says that Russia is interested in occupying the whole of Ukraine?
China has occupied part of Ladakh. We have not ceded the territory, we are talking.
The best help to Ukraine at the moment is to advise them to talk with Russia. Perhaps, together they can find a solution.
But West does not want that.

Russia is demanding Ukraine cede territory to Russia, disarm itself and agree to never join NATO to stop the bombing of Ukraine's civilians and civilian infrastructure. this is not peace talks. it is a demand for Ukraine's capitulation. As if Ukraine can trust Russia to not continue it's war of aggression in the future.

 

[bilby]

"I have in my hand a piece of paper, signed by Mr Hitler Putin himself, which assures us that with the settlement of the Sudetenland Crimean question comes the end of his territorial ambitions". - Sir Neville aupmanyav, speaking in 1938 2014.

 

[zorq]

What the fuck? So Ukrainians can’t elect who they want? That’s an acceptable reason to invade? Seriously?

They elected Yanukovich and you overthrew him.

Ukranian citizens decided on their own that Yanukovich was betraying them and they overthrew him all by themselves.

Why can't Russia do the same?

You can. Go overthrow Putin. That asshole doesn't have your best interests at heart. Do you know how many Russian lives he has thrown away in this stupid war so that some Russian grain oligarchs could profit from stolen Ukranian land? Do it! You deserve better.

And yes. Russia has acceptable and more importantly legal reasons to invade.

If that is true then why haven't you posted them yet? All we get are conspiracy theories with no evidence to back them up, unfounded accusations of scary scary "NAZIs," and the fact that maybe there was a textbook written in Ukranian that had something wrong in it???? Come on dude. Show us the money!

It's way more legal than your bombing of Yugoslavia or invasion of Iraq, or Vietnam, or Panama, or Cuba, or Libya, or Syria.

Some of these things are not like the others, but yes, the US has done some very dirty deeds and it is bad that they did them. Why is it so hard for you to recognize that Russia does dirty deeds too?

 

[Patooka]

You completely failed to address your point about entering into security alliances for protection.

Ukrainians completely failed to assess Russia's concerns about their relations with West and elected Poroshenko as their President in 2014. That is when the war started.

The, "look what you made me do" argument isn't as compelling as you'd think.

 

[aupmanyav]

Why do you think that the west wants this war? That's crazy talk. This war has caused great inflation over the whole world. No one wants it. The only way to stop the war if for Russia to return home and make it so that they don't want to attack ever again. You tell me how that could happen. An alliance and/or arming the shit out of them is the only way that I can see to make that happen. But you tell me your ideal

Secondly, Russia has stated many times their terms for a peace: ceding more land; full demilitarization; de-nazification; reparations; and etc. Just google it. Russia wants the war stopped now so that they can invade again at a later date when it's convenient for them.

10 alerts. Why many of you are after me? Why don't you people accept that views may differ?

To be one up with Russia, extend NATO in some disguise to Central Asia. Or even possibly destroy Russia's nuclear capabilities. That will leave only two adversaries, China and North Korea. Indian official policy to which I agree is to hold talks. Terms will come up only after talks.

 

[aupmanyav]

Vladimir Putin.
He even sent his tanks to take Kyiv, destroy the government of Ukraine, and leave the country with no option but to accept his chosen puppets as their government.

Yeah, sure. If there are no talks, that is Putin's objective. The war will go on and may turn worse with time. But things can change after talks.

 

[aupmanyav]

Why should Ukraine give any land at all to Russia?

Who said that Ukraine should give any land to Russia?

You really should pay better attention to subjects before you speak.

I am paying all attention.

Talks have been ongoing. The Russians have not moved an inch from their original proposal.

What is the use of such talks that produce no results? Are they talking directly or they have a mediator? Replacement of Zelensky (not necessarily by a Putin stooge but by a moderate leader) and distance from NATO could be some of the conditions. Are these conditions unfair?