How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[bilby]

I have not studied the reasons why US joined WW2

They were attacked.

If you need more details than a three word history in order to grasp the point to which you were responding, I can be more expansive:

Show

They were attacked by Japan.

Any consideration of events in the Malay peninsula or the Dutch East Indies is just overthinking it.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I have not studied the reasons why US joined WW2

They were attacked.

If you need more details than a three word history in order to grasp the point to which you were responding, I can be more expansive:

Show

They were attacked by Japan.

Any consideration of events in the Malay peninsula or the Dutch East Indies is just overthinking it.

Japan in China. The horrifying Rape Of Nanking. The U.S. was already on a collision course with Japan ever before Pearl Harbor.

 

[Patooka]

I have not studied the reasons why US joined WW2

They were attacked.

If you need more details than a three word history in order to grasp the point to which you were responding, I can be more expansive:

Show

They were attacked by Japan.

Any consideration of events in the Malay peninsula or the Dutch East Indies is just overthinking it.

Japan in China. The horrifying Rape Of Nanking. The U.S. was already on a collision course with Japan ever before Pearl Harbor.

Roosevelt had to fight tooth and nail with Congress just to get military aid to white people in Europe. There is no way the US was going to give a flying fuck what orientals are doing to one another "over there" unless explicitly provoked.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

I have not studied the reasons why US joined WW2

They were attacked.

If you need more details than a three word history in order to grasp the point to which you were responding, I can be more expansive:

Show

They were attacked by Japan.

Any consideration of events in the Malay peninsula or the Dutch East Indies is just overthinking it.

Japan in China. The horrifying Rape Of Nanking. The U.S. was already on a collision course with Japan ever before Pearl Harbor.

Roosevelt had to fight tooth and nail with Congress just to get military aid to white people in Europe. There is no way the US was going to give a flying fuck what orientals are doing to one another "over there" unless explicitly provoked.

The U.S. cut off material to Japan. Including scrap iron and other important commodities. Aviation fuel was no longer allowed to be sent to Japan.

 

[aupmanyav]

Gee Aupy, guess we should have invaded Cuba, killed the people and destroyed the infrastructure, as Russia justifiably did when they lied about Ukraine being a threat.
I mean yeah -same deal; the US was installing Nukes in Ukraine targeted at Moscow, right?
Oh - that’s totally wrong. Never mind, it’s just a fantasy to entertain the ignorant Indian masses.

JFK would have acted if there was no deal. Putin does not want NATO interfering with its southern neighbors. Who is talking about justifiable or not? That does not matter in war.

 

[aupmanyav]

If you were Ukrainian you would have a different opinion. Subjugation is not peace and it is not freedom.

If I were a wise Ukrainian, I would talk rather than keep on fighting with Russia. Talking is not accepting subjugation.
We are in talks with China about Ladakh, it does not mean that we have accepted subjugation to China.

 

[laughing dog]

So people shouldn't enter into security alliances because it might piss off the people they're trying to protect themselves from. According to you they should have consulted Putin, the very person most likely to threaten their freedom and security. Not so brilliant, you know. That means the US should have consulted Hitler and Tojo before entering WW2 because it had the possibility of impacting US security. Brilliant.

They should have been wise enough to think before they entered alliances as to what the alliance will result in.

What security alliance are you referring to?


Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is a good reason for Ukraine to want to join NATO. It certainly oersuaded Sweden and Finland to join.

 

[aupmanyav]

Not if you think Churchill and Roosevelt should have been replaced as Leaders of the free world at Hitler's behest in order to achieve peace in the 1940s.

No problem. Continue the war.

That explains everything.

It does not. I did a quick reading and replied in my post at .https://iidb.org/threads/how-should-west-respond-to-potential-likely-russian-invasion-of-ukraine.25317/page-768#post-1194529

"Japan's assumption turned out to be wrong. They should have rather struck British Malay and the Dutch East Indies, and see if US joined the war. But they forced US to join war."

 

[laughing dog]

If you were Ukrainian you would have a different opinion. Subjugation is not peace and it is not freedom.

If I were a wise Ukrainian, I would talk rather than keep on fighting with Russia. Talking is not accepting subjugation.
We are in talks with China about Ladakh, it does not mean that we have accepted subjugation to China.

If Ukraine had not resisted, it would no longer be Ukraine. China was not out to reclaim India. The two situations are not comparable..

 

[aupmanyav]

You completely ignored the point. If it was NATO expansion that triggered the invasion, why did Putin have no objection to Finland and Sweden join ..
Here’s another point, Putin has actually pulled troops from his northern areas near Finland to support Ukraine.
.. he will seek to destroy NATO so he can then start plotting to take over the Baltic States and Poland as well; other Eastern countries that considers his “sphere of influence” will also be threatened.
The only way they will defeat Ukraine is if the Orange turd gets elected and withdraws support for Ukraine as he is ordered to by his KGB handler, Putin.

My answer is clearly contained in the post that you are replying to:
"Putin is not unconcerned but he already has one war on his hand. He is trying to increase his power in Baltic Sea and Barent's Sea."
Sure, at the moment he needs more forces against Ukraine.
The reason why Putin is bothered about Baltic States and Poland is, again, NATO expansion. Root cause of the conflict is NATO expansion.
The Orange turd is not yet there, hope that the stumbling old man does not start the WWIII.

 

[aupmanyav]

Yeah, I'm confused as fuck about what aupmayav's point is as well.

What are you confused about? I am saying is that the Ukraine war is the result of NATO's expansionism. NATO wants, supports and is pleased, gleeful about the war. Destruction of Ukraine does not matter to them.

 

[aupmanyav]

The U.S. cut off material to Japan. Including scrap iron and other important commodities. Aviation fuel was no longer allowed to be sent to Japan.

You are correct Cheerful Charlie. That seems the real reason. US was helping the British and Japan had to respond.

 

[laughing dog]

Yeah, I'm confused as fuck about what aupmayav's point is as well.

What are you confused about? I am saying is that the Ukraine war is the result of NATO's expansionism. NATO wants, supports and is pleased, gleeful about the war. Destruction of Ukraine does not matter to them.

Where do you get such ideas?

 

[barbos]

I have not studied the reasons why US joined WW2

They were attacked.

If you need more details than a three word history in order to grasp the point to which you were responding, I can be more expansive:

Show

They were attacked by Japan.

Any consideration of events in the Malay peninsula or the Dutch East Indies is just overthinking it.

Japan in China. The horrifying Rape Of Nanking. The U.S. was already on a collision course with Japan ever before Pearl Harbor.

Yes, it was more horrible than opium wars.

 

[barbos]

What the fuck? So Ukrainians can’t elect who they want? That’s an acceptable reason to invade? Seriously?

They elected Yanukovich and you overthrew him.
Why can't Russia do the same?

We did not do any such thing.

You absolutely did.

And yes. Russia has acceptable and more importantly legal reasons to invade.

Really? What are those reasons? And, please, cite the laws that make the invasion legal.

I already did.

It's way more legal than your bombing of Yugoslavia or invasion of Iraq, or Vietnam, or Panama, or Cuba, or Libya, or Syria.

Yay! Two wrongs make a right.

That's 7 wrongs, at least.

 

[DrZoidberg]

A consulate is just a regular office. It has zero official recognition, nor does it need any.

If China and Taiwan are one country, then the consulates in Taiwan should be a part of the Embassy in Beijing. Why not have an Embassy in Taiwan and consulates in China. It is one country.
It is not like that since many countries including US and India, do not want to ruffle Chinese feathers. Ukraine and some other countries have ruffled the Russian feathers.

Taiwan and CPR are basically two sides in an ongoing civil war. That influences how the diplomatic game needs to be played.

In 1979 most countries decided that CPR had won the Chinese civil war and should represent all of China. That's why the embassies were moved to Beijing. And that's the situation now. Consulates were opened in Taiwan because local diplomatic representation is necessary, no matter the title of the diplomat

Both CPR and Taiwan are China.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Yeah, I'm confused as fuck about what aupmayav's point is as well.

What are you confused about? I am saying is that the Ukraine war is the result of NATO's expansionism. NATO wants, supports and is pleased, gleeful about the war. Destruction of Ukraine does not matter to them.

I don't understand your logic. How did NATO's expansionism lead to the war in Ukraine? Its a defensive pact. How does the destruction in Ukraine benefit NATO?

 

[aupmanyav]

What security alliance are you referring to?

There was no alliance in 2014, but Poroshenko tried to defeat Russian invasion in Crimea by military action rather than talks. Ukraine pays the price.
That is poor diplomacy.
"His presidency was distilled into a three-word slogan, employed by both supporters and opponents: armiia, mova, vira (military, language, faith)."

Petro Poroshenko - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[aupmanyav]

If Ukraine had not resisted, it would no longer be Ukraine. China was not out to reclaim India. The two situations are not comparable.

Ladakh is India (at least by Indian position). That way Cremea was not Ukraine. What was wrong in Russia occupying it? The two situations are comparable.

 

[aupmanyav]

Where do you get such ideas?

Why don't you see what is so obvious?