How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[aupmanyav]

Do you have the answers to those questions? I think he was pointing out an observation. None of the reasons you stated are usual methods of spreading propaganda. Inviting people at no cost? What does that have anything to do with anything? Were you connected to the Russian embassy? Are you familiar with them?

I said US does that, by my own experience. No cost means being invited to seminars, academics invited as visiting professors. I was with Fulbright Commission in Delhi for 25 years. I have no connection with Russian Embassy.

 

[barbos]

That was kinda the first thing that popped into my head. Why would anyone with her history and knowledge think that going to Russia is a good idea?

I have heard that muggings are common in Moscow. Of course, they are common in New York too if one is in a wrong area at a wrong time.

You were misinformed. Muggings are extremely rare in Moscow and even in Russia in general.
Foreigners moving to Russia all notice that Moscow is very safe, certainly more safe than big cities in Western Europe.
To be fair most of the Eastern Europe (Poland, Slovakia, Czech etc) seems to be safe too.
Western Europe has a long history of immigration from third world countries and human "rights" trumping common sense basically ignores petty crime. In US it depends on particular place. I have lived in not particularly rich suburbs where you can walk at night just fine. But some nearby places - not so much.

 

[barbos]

Propaganda Wars.

Not wars, a war. Ukraine, despite being horrible, is remarkably good at it. I suspect western public is simply preconditioned (by their own media) to believe anything they say.

 

[aupmanyav]

Indian nationalism.

It is more than that if you know about 'Advaita' (non-duality), saying that humans, animals, vegetation and non-living material is composed of the same atoms/molecules. It negates God and soul. It does not recognize differences of caste and religion. Yogi Adityanath is the head of one such seminary, which has shops owned by Muslims on its premises.

Advaita philosophy is very old.
"According to Frits Staal, a Emeritus professor of philosophy specializing in Sanskrit and Vedic studies (UC Berkeley), the word Advaita itself is from the Vedic era, and the Vedic sage Yajnavalkya (8th or 7th-century BCE) is credited to be the one who coined it. Stephen Phillips, a professor of philosophy and Asian studies (UT, Austin), translates the Advaita containing verse excerpt in Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, as "An ocean, a single seer without duality becomes he whose world is Brahman."

Advaita Vedanta - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[barbos]

Yeah? Well how much longer before you kick them out of Kursk?

Some say we should not. Place is pretty much a desert, fairly far from ukrainian logistics. Surround these Ukro-SS units and exterminate, slowly, very slowly.

 

[bilby]

.. though some members did, but not under NATO’s writ.

In Ukraine too, nations are helping not under NATO's writ. That is sheep's clothing, camouflage. Does it fool anyone? NATO is in a proxy war with Russia and Ukraine is the proverbial goat.

Horseshit. NATO has fuck-all to do with Russian agression against Ukraine. If Ukraine had joined NATO before Russia invaded, Putin would never have dared invade. They didn't, so NATO isn't involved.

NATO only gets into wars if and when a NATO member state is attacked. That's literally in their charter, as the ONLY reason for NATO to be involved in a war; And if, as, and when any NATO member state is attacked, ALL NATO states are required, and have promised, to get involved.

Ukraine is not a NATO state. Any NATO state must therefore decide for itself whether, and to what extent, and on which side, they get involved in the Russia-Ukraine war.

That none have chosen to back Russia is a consequence of Russia's actions being morally reprehensible, and in no way reflect NATO policy, NATO treaty obligations, or NATO membership.

Until and unless NATO is attacked, NATO is not involved, except in the fevered imaginings of a Russian dictator who yearns for the halcyon days of the Cold War, when Russia was at least feared, if not respected.

Russia (and the Russian military in particular), as a pathetic object of ridicule, is Putin's greatest fear, and is also entirely his own fault. Until he demonstrated its impotence by trying and failing to reach Kyiv, everyone was worried. Now they are laughing, and Putin (like every totalitarian since forever) hates to be ridiculed more than he hates anything else.

He just hasn't grown up enough to understand that the only way to avoid ridicule, is to avoid being ridiculous.

 

[bilby]

Who's the Russian stooge? To be a Russian stooge you have to swallow and spread Russian propaganda which is exactly what you are doing.

Honest to God (though I am a strong atheist, it is just a way of putting things), firstly, there is no Russian propaganda in India

If you believe that, you have zero understanding of what propaganda is, or how it works.

and secondly, when I come across any which I feel may be propaganda, I just give it a skip.

So, there isn't any, and when you see it, you skip it? Do you see the logic problem here?

"You cannot possibly have caught me speeding, officer. I never exceed the speed limit, and I slowed down to the limit as soon as I saw your patrol car!"

I also do not go through the Western propaganda, of which there is a lot around.

There is.

And you like to imagine that you can spot it, which makes you a propagandist's favourite kind of mark.

 

[bilby]

I do not think Warsaw pact and the Scandinavian countries did themselves any good by joining NATO. They have now become registered enemies of Russia. There was no need for that. Russia was not going to attack them.

Russia was also never going to attack Ukraine. That didn't work out so well, did it?

 

[aupmanyav]

Russia was also never going to attack Ukraine. That didn't work out so well, did it?

I do not think it had any intention to attack till the removal of Yanukovich.

"Yanukovych said, "Ukraine's integration with the EU remains our strategic aim", with a "balanced policy, which will protect our national interests both on our eastern border – I mean with Russia – and of course with the European Union". According to Yanukovych, Ukraine must be a "neutral state" which should be part of a "collective defense system which the European Union, NATO and Russia will take part in." Yanukovych wanted Ukraine to "neither join NATO nor the CSTO".

Viktor Yanukovych - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But that was not the way US/NATO wanted it. So they created a revolution. Yanukovich was a safe bet for Ukraine.

 

[barbos]

I do not think Warsaw pact and the Scandinavian countries did themselves any good by joining NATO. They have now become registered enemies of Russia. There was no need for that. Russia was not going to attack them.

Russia was also never going to attack Ukraine. That didn't work out so well, did it?

Actually Russia was pretty clear that we will attack them if they insist on joining NATO.

 

[barbos]

Horseshit. NATO has fuck-all to do with Russian agression against Ukraine.

NATO secretary disagrees with you.

 

[Copernicus]

It is a false analogy to compare religious beliefs with political beliefs.
I'm still waiting for you to address my point that all former Warsaw Pact nations sought membership in NATO when Soviet power collapsed during the Gorbachev regime. You defend your claim by simply declaring that you know better than those who disagree with you. That is not defending your claims. It is denying others the right to disagree with you.

I believe some people here are aware of US/NATO machinations but would not show it.
I do not think Warsaw pact and the Scandinavian countries did themselves any good by joining NATO. They have now become registered enemies of Russia. There was no need for that. Russia was not going to attack them. This is the specter created by NATO.

First, let's just address the history of Russian relations with Finland. Until 1809, Finland was independent of Russian rule. From 1809 to 1917, Russia occupied and ruled Finland. From 1917 to the present, Finland was free of Russian rule, but Stalin attacked it in 1939 to expand Russian territory. The Finns drove off Russian forces, which were larger in number and better equipped, but some of its territory ended up being ceded to, and annexed by, the Soviet Union. So Finland was always something of an enemy of Russia and Soviet hegemony, but they maintained neutrality in order to avoid further conflict with their more powerful neighbor. After Russia invaded Ukraine, Finns realized that Russia had become expansionist again, and that is the primary reason that they applied for full membership in NATO--to get what Ukraine wanted but could not get. Sweden had also tried to maintain neutrality, but it realized that it needed the full protection of NATO membership. Those were sensible choices that had the general support of the Finnish and Swedish populations. None of those countries suffered under the delusion that Russia was their friend. Not after Putin's invasion of Ukraine in 2014. India can afford to maintain the delusion, because it has nothing to fear or lose. It does not share a border with Russia. China is more of a threat to India.

Sure, every one defends his/her views. I am not doing any thing new. Why do you think that I am claiming to know better than them? I always respected your views and we have interacted with each other since the original IIDB time. On this subject, our views are a bit different. I have a sort of 'third world' views.

You do not know better than others here, and I hope that you reflect on how arrogant it sounds to others when you say that. You are entitled to your opinions, but I am still waiting for you to go beyond bald face declarations and move on to defending them against the challenges that others pose. Saying that you know better than others when you give no evidence of superior knowledge is not a defense of your opinions. If anything, it is evidence that you cannot deny the facts. So you ignore them.

 

[Henry-Finland]

steve bank wrote:
"It shows the danger of government control of education and texts. There were reports Russian texts quickly changed to support the narrative Ukraine was always Russia."
Early 2001 the 'alternative history books' had already been published.
Then came the "proto-Nashi" youth movements with the idea that all foreigners are bad.
2005 began the real "Nashi"-movement. Wiki:
""Nashi", lit. 'Youth Democratic Anti-Fascist Movement "Ours!"') was a political youth movement in Russia, Nashi_(Russian_youth_movement) which declared itself to be a democratic, anti-fascist, anti-"oligarchic-capitalist" movement.
Nashi was widely characterised as a pro-Putin outfit, with the Bureau of Investigative Journalism describing it as "Putin's private army"."

(Governmental) money was not a problem for them. But when Putin did not need them anymore, the flow of money stopped.

Wiki:
"By late 2007, it had grown in size to some 120,000 members aged between 17 and 25. On April 6, 2012, the Nashi leader announced that the current form of the movement would dissolve in the near future, possibly to be replaced by a different organisation."

__________________________________________________

As I posted before, The Russians has been brainwashed further since then - books are one example:





Please watch the video and you will get a broader picture:

 

[barbos]

Wow. Barbos has sure been quiet the last few days.

It's easy to be quiet when you are banned for no reason whatsoever.

What a fucking embarrassment. 1,000+ Russian troops have surrendered on Russian soil for the first time since WWII.

No, not 1000+. Just a couple of hundred since the beginning of the nazi "invasion" which now know has failed.

Over 100,000 civilians have been forced to flee

I don't know how you counted that but the place did not have that many people.
If was basically 5K people in Sunja and maybe 5K in tiny villages around it.
It's basically empty space which has no military value.

 

[JohnG]

Who's the Russian stooge? To be a Russian stooge you have to swallow and spread Russian propaganda which is exactly what you are doing.

Honest to God (though I am a strong atheist, it is just a way of putting things), firstly, there is no Russian propaganda in India

If you believe that, you have zero understanding of what propaganda is, or how it works.

and secondly, when I come across any which I feel may be propaganda, I just give it a skip.

So, there isn't any, and when you see it, you skip it? Do you see the logic problem here?

"You cannot possibly have caught me speeding, officer. I never exceed the speed limit, and I slowed down to the limit as soon as I saw your patrol car!"

I also do not go through the Western propaganda, of which there is a lot around.

There is.

And you like to imagine that you can spot it, which makes you a propagandist's favourite kind of mark.

A google search for "Russian propaganda in India" displays lots of interesting results

I only wish I could say there was no Russian propaganda in Canada

 

[Henry-Finland]

"We raped 3 boys, 5 girls, 6 women, and shot them" - a captured russian occupier tells about his group's atrocities in Avdiivka."​

The guy is barely able to talk due to malnutrition and most certainly beating from ukro-gestapo propaganda department.
It's an old ukro-tale about russians raping everything that moves especially 100 year old ukro-babushkas.

Here is a better video which was released by ukro-nazi themselves:

VK.com | VK

m.vk.com

For these who don't speak russian. Nazi Clowns in Kursk region from Ukraine wearing WW2 german SS uniform harass an old man using fake german accent and some german. Calling him a russian Ivan, Russian pig.
Irony is, old man is actually from ..... Ukraine, which he left after nazi coup in 2014.
5 million rubles reward was offered for catching these nazi clowns.

Yeah? Well how much longer before you kick them out of Kursk?

The VK propaganda link that barbos gave, only leads to a series of propaganda videos. Nothing that he described.
I wanted to check why he believes that it is made by the Ukrainians - not Russian FSB?

 

[Henry-Finland]

Up to date, some 2000 Russian troops have surrendered and there will be more. The moral is quite bad among the Russian army.

 

[barbos]

The VK propaganda link that barbos gave, only leads to a series of propaganda videos. Nothing that he described.

I checked. it shows the video I described. Video was taken by ukrainian SS unit (apparently) and posted elsewhere.
So you are as usual wrong. I reported you to the administration and await what they will do to you.

 

[barbos]

Up to date, some 2000 Russian troops have surrendered and there will be more. The moral is quite bad among the Russian army.

That's what Regime in Kiev claims. They are pathological liars.
They parade the same group of prisoners counting them over and over again.

 

[Henry-Finland]

How Russia Is Helping Ukraine Solve Its Biggest Problem​

If there is something that has characterized post-Soviet Ukraine, it is precisely corruption. We are talking about the country considered the most corrupt in all of Europe. And the question is, why? Who really owns Ukraine? What is the war with Russia implying for the powerful Ukrainian oligarchs?