How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

Do you (the usual suspect) realize that the official narrative is changing?
It's not longer your usual "Evil Putin must be stopped or we all will be living in gulags"

 

[Henry-Finland]

Do you (the usual suspect) realize that the official narrative is changing?
It's not longer your usual "Evil Putin must be stopped or we all will be living in gulags"

What official narrative?
If you mean about Natsi-Russia, so it has changed as nowadays they also murder POWs.
Nothing new per se, but the discussion is now "clearer".

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Someone appears to be an expert on gulags. No argument from me.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Do you (the usual suspect) realize that the official narrative is changing?
It's not longer your usual "Evil Putin must be stopped or we all will be living in gulags"

The narrative hasn’t changed for me. I favor stopping imperialism. I’m also against American imperialism when it happens. I think that all countries should keep their damn military within their own UN recognized boundaries unless they are directly attacked. Period. And Utin invaded a sovereign country.

 

[steve_bank]

European leaders are concerned about Volodymyr Zelensky's falling polls in Ukraine. Their current indifference has been demonstrated in his meetings in France and Germany.

Europe's administrations believe that Zelensky can no longer encourage Ukrainian nation to continue the warfare. This is shown by the cold shoulder given to Ukraine's President this week during his negotiations in Europe. Zelensky discussed the possibility of weaponry manufacturing in Ukraine with French President Emmanuel Macron. However, his French counterpart responded to this with neither any agreements nor specific actions.

In his meeting with German Chancellor Olaf Scholtz, President Zelensky requested missile attacks further into Russia and faster NATO membership for Ukraine. These requests, according to the journalists, were ignored.

The Ramstein meeting being postponed is also quite revealing. The US President and State Secretary referred to the devastating effect of Hurricane Milton. However, a more reasonable explanation for this would be Joe Biden's unwillingness to speak about the conflict in Ukraine in the run-up to the presidential elections where his administration has to focus on dealing with internal affairs.

Overall, it's evident how unconvincing Volodymyr Zelensky’s political steps are in order to further the war which neither his American nor European partners are interested in.
View attachment 48163

So to avoid a drawn out and lengthy process,

1. Do you think Putin was justified invading Ukraine?
2. NATO provoked Russia?
3. Russia has a right to Ukraine?

And so on.

Or do you support a free and independent Ukraine?

1. Do you think Obama was justified invading Syria?
2. Syria provoked USA?
3. USA has a right to Syria?

Whatever mistakes the western alliance have made, the question in this thread is about the brutal genocide of Ukraine and its justification..

Again you are ignorant of modern history and current events. Obama did bot invade Syria. Syria was in a civil war.

Right or wrong we got rid of Hussein and handed Iraq to the people. Free elections, but they could not handle it and fell into factional fighting.

The USA, French, and Brits have long been trying to stabilize the Mid East mostly in the interest of keeping oil flowing. If it were not for oil and Israel we would not care what they all do to each other.

What started ed it all was the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. One of the suicide planes on 911 struck the Pentagon. An act of war.

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/archives/digital-exhibits-highlights/photo-galleries-9-11/pentagon-attack.html

911 led to attacking Afghanistan and Iraq a second time.

The first Gulf War was about getting Iraq out of Kuwait and protecting the Arab oil fields. It was coalition of western allies and Arabs.

One of Husein's claims was that Kuwait was historically part of Iraq and he had a right to plunder it. Just like Putin's clam about Ukraine.

Ukraine was never a threat to Russia or anyone. Like Husein Putin was out to plunder for personal glory, resources, and power.

I a still waiting for factual reports of opposition voices in Baltic states always being arrested.

 

[pood]

The U.S. invaded Syria?

Our resident Putinista AI Large Language Model chatbot seems direly confused, as AI so often is.

 

[Elixir]

What started ed it all was the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.

That was a chilling moment. But not nearly as chilling for me, as was the moment just days later when Bushbaby announced the spawning of Das Department von Heimat Sicherheit.
Every nightmarish vision that announcement evoked, is coming to pass.

 

[steve_bank]

I remember it clearly.

I did not watch TV or turn on the radio before work.

When I walked in it was obvious something was wrong. I went into my boss's office and he hard a hard time talking about it. I watched on TV in another office and I could not believe it, I thought it must be a hoax.

Bush senior decided to not to enter Iraq and topple Hussein because it would have unpredictable consequences.

The only time I have emailed the WH was to oppose GWB's decision to invade Iraq. We had no post war pan for Iraq. General Chinsaki complained he did not have enough material for the war and troops for post war occupation and was fired.

Rumsfeld said 'You don't go to war with what you need you go wihat what you have''.

We have our share of political idiots.

 

[barbos]

Whatever mistakes the western alliance have made, the question in this thread is about the brutal genocide of Ukraine and its justification..

Sorry, Russia made a mistake, are we good now?

 

[barbos]

The U.S. invaded Syria?

Yes, you have. You still occupy part of the Syria.

 

[steve_bank]

The U.S. invaded Syria?

Yes, you have. You still occupy part of the Syria.

It is not an occupation.

Russian intervention in the Syrian civil war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On 30 September 2015, Russia launched a military intervention in Syria after a request by the government of Bashar al-Assad for military support in its fight against the Syrian opposition and Islamic State (IS) in the Syrian civil war.[155][156] The intervention was kick-started by extensive air strikes across Syria, focused on attacking opposition strongholds of the Free Syrian Army along with the rebel coalition of the Revolutionary Command Council and Sunni militant groups under the Army of Conquest coalition. In line with Syrian government propaganda which denounces all armed resistance to its rule as "terrorism"; Syrian military chief Ali Abdullah Ayoub depicted Russian airstrikes as facilitating their campaign against terrorism.[157][158][159] Russian special operations forces, military advisors and private military contractors like the Wagner Group were also sent to Syria to support the Assad regime, which was on the verge of collapse.[160][161] Prior to the intervention, Russian involvement had been heavily invested in providing Assad with diplomatic cover and propping up the Syrian Armed Forces with billions of dollars of arms and equipment.[162] In December 2017, the Russian government announced that its troops would be deployed to Syria permanently.[163]

The rebellion was against the dictator leading Syria. People wanted democracy, human rights, and free speech. As usual Russia supports the dictator and we support democracy.

As in Ukraine the Russians destroyed settlements and attacked civilians.

Free Syrian Army - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Free Syrian Army - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Free Syrian Army (FSA; Arabic: الجيش السوري الحر, romanized: al-jaysh as-Sūrī al-ḥur) is a big-tent coalition of decentralized Syrian opposition rebel groups in the Syrian civil war[34][35] founded on 29 July 2011 by Colonel Riad al-Asaad and six officers who defected from the Syrian Armed Forces.[36][37] The officers announced that the immediate priority of the Free Syrian Army was to safeguard the lives of protestors and civilians from the deadly crackdown by Bashar al-Assad's security apparatus; with the ultimate goal of accomplishing the objectives of the Syrian revolution, namely, the end to the decades-long reign of the ruling al-Assad family.[38][37][39] In late 2011, the FSA was the main Syrian military defectors group.[40][41] Initially a formal military organization at its founding, its original command structure dissipated by 2016, and the FSA identity has since been used by various Syrian opposition groups.[42][43][44][45]

Does Russian TV and Internet allow global reporting?

Still waiting for cases about opposition always being arrested in Baltic states.

 

[barbos]

It is not an occupation.

Actually it is.

 

[barbos]

US presense in Syria - Google Search

And as of the beginning of 2024, the U.S. still had close to 1,000 military personnel in the eastern part of Syria.

 

[barbos]

Still waiting for cases about opposition always being arrested in Baltic states.

I have better. They harass western foreigners who dared to live in Russia:

Baltic states are the most deranged of all the west.

 

[steve_bank]

Yo9u said 'always getting arrested' not harassed.

To a degree in western liberal democracies people can be harassed, defamed, and heckle by citizens but not the government. For citizens we cal freedom of speech and expression.. The right to oriticize and publicly protest individuals, groups, and government.

In contrast in Russia both Russian and foreign reporters have been arrested for voicing criticism of government.

A Russian media video in Russian is not proof of 'always being arrested in Baltic states'.

The video looks homemade.

If I saw you in Seattle I would get a group following you around haraqnguing you....it is my right to do so, express my hostility to you and Putin to your face.

 

[barbos]

Yo9u said 'always getting arrested' not harassed.

Yes, arrested, they have laws for that.

https://tass.ru/proisshestviya/19023935

 

[barbos]

The video looks homemade.

And your point is?
It's argentinian citizen who was refused entrance into Estonia on the basis that she was a student in russian university.
She was detained, lost money on the ticket to the bus and was kicked out back to Russia.
Estonian border officers were rude obnoxious and out of control.

 

[SLD]

The video looks homemade.

And your point is?
It's argentinian citizen who was refused entrance into Estonia on the basis that she was a student in russian university.
She was detained, lost money on the ticket to the bus and was kicked out back to Russia.
Estonian border officers were rude obnoxious and out of control.

Damn! You should attack them for such rudeness. Sounds like a good pretext for war.

 

[steve_bank]

People in the Baltic states and others like Poland remember the Soviet oppression and see what Putin is doing today.

They don't like Russia and Russians. That is why they joined NATO.

It comes down to Putin seeing himself as a reincarnation of old Russian czars, conquerors. A fantasy of Soviet glory and power which never existed.

Putin appears to live in an isolated reality not grasping the world is moving on, people like feeling free from governments and tyrants. They like free expression.

Our Trump is a Putin wannabe. Without our constitution and independent judiciary he might be.

If you came to Seattle I would get in your face and suggest you go back where you came from.

Savvy? Get my drift?


If Russia had free speech, free press, and free elections Putin would be out. He knows it like all dictators and authoritarians do. Free speech and media are threats to their personal power.


Poor Putin, all that money he has squirreled away and he can't go anywhere to spend it. All those great restaurants and hotels in Europe. All those people and leaders in the EU going where they want having a good time.

My guess is Putin in private pitiably goes into a frustrated rage, we know Trump does. He probably thinks conquering Ukraine will make him feel better.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yo9u said 'always getting arrested' not harassed.

Yes, arrested, they have laws for that.

https://tass.ru/proisshestviya/19023935

English translation:

VILNIUS, October 16. /TASS/. Lithuanian police detained four people in Vilnius for desecrating the Ukrainian flag on October 15. This was reported by the police department.

"Four people aged 25 to 43, including one woman, were detained while intoxicated for desecrating the national flag on Sunday before midnight," the statement said.

According to the police, in the city centre, those detained shoved a Ukrainian flag upside down into a trash can and spat on it.

Such actions are punishable by a fine, arrest or imprisonment for up to two years.