How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Loren Pechtel]

And if by some miracle Ukraine were able to keep them then there would have been shitload of dead New Yorkers

And I do mean Miracle. Nukes are not like grenades. You can't push a button and launch them. You can't even take warhead/bomb and smuggle it into New York and then explode it without codes from Moscow.
You can't even disassemble them without destroying most of the hardware in them. At best you will be able to get a little bit of plutonium and that's it. You need codes from Moscow and you need people who are trained to operate these nukes, Ukraine had none of that. To maintain these nukes you had to send them to ..... Russia, yes, to Russia. Ukraine had/has no nuclear facilities they are all father in the East around Ural region. There is zero chance for Ukraine to have these nukes to last 30 years without maintenance. People in these silos had nothing to do with Ukraine, their loyalty was 100% to Moscow, their dachas were there too. There were no banderites near these nukes at all. You had to have absolutely clean genealogy and perfect russian to serve in strategic nuclear forces.

Do we have evidence that you ever actually implemented the PAL system we provided? (Yes, it's a US system, we gave it to you to reduce the chance of a rogue nuke.) Your nuclear security in some other regards has been abysmal. After the collapse we were buying a bunch of plutonium off you because it was simply sitting there in unguarded warehouses. And the ISS exists to keep Russian rocket scientists employed rather than offer their services on the market.

I do agree the bombs wouldn't work. But I would be quite surprised if the same isn't true of most of your bombs.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

China is known fr its extreme jingoism and cultural bias. The CCP considers anyne of Chinese dissent abroad as owing allegiance to the motherland.

Doesn't mean they do, though.

Here in Chinatown there are stores with only Chinese signs where a non Chinese will be ignored.

I've never been ignored but I've been in stores where they didn't speak any English. Pointing plus a tiny bit of Chinese from my wife were needed to actually buy what she wanted.

I doubt China has anything but racial and social contempt for Russia and considers Russia inferior.

Duh!

There are probably jokes in China told about Russia and Putin.

China and Russia may have ended the border dispute, but the animisoty has not likely gone away.

Yup. They're enemy-of-my-enemy status, not friends.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One of the area where Russia is still way ahead of China is aerospace and weapons (nuclear subs, Air Defence in particular).
Which is kinda remarkable considering that Russia has been stagnating there since the end of the USSR.
Apparently it's tough nut to crack, even with money Chinese have.
Russia is the only country outside of the combined West (1bil people) which has comparable full spectrum aerospace expertise.

Российский двигатель для новых широкофюзеляжных самолетов. Образец ПД-35 показал устойчивую работу в ходе испытаний

Опытный образец авиадвигателя - демонстратора технологий ПД-35 успешно завершил первый этап испытаний, о чем пишет ТАСС со ссылкой на представителей предприятий, участвующих в разработке двигателя.

www.ixbt.com

Both of you are trying to copy US tech. And often doing a bad job of it.

Remember that drone that went nuts and you shot it down? That's a stealth shape--with completely non-stealthy construction techniques. Aping.

 

[barbos]

Barbs sounds like an old Soviet communist retired on a pension. Living in fantasy of past and present Russian glory.

That's you, not me

 

[barbos]

Both of you are trying to copy US tech. And often doing a bad job of it.

And you are doing the same. And no. Russian passenger planes being developed are comparable to what you currently have.
Chinese are 30 years behind and they use critical parts from the west.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There are no US troops or NATO in Ukraine.

You're probably going too far here. There are probably trainers there and they're probably US military.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Both of you are trying to copy US tech. And often doing a bad job of it.

And you are doing the same. And no. Russian passenger planes being developed are comparable to what you currently have.
Chinese are 30 years behind and they use critical parts from the west.

We keep finding western parts in your military stuff.

 

[barbos]

Remember that drone that went nuts and you shot it down? That's a stealth shape--with completely non-stealthy construction techniques. Aping.

Bullshit, you are talking nonsense. Especially considering the whole damn concept of radar stealth was stolen from ..... USSR.

 

[barbos]

Both of you are trying to copy US tech. And often doing a bad job of it.

And you are doing the same. And no. Russian passenger planes being developed are comparable to what you currently have.
Chinese are 30 years behind and they use critical parts from the west.

We keep finding western parts in your military stuff.

So what? I was talking about passenger planes. Of course in case of war you started we will use whatever is available and cheapest to put in.

 

[barbos]

There are no US troops or NATO in Ukraine.

You're probably going too far here. There are probably trainers there and they're probably US military.

Yeah, they are no longer in the US military.
Sorry man, nobody believes that shit. US millitary presence is significant becasue ukrainians can not operate a lot of shit you send them, particularly Patriot System.

 

[barbos]

Do we have evidence that you ever actually implemented the PAL system we provided? (Yes, it's a US system, we gave it to you to reduce the chance of a rogue nuke.)

Yes, we are stupid orcs incapable of doing anything without your help.

 

[barbos]

Yup. They're enemy-of-my-enemy status, not friends.

You think ukro-nazi like you?
You fucking supported Bin Laden

 

[bilby]

None of us speak or read Russian cyrillic or Ukrainian.

Some of us can.

Personally, I don't respond to Russian propaganda - I took Barbos off 'ignore' because I found it annoying to see replies without knowing what had prompted them, but I refuse to engage with him, partly because it's futile, and partly because I suspect he benefits financially from any responses to, or quoting of, his posts.

My Russian was never very good, and is very rusty to boot, so I applaud the use of cyrillic text, which is easier for me to skip over without reading it.

 

[barbos]

None of us speak or read Russian cyrillic or Ukrainian.

Some of us can.

Personally, I don't respond to Russian propaganda - I took Barbos off 'ignore' because I found it annoying to see replies without knowing what had prompted them, but I refuse to engage with him, partly because it's futile, and partly because I suspect he benefits financially from any responses to, or quoting of, his posts.

My Russian was never very good, and is very rusty to boot, so I applaud the use of cyrillic text, which is easier for me to skip over without reading it.

I am glad that you finally accepted that Odessa is a russian city and news coming from there is russian propaganda

 

[steve_bank]

Remember that drone that went nuts and you shot it down? That's a stealth shape--with completely non-stealthy construction techniques. Aping.

Bullshit, you are talking nonsense. Especially considering the whole damn concept of radar stealth was stolen from ..... USSR.

I think the Russian paper was published, but Russia did not have the computer capacity and expertise to make it work.

The Russian paper was the basis for our first stealth plane. That is public knowledge. There was a documentary on it.

As to stealing, or aping, technology the Russian space shuttle. I don;t think it actually flew, but basically a copy of our space shuttle.

Buran (spacecraft) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Soviets had good theoretical math and science, but no capacity to make thingss work.

Russian technology today is most or all based on technology pioneered by North America and Europe. Computers. The basic concept,the Turing Machine, was developed by Turing in England and the first programmable electronic computer was built by the Brits in WWII.

The transistor which led to integrated circuits and microprocessors.

The magnetron for RADAR and it is the man component in motorcade ovens.

The Russians have contributed little to modern technology.

Theo ld Soviet communist still blaming the wet for Russia's chronic failures.

 

[bilby]

because it's futile

See post 18,516 for an example of this.

 

[steve_bank]

Pyotr Ufimtsev - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Pyotr (Petr) Yakovlevich Ufimtsev (Russian: Пётр Я́ковлевич Уфи́мцев; born 1931) is a Soviet Russian electrical engineer and mathematical physicist, considered the seminal force behind modern stealth aircraft technology. In the 1960s he began developing equations for predicting the reflection of electromagnetic waves from simple two-dimensional and three-dimensional objects.[1]

Much of Ufimtsev's work was translated into English, and in the 1970s American Lockheed engineers began to expand upon some of his theories to create the concept of aircraft with reduced radar signatures.[2]

While working in Moscow, Ufimtsev became interested in describing the reflection of electromagnetic waves. He gained permission to publish his research results internationally because they were considered to be of no significant military or economic value.[4]

There was no stealing of ideas. Lockheed used his work as a starting point.

 

[barbos]

As to stealing, or aping, technology the Russian space shuttle. I don;t think it actually flew, but basically a copy of our space shuttle.

History man, first of all it flew. Second of all there was a reason why it was "stolen" and it has nothing to do with inability of russian space program to design something different.

I think the Russian paper was published, but Russia did not have the computer capacity and expertise to make it work.

Bullshit, they were simply not interested for some reasons, that's all.
And in the end of the day, stealth is not really that great. It's not a problem for countries with integrated air defence.

It was a waste of money.

 

[steve_bank]

I could find the paper online but there no point to it. The paper was not about stealth aircraft, it was about EM diffraction. Lokcheed came up with te idea of applying it to stealth.

A thread for science.

It was the Brit Maxwell who derived what became electromagnets in the first pace, I used to have a copy of his books. A line of Europeans fed into his work and his prediction of C as speed of light. But you should know that as a PHD in physics. Ohm, Kirchhoff, Faraday, Oersted ,Gauss.

And the Newton formation of calculus. And Newtons mechanics. Arab-Persian math and science fed into European science, Newton used Persian astronomical data.

There may be a Russian or two somewhere in the chain but I have never heard of any.

Russia has never been part of the evolutionary paths, and remains isolated culturally today, courtesy of Putin.

Face it Barbos, Russia is a copier of technology, not an innovator.

Stalin had a spy inside our early nuclear program, Klaus Fuchs. Russia stole our nuclear t6echnolgy.

Before the Internet Russian and Chinese agents were known to go to public libraries and copy any publc science and engineer they could find.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

because it's futile

See post 18,516 for an example of this.

Are bots and trolls paid by the minute or the response like telemarketers? I never figured this but certainly there is payment of some kind for the idiocy and propaganda that gets peddled. Pewstain is textbook KGB. There's no reason to think his sycophants are any different.