How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[crazyfingers]

How does health spending in the U.S. compare to other countries? - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

In this chart collection, we examine how U.S. health spending compares to health spending in other OECD countries that are similarly large and wealthy, based on median GDP and median GDP per capita. For this analysis, we reviewed the OECD Health Statistics database and the CMS National Health...

www.healthsystemtracker.org

 

[bilby]

Europe's generous healthcare systems are only possible because we spend so little on defence.

Sure. But the flip side is that the USA's massive and bloated military is only possible because they spend so little on healthcare, or indeed, on anything else the people might actually need.

I think if you look it up the US per capita spending on health care is about twice that of most European countries. We just waste a ton of money on for profit health care, rediculous paperwork and lawyers.

My apologies; I should have made clear that by "they" I was referring to the US Government, not the USA as a nation.

The issue being discussed is Government spending. Most of that high per capita spend comes from non-government sources.

In Europe, you pay taxes and get healthcare.

In the US, you pay taxes, and you then ALSO pay for healthcare.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Europe's generous healthcare systems are only possible because we spend so little on defence.

Sure. But the flip side is that the USA's massive and bloated military is only possible because they spend so little on healthcare, or indeed, on anything else the people might actually need.

I think if you look it up the US per capita spending on health care is about twice that of most European countries. We just waste a ton of money on for profit health care, rediculous paperwork and lawyers.

That's a ridiculous way of counting. That's just a side effect of how the US system is organised.

US care is unevenly distributed. To get the biggest bang for the buck, if you want to impact average life expectancy of a nation, you need to treat people based on need, regardless of income

 

[crazyfingers]

Europe's generous healthcare systems are only possible because we spend so little on defence.

Sure. But the flip side is that the USA's massive and bloated military is only possible because they spend so little on healthcare, or indeed, on anything else the people might actually need.

I think if you look it up the US per capita spending on health care is about twice that of most European countries. We just waste a ton of money on for profit health care, rediculous paperwork and lawyers.

That's a ridiculous way of counting. That's just a side effect of how the US system is organised.

US care is unevenly distributed. To get the biggest bang for the buck, if you want to impact average life expectancy of a nation, you need to treat people based on need, regardless of income

And as a result, the US spends twice as much for worse results.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Europe's generous healthcare systems are only possible because we spend so little on defence.

Sure. But the flip side is that the USA's massive and bloated military is only possible because they spend so little on healthcare, or indeed, on anything else the people might actually need.

I think if you look it up the US per capita spending on health care is about twice that of most European countries. We just waste a ton of money on for profit health care, rediculous paperwork and lawyers.

That's a ridiculous way of counting. That's just a side effect of how the US system is organised.

US care is unevenly distributed. To get the biggest bang for the buck, if you want to impact average life expectancy of a nation, you need to treat people based on need, regardless of income

And as a result, the US spends twice as much for worse results.

That wasn't my point. You need some socialism to distribute healthcare money from the rich to the poor. That is very expensive. As is having an effective army.

I'd argue that European style healthcare is also wasteful. Getting help here is unnecessarily easy. A Swedish doctor friend once complained that 90% of his patients were obviously whiny hypochondriacs. We can afford this luxury because daddy USA is protecting us.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Finland extends its border closure with Russia another month.
Sweden's defense minister and military CinC tries to wake up the country to preparedness.
Best to be ready for a Trump presidency.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Finland extends its border closure with Russia another month.
Sweden's defense minister and military CinC tries to wake up the country to preparedness.
Best to be ready for a Trump presidency.

The problem with Sweden is that it's defence has been neglected since the early 90'ies. Its going to take a while to get up to speed

 

[bilby]

Finland extends its border closure with Russia another month.
Sweden's defense minister and military CinC tries to wake up the country to preparedness.
Best to be ready for a Trump presidency.

The problem with Sweden is that it's defence has been neglected since the early 90'ies. Its going to take a while to get up to speed

I presume you are referring to the 1690s?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Finland extends its border closure with Russia another month.
Sweden's defense minister and military CinC tries to wake up the country to preparedness.
Best to be ready for a Trump presidency.

The problem with Sweden is that it's defence has been neglected since the early 90'ies. Its going to take a while to get up to speed

I presume you are referring to the 1690s?

Lol. You know our nation well. Our last competent warrior king was Gustavus Adolphus. After him its been downhill

 

[TV and credit cards]

Kyiv Confirms Downing of Two Russian Command Planes in Disastrous Day for Kremlin Air Force

Sources in Ukrainian intel confirmed to Kyiv Post that two aircraft had been shot down, but did not provide further details of what weapons were responsible.

www.kyivpost.com

Ukraine has said two Russian airborne command aircraft were shot down on Sunday evening in what amounts to one of the worst days for Moscow’s air force since the start of the full-scale invasion.

Ukrainian media on Sunday evening reported an A-50 radar early-warning plane was downed on Sunday evening shortly after take-off over the Sea of Azov in the Kyrylivka area of Zaporizhzhia in southern Ukraine.

A Russian Ilyushin Il-22 airborne command post was also damaged in an attack and forced to make an emergency landing in Anapa on the Russian side of the Sea of Azov.

I can't imagine these are easily replaced now that Russia has been sanctioned into the stone age.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Kyiv Confirms Downing of Two Russian Command Planes in Disastrous Day for Kremlin Air Force

Sources in Ukrainian intel confirmed to Kyiv Post that two aircraft had been shot down, but did not provide further details of what weapons were responsible.

www.kyivpost.com

Ukraine has said two Russian airborne command aircraft were shot down on Sunday evening in what amounts to one of the worst days for Moscow’s air force since the start of the full-scale invasion.

Ukrainian media on Sunday evening reported an A-50 radar early-warning plane was downed on Sunday evening shortly after take-off over the Sea of Azov in the Kyrylivka area of Zaporizhzhia in southern Ukraine.

A Russian Ilyushin Il-22 airborne command post was also damaged in an attack and forced to make an emergency landing in Anapa on the Russian side of the Sea of Azov.

I can't imagine these are easily replaced now that Russia has been sanctioned into the stone age.

Yeah. Russia doesn't seem to have much in the way of anything but manpower and they're rapidly burning through what equipment they do have. And Ukraine seems to have a sense of how to rub it in. Russia just deployed a new anti-drone system--and it was promptly blown up by a drone. A while back they deployed a new counterbattery radar--and it got popped by artillery.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Kyiv Confirms Downing of Two Russian Command Planes in Disastrous Day for Kremlin Air Force

Sources in Ukrainian intel confirmed to Kyiv Post that two aircraft had been shot down, but did not provide further details of what weapons were responsible.

www.kyivpost.com

Ukraine has said two Russian airborne command aircraft were shot down on Sunday evening in what amounts to one of the worst days for Moscow’s air force since the start of the full-scale invasion.

Ukrainian media on Sunday evening reported an A-50 radar early-warning plane was downed on Sunday evening shortly after take-off over the Sea of Azov in the Kyrylivka area of Zaporizhzhia in southern Ukraine.

A Russian Ilyushin Il-22 airborne command post was also damaged in an attack and forced to make an emergency landing in Anapa on the Russian side of the Sea of Azov.

I can't imagine these are easily replaced now that Russia has been sanctioned into the stone age.

There have also been reports that Ukraine is able to electronically jam incoming missiles and take away their ability to navigate. That's a major win if indeed that is the case. Electronic warfare is not new but it says that Ukraine continues to improve.

There was another report where their "Sea Baby" surface drones are now equipped with defensive firepower, giving them the ability to defend themselves when attacked, or at least make the attackers think twice before closing in. All good stuff.

 

[Tigers!]

Lol. You know our nation well. Our last competent warrior king was Gustavus Adolphus. After him its been downhill

Except for that final foolish cavalry charge.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Lol. You know our nation well. Our last competent warrior king was Gustavus Adolphus. After him its been downhill

Except for that final foolish cavalry charge.

A king who isn't brave won't be followed. Bravery and stupidity aren't that far apart.

Kings took dumb risks all the time. It was the job of his bodyguard to keep him alive. Sooner or later it would end badly. They all knew that. It was a different world. Life was cheap. Even the lives of Kings

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Life was cheap. Even the lives of Kings

Not a king like present day Russian Dictators. They even have tables where people are seated thirty feet away. Courage seems to be a lost art in Russia. But life generally? Sure. Cheap is the word and they prove it everyday.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[TV and credit cards]

Jesus H. Christ! That's some speed complaining. I guess they got a lot to bitch about and want to try and get it all in.

 

[TomC]

Jesus H. Christ! That's some speed complaining. I guess they got a lot to bitch about and want to try and get it all in.

Yeah, well it was carefully edited.

But still, the contrast between, in that post, what the Russians were saying in 2022 and now, is stark.
It isn't Europe freezing.

I look forward to barbos' explanations about how this is a result of Ukrainian Nazis being propped up by NATO and USA.
Tom

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I look forward to barbos' explanations about how this is a result of Ukrainian Nazis being propped up by NATO and USA.

Rest assured it's all part of grand, glorious and clever plan to save motherland from Yankee hordes.

 

[Harry Bosch]

They have no choice.

Of course they have a choice, they can surrender and live happily ever after in Russia.

The war will continue until Russians get tired

Right, and ukrainians are never get tired.
Let me explain it to you. There is a good chance that Nazi will not get any money from you in January.
None, zilch, nada! Even if they get something it won't last past your elections. And money is not the only problem they have.
They are running out of willing idiots to fight Russia. Ukraine has no money to support war, west has no weapons to send, Ukraine has no men to man these weapons which you don't have.
You're screwed. Your best hope is to make republicans to vote for $60bil and tell Ukraine to not collapse until November so that Senile in Chief walking dead has a chance at reelection.

They will fight to the death.

Puh-leeze. Ease up on CNN.

Russia has no choice but to defeat this US Proxy war. Otherwise Russia is no more.

The thing that you are missing is that Ukrainians have nowhere to retreat to. Their backs are to the wall. Your side has the largest country in the world that your soldiers can return to.

As an aside, why in the world would Russia cease to exist if you can't conquer all of Ukraine? Would you not a nation before this war started in 2014? Before the war started, there were two sovereign countries: Russia and Ukraine. If your side wins, there will be no Ukraine. If Ukraine wins, everything will return to how it was prior to 2014.