How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[aupmanyav]

You're obviously not a student of history and nor do you embrace democracy. There probably isn't any level of barbarity Putin can inflict on Ukraine that would make you rethink your position..

I do feel extremely sorry for what is happening in Ukraine, but the differences arose because of Ukraine's actions. Instead of finding a solution (as the President of Ukraine, he should have done that), Zelenski has led Ukraine into a long disastrous war with Russia.
I do believe in democracy, but not in the way it exists in India at present, where it engenders dynasties. All opposition consists of dynasties, whether it is Abdullah in Kashmir, Gandhi in Delhi, Yadavas in UP and Bihar, Karunanidhis in Tamilnadu and Bannerjee in Bengal. That is why I like Modi.

 

[aupmanyav]

Well, you've said several times in this forum that you're against Ukranians having arms to defend themselves. How do they fight off Russians without arms? Asking them nicely probably won't work.

Yes, I am against Ukrainians getting western arms because that will only prolong and intensify war with Russia. It only helps Western powers. They should not be fighting with Russia but negotiating peace. Of course, it will require more than just nice talk. Probably they could talk about 'autonomy', etc.

 

[aupmanyav]

The problem is that you want them to accept the peace of death. Russia's actions are genocidal

No. I want them to leave the path of death which they are doing at present at the instigation of western powers. They should talk with Russia through some intermediary. The more they hit Russia, the response would be even worse. Russia is not going to bow down.

 

[aupmanyav]

Sheesh! Can you not comprehend what I wrote? You’re risking a wider global war that will destroy your economy and entire way of life. Stop supporting genocide and war. You are not being neutral.

I do not support war-mongers.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The problem is that you want them to accept the peace of death. Russia's actions are genocidal

No. I want them to leave the path of death which they are doing at present at the instigation of western powers. They should talk with Russia through some intermediary. The more they hit Russia, the response would be even worse. Russia is not going to bow down.

But you need to understand is that Ukraine can't really back down. It's Ukraine that has its back against the wall. Have you heard the terms that Russia is willing to accept? Here's what Russia wants: 1) de-naziification (what the fuck does that mean?); 2) all Ukranian leaders thrown in the gulag; 3) full de-militarization; 4) reparations for Russia; 5) all conquered land and stolen goods to remain in Russian hands.

So, let me ask you something: are these reasonable terms that you think India could accept if they were demanded by Pakistan or China as an example?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You're obviously not a student of history and nor do you embrace democracy. There probably isn't any level of barbarity Putin can inflict on Ukraine that would make you rethink your position..

I do feel extremely sorry for what is happening in Ukraine, but the differences arose because of Ukraine's actions. Instead of finding a solution (as the President of Ukraine, he should have done that), Zelenski has led Ukraine into a long disastrous war with Russia.
I do believe in democracy, but not in the way it exists in India at present, where it engenders dynasties. All opposition consists of dynasties, whether it is Abdullah in Kashmir, Gandhi in Delhi, Yadavas in UP and Bihar, Karunanidhis in Tamilnadu and Bannerjee in Bengal. That is why I like Modi.

Why have you fought with Pakistan rather than bow down to Islamabad?

 

[ZiprHead]

Sheesh! Can you not comprehend what I wrote? You’re risking a wider global war that will destroy your economy and entire way of life. Stop supporting genocide and war. You are not being neutral.

I do not support war-mongers.

By not supporting Ukraine you are supporting a war monger.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sheesh! Can you not comprehend what I wrote? You’re risking a wider global war that will destroy your economy and entire way of life. Stop supporting genocide and war. You are not being neutral.

I do not support war-mongers.

You included an incorrect word: "not". You're supporting the war monger Putin.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But you need to understand is that Ukraine can't really back down. It's Ukraine that has its back against the wall. Have you heard the terms that Russia is willing to accept? Here's what Russia wants: 1) de-naziification (what the fuck does that mean?); 2) all Ukranian leaders thrown in the gulag; 3) full de-militarization; 4) reparations for Russia; 5) all conquered land and stolen goods to remain in Russian hands.

So, let me ask you something: are these reasonable terms that you think India could accept if they were demanded by Pakistan or China as an example?

And they're not saying #6: the end of Ukranian culture. Take the children, kill anyone who can fight.

 

[zorq]

You're obviously not a student of history and nor do you embrace democracy. There probably isn't any level of barbarity Putin can inflict on Ukraine that would make you rethink your position..

I do feel extremely sorry for what is happening in Ukraine, but the differences arose because of Ukraine's actions.

This is myopic and wrong. I don't know what you imagine has happened or what you imagine Ukraine did that finally triggered Russia's wanton agression, but Ukraine's choices didn't happen in a bubble.

Ukraine was watching in 2008 when Russia violently inserted themselves into a Georgian civil war as "peacekeepers" who then turned around and simply conquered and annexed that contested territory. Putin proved then that his Russia could not be trusted to respect the lives or territory of it's neighbors. Ukraine's people and politicians choosing to back away from such an untrustworthy neighbor isn't surprising in the least. 2014's Maidan movement was a predictable response to Russian vileness that had been perpetuated upon Ukraine by Russia for the entirety of the 20th century. And then Russia went ahead and proved once again how slimy and twofaced they were when they invaded and stole Crimea in 2014 and sent soldiers into the Donbas to instigate an uprising there. This war actually started well before Zelensky was elected president, back in 2014 when Russia sent her troops into the Donbas and they have been illegally and violently murdering Ukrainans there for the past decade.

Instead of finding a solution (as the President of Ukraine, he should have done that), Zelenski has led Ukraine into a long disastrous war with Russia.

Ukraine was minding her own business and not actually doing anything threatening to Russia. Russia is the aggressor motivated out of selfish greed, not some ephemeral insecurity. The EU/NATO has/had no desire to invade Russia. EU/NATO has/had no desire to destroy Russia. Ukraine choosing to ally economically with Europe over their past and present abusers, Russia, was and is a noble choice. A choice that did NOT invite Russian aggression any more than choosing to shop at the convenience store down the street invites the clerks at the grocery store you used to shop at to murder and rape your children.

Zelinsky has and had no choice because if Ukraine doesn't win this war, they will utterly lose the next war Russia imposes upon them.

 

[SLD]

Sheesh! Can you not comprehend what I wrote? You’re risking a wider global war that will destroy your economy and entire way of life. Stop supporting genocide and war. You are not being neutral.

I do not support war-mongers.

Yes you do! If you buy Russian gas, you ARE a warmonger.

 

[Tammuz]

People tend to want to help their friends when they are in need. But you do you.

Does the HELP which the Western powers are providing to Ukraine, helps Ukraine? Or it results in more deaths for Ukrainians?

When Russian troops first invaded, the intent was to rid the land of this name, Ukraine. We all thought it was a foregone conclusion that Putin would succeed in doing just this. Then a strange thing happened on the way to Kiev, Ukrainians resisted. Funny thing that, when a neighbor is trying to wipe out your culture, folks tend to resist. Concerned about their head of state, the West offered sanctuary. His response, "I don't need a ride, I need more ammunition." And he stayed in Kyiv and is there to this day and the West will help him for as long as he asks for help. For as long as the Ukrainian people resist.
Ukrainians have not asked anyone else to shed blood for their country. They ask only for the means to resist and hopefully remove the aggressor. This is where we started and this is where we are today. Any attempts to portray Ukrainians as a tool of Western nations will be beaten back with an avalanche of evidence to the contrary. There is only one individual responsible for all this death: Putin. He is a bully and bullies deserve a punch in the nose. My country got this one right.

I'm pretty sure Ukraine is asking for the stuff they thnk they might get. Obviously they want troops as well. But right now, nobody is willing to send troops. So there's no real point in asking for it.

And I think the main reason for a reluctance to send troops, is because Ukraine is a corrupt shit show of a nation. Much like Russia.

I think western nations need guarantees before sending troops, and Ukraine is so corrupt, they can't.

In the Iraq war the coalition could pick and chose the future government. Not so in Ukraine. In Ukraine most of the power lies with the oligarchs, (ie maffia). Do we really want to help them? Sending weapons has less of an emotional impact on a nation than sending troops. If Ukraine wins and goes down the toilet for other reasons, it's going to feel bad that we lost our soldiers fighting for it. 20 years of occuption and Afghanistan still hurts our feelings. As well as Vietnam

Are you one of the few pro-Russian Swedes?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

You're obviously not a student of history and nor do you embrace democracy. There probably isn't any level of barbarity Putin can inflict on Ukraine that would make you rethink your position..

I do feel extremely sorry for what is happening in Ukraine, but the differences arose because of Ukraine's actions. Instead of finding a solution (as the President of Ukraine, he should have done that), Zelenski has led Ukraine into a long disastrous war with Russia.
I do believe in democracy, but not in the way it exists in India at present, where it engenders dynasties. All opposition consists of dynasties, whether it is Abdullah in Kashmir, Gandhi in Delhi, Yadavas in UP and Bihar, Karunanidhis in Tamilnadu and Bannerjee in Bengal. That is why I like Modi.

So you favor Putin government? You somehow think that dictatorship is better than what Ukraine had? Do you know what it means to cling to an abusive guardian? That is what you are saying the Ukrainians should do, submit to Hitler and take their chances. It didn't work so well for the Jews. What leads you to think it would work for the Ukraine?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I do not support war-mongers.

The difference between what a person says and what a person does is what a person does. Think about that. You favor a Putin/Hitler dictatorial state? Should South Korea just surrender to North Korea?

 

[Elixir]

Sheesh! Can you not comprehend what I wrote? You’re risking a wider global war that will destroy your economy and entire way of life. Stop supporting genocide and war. You are not being neutral.

I do not support war-mongers.

Your support for war-mongering is evident in your opposition to Ukraine defending itself against unprovoked invasion.
I suspect you'd be whistling out of the other side of your mouth if it was YOUR home being invaded.

 

[aupmanyav]

But you need to understand is that Ukraine can't really back down. It's Ukraine that has its back against the wall. Have you heard the terms that Russia is willing to accept? Here's what Russia wants: 1) de-naziification (what the fuck does that mean?); 2) all Ukranian leaders thrown in the gulag; 3) full de-militarization; 4) reparations for Russia; 5) all conquered land and stolen goods to remain in Russian hands.

Who told you that these are Putin's terms? Western media? NATO? Ukraine should talk and see. Make Modi the mediator, whether in Ukraine or in Gaza.
He will do it.
We have a saying in this part of the world now - 'Modi hai to mumkin hai' (If there is Modi around, then it is possible).
Temple in Abu Dhabi. Who thought it was possible?

 

[barbos]

So you favor Putin government? You somehow think that dictatorship is better than what Ukraine had?

What you have in US is much closer to what Russia has than to what Ukraine had before 2014.
Of course now they have Dictatorship.


By the way, Putin created cure for cancer, so take that you, you stupid "democracies".

 

[DrZoidberg]

People tend to want to help their friends when they are in need. But you do you.

Does the HELP which the Western powers are providing to Ukraine, helps Ukraine? Or it results in more deaths for Ukrainians?

When Russian troops first invaded, the intent was to rid the land of this name, Ukraine. We all thought it was a foregone conclusion that Putin would succeed in doing just this. Then a strange thing happened on the way to Kiev, Ukrainians resisted. Funny thing that, when a neighbor is trying to wipe out your culture, folks tend to resist. Concerned about their head of state, the West offered sanctuary. His response, "I don't need a ride, I need more ammunition." And he stayed in Kyiv and is there to this day and the West will help him for as long as he asks for help. For as long as the Ukrainian people resist.
Ukrainians have not asked anyone else to shed blood for their country. They ask only for the means to resist and hopefully remove the aggressor. This is where we started and this is where we are today. Any attempts to portray Ukrainians as a tool of Western nations will be beaten back with an avalanche of evidence to the contrary. There is only one individual responsible for all this death: Putin. He is a bully and bullies deserve a punch in the nose. My country got this one right.

I'm pretty sure Ukraine is asking for the stuff they thnk they might get. Obviously they want troops as well. But right now, nobody is willing to send troops. So there's no real point in asking for it.

And I think the main reason for a reluctance to send troops, is because Ukraine is a corrupt shit show of a nation. Much like Russia.

I think western nations need guarantees before sending troops, and Ukraine is so corrupt, they can't.

In the Iraq war the coalition could pick and chose the future government. Not so in Ukraine. In Ukraine most of the power lies with the oligarchs, (ie maffia). Do we really want to help them? Sending weapons has less of an emotional impact on a nation than sending troops. If Ukraine wins and goes down the toilet for other reasons, it's going to feel bad that we lost our soldiers fighting for it. 20 years of occuption and Afghanistan still hurts our feelings. As well as Vietnam

Are you one of the few pro-Russian Swedes?

People have a very habit of thinking in terms of good guys vs bad guys in war. Ukraine is not a modern western liberal democracy. As far as corruption and abuses of power, It's quite similar to Russia. Sure, it's made plenty of progress since the days it was ruled by the Russian puppet president, Yanukovych. But they've got plenty of more work to do before rule of law is a thing.

But granted, the less influence Russia has in Ukraine, the better for Ukraines future prospects. So it's a good idea to kick Russia out. But that doesn't mean that it still isn't a corrupt shit show of a nation.

 

[aupmanyav]

Why have you fought with Pakistan rather than bow down to Islamabad?

When did I say that Modi or myself are pacifists. There are times when war is 'dharma' (duty).

"jātasya hi dhruvo mṛtyuh, dhruvaṁ janma mṛtasya ca;
tasmād aparihārye ’rthe, na tvaṁ śocitum arhasi." BhagawadGita 2.27

(One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you need not lament.)

 

[barbos]

Ukraine was watching in 2008 when Russia violently inserted themselves into a Georgian civil war as "peacekeepers" who then turned around and simply conquered and annexed that contested territory.

When are you going to stop posting BS?
Russia "inserted" themselves into a Georgian civil in ~1991 when it all started.
Russia has not annexed anything yet. There were/are some talks about annexing Abkhazia but it stays as it is.
Abkhazia is a part of Russia which was gifted to Georgia by ..... Stalin. So, are you a fucking Stalinist?
As for the South Ossetia, most of these people live in Russian part of Ossetia and really want to be in Russia.

And by the way. Current government in power in Georgia, while not happy about their border, pretty much told US "Fuck You!".