How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[barbos]

No amount of NATO being in that country by that country's own request, justifies crossing that border.

Tell that to President Kennedy. I feel like I am arguing with cats.
Going in circles.

I would tell that to Kennedy if I had been in a position to know and understand what was going on at the time.

And I am telling it to you now.

Well, nobody told that to Kennedy, your one of the greatest presidents and behaving exactly like Putin.

I would love to have been a president before. I never have been, though, and plenty of people DID tell Kennedy that.

Apparently he did not listen. So what do you want from Putin?

 

[Jarhyn]

No amount of NATO being in that country by that country's own request, justifies crossing that border.

Tell that to President Kennedy. I feel like I am arguing with cats.
Going in circles.

I would tell that to Kennedy if I had been in a position to know and understand what was going on at the time.

And I am telling it to you now.

Well, nobody told that to Kennedy, your one of the greatest presidents and behaving exactly like Putin.

I would love to have been a president before. I never have been, though, and plenty of people DID tell Kennedy that.

Apparently he did not listen. So what do you want from Putin?

To maybe not repeat the mistakes of the past, and not invade countries unilaterally.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Apparently he did not listen. So what do you want from Putin?

To not invade a sovereign nation that is acting non-aggressively towards it.

 

[barbos]

No amount of NATO being in that country by that country's own request, justifies crossing that border.

Tell that to President Kennedy. I feel like I am arguing with cats.
Going in circles.

I would tell that to Kennedy if I had been in a position to know and understand what was going on at the time.

And I am telling it to you now.

Well, nobody told that to Kennedy, your one of the greatest presidents and behaving exactly like Putin.

I would love to have been a president before. I never have been, though, and plenty of people DID tell Kennedy that.

Apparently he did not listen. So what do you want from Putin?

To maybe not repeat the mistakes of the past, and not invade countries unilaterally.

You are the one repeating the same mistake.

 

[Rhea]

The red line for Putin has always been NATO, period, not democracy, not EU.

What about NATO is he scared of, do you think?

I already told you. The goal of NATO is encircle Russia and eventually suffocate it.

What does that mean? Do you think NATO will lay seige to Russia? Starve it’s people?

Putin himself says NATO in Ukraine is close enough for decapitating strike.
I personally think he does not believe that NATO would ever attack Russia.
So it's about surrounding Russia with puppet NATO states and harass Russia into submission. That's my theory. And I think Putin has the same theory.

Submission of what, though?
NATO would not be needed for anything non-military. The EU could do that. And you said this wasn’t about EU membership. So if NATO will never invade (he and you think,) then what exactly would NATO *do*?

The “submission” part would be easily accomplished economocally without ever using NATO.

Unless… NATO is what keeps Russia from striking out (as they are now) and THAT is the threat of “submission”?

And his latest "lecture" is consistent with that thinking. He clearly frustrated with all that harassment coming from Ukraine too. Don't forget about events in Kazakhstan. That too pissed off Putin and russians in general. He did not speak specifically about Kazakhstan, he mentioned it in general terms that all former republics choose to build their identity on trashing Russia. You know what? It pisses me off too!

It’s about having thin skkin and wanting former republics to speak nice about him????
THAT’S the “submission”?

Now, read this post over and over again until you remember it. I am sick and tired explaining the same thing over and over again.

Well, since you change your mind, it’s not unreasonable for a person to ask what you think today. I mean, that’s not always a bad thing, getting new data and changing your mind is laudable. So don’ stop doing it. But then don’t blame people for asking your current position.

 

[Toni]

The outrage isn't fake.

It is, if you were not outraged by bombing of Yugoslavia and DID NOT demand sanctions against US.

What? You mean in response to the ethnic cleansing of Albanians?

 

[Rhea]

In other news, the Russians are now shelling Kiev. That thing Putin said about this being a peace keeping mission to defend Luhansk and Donetsk... I guess it wasn't. Putin is clearly going to try to grab all of Ukraine.

That may not be entirely correct. Because some of the "shelling" is actually Ukrainian Army blowing up their own bridges, I guess they read in their manual that would help to slow down invaders.

And Russian forces have been bombing ukrainian millitary bases all around Ukraine since the hour 1.

And mission has multiple objectives now, one of which is denazification.

The claim that “some” of the shelling is Ukrainian defense does not change that the REST of the shelling is Putin, who lied about just wanting Luhansk and Donetsk.

Dr. Zoid’s remark remains true.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The red line for Putin has always been NATO, period, not democracy, not EU.

What about NATO is he scared of, do you think?

I already told you. The goal of NATO is encircle Russia and eventually suffocate it.
Putin himself says NATO in Ukraine is close enough for decapitating strike.
I personally think he does not believe that NATO would ever attack Russia.
So it's about surrounding Russia with puppet NATO states and harass Russia into submission. That's my theory. And I think Putin has the same theory.

And his latest "lecture" is consistent with that thinking. He clearly frustrated with all that harassment coming from Ukraine too. Don't forget about events in Kazakhstan. That too pissed off Putin and russians in general. He did not speak specifically about Kazakhstan, he mentioned it in general terms that all former republics choose to build their identity on trashing Russia. You know what? It pisses me off too!

Now, read this post over and over again until you remember it. I am sick and tired explaining the same thing over and over again.

Yes, Eastern Europe is turning against Russia. But it is Russia's fault! You can't invade your neighbors, kill them, take their land, and not scare your neighbors. Look at some today comments from some of Russia's allies in the area:

By invading Ukraine, Putin loses allies in eastern Europe

No one wants to "harass Russia into Submission". To be honest with you, most don't give a shit. Most people in the world just want to wake in the morning in peace and try to pay all the bills that they have that are coming due. Russians have such an elevated opinion of yourselves! You want the world to revolve around you. You want to be in news daily. Most people can't even find Russia, the largest country land size in the world, on a map! But I'll tell you this, invading your neighbors has risen all of Eastern Europe against Russia. You guys have created this. Russians have created their own justifications for their victimhood.

 

[barbos]

In other news, the Russians are now shelling Kiev. That thing Putin said about this being a peace keeping mission to defend Luhansk and Donetsk... I guess it wasn't. Putin is clearly going to try to grab all of Ukraine.

That may not be entirely correct. Because some of the "shelling" is actually Ukrainian Army blowing up their own bridges, I guess they read in their manual that would help to slow down invaders.

And Russian forces have been bombing ukrainian millitary bases all around Ukraine since the hour 1.

And mission has multiple objectives now, one of which is denazification.

The claim that “some” of the shelling is Ukrainian defense does not change that the REST of the shelling is Putin, who lied about just wanting Luhansk and Donetsk.

Dr. Zoid’s remark remains true.

I don't give a fuck one way or another.

 

[barbos]

No one wants to "harass Russia into Submission".

Right hand of Saakashvili vehemently disagrees with you here. And she does so on record.
And it does not even matter. That's what I and really 140 millions russians believe.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The red line for Putin has always been NATO, period, not democracy, not EU.

What about NATO is he scared of, do you think?

I already told you. The goal of NATO is encircle Russia and eventually suffocate it.
Putin himself says NATO in Ukraine is close enough for decapitating strike.
I personally think he does not believe that NATO would ever attack Russia.
So it's about surrounding Russia with puppet NATO states and harass Russia into submission. That's my theory. And I think Putin has the same theory.

And his latest "lecture" is consistent with that thinking. He clearly frustrated with all that harassment coming from Ukraine too. Don't forget about events in Kazakhstan. That too pissed off Putin and russians in general. He did not speak specifically about Kazakhstan, he mentioned it in general terms that all former republics choose to build their identity on trashing Russia. You know what? It pisses me off too!
So, your fucking CIA experts and CNN talking heads lie about russian views, harass and now worry about mental state of Putin. Well, if you had not behaved like total assholes you would not have to decipher his mental state.

Now, read this post over and over again until you remember it. I am sick and tired explaining the same thing over and over again.

That's just redicullous. NATO is a defensive alliance to curb Russian aggression. If the USSR wouldn't have been so hellbent on dominating Europe like the finest imperialists we wouldn't have a problem. Russia under Putin kept going with the same bullshit as under the communists and Tsars.

Putin complaining about NATO is like a bully complaining their victims don't just lie down and take it

 

[barbos]

That's just redicullous. NATO is a defensive alliance to curb Russian aggression. If

I don't believe that for a second. 140 millions don't agree either.
What are you gonna do?

 

[Jarhyn]

No amount of NATO being in that country by that country's own request, justifies crossing that border.

Tell that to President Kennedy. I feel like I am arguing with cats.
Going in circles.

I would tell that to Kennedy if I had been in a position to know and understand what was going on at the time.

And I am telling it to you now.

Well, nobody told that to Kennedy, your one of the greatest presidents and behaving exactly like Putin.

I would love to have been a president before. I never have been, though, and plenty of people DID tell Kennedy that.

Apparently he did not listen. So what do you want from Putin?

To maybe not repeat the mistakes of the past, and not invade countries unilaterally.

You are the one repeating the same mistake.

That doesn't even answer my statement.

Ukraine asked NATO to be there. Because Russia was getting ready to invade.

 

[Jarhyn]

That's just redicullous. NATO is a defensive alliance to curb Russian aggression. If

I don't believe that for a second. 140 millions don't agree either.
What are you gonna do?

Their agreement with each other does not cause reality to shift to affirm their agreement.

It is just as much an irrational propaganda product as the idea that "Cigarettes are perfectly safe" (they are not).

 

[barbos]

Their agreement with each other does not cause reality to shift to affirm their agreement.

It does not help you.

It is just as much an irrational propaganda product as the idea that "Cigarettes are perfectly safe" (they are not).

What part of "Right hand of Sakkashvili confimed my theory" don't you understand?
You are the victim of the propaganda, not me. And you are the one who brings WW3 closer, the same way you did during Cuban Missile crisis .
You never learned anything.

 

[Jarhyn]

Their agreement with each other does not cause reality to shift to affirm their agreement.

It does not help you.

So, " I may because I can, and might makes right, who cares what reality is I HAVE A PROPAGANDA MACHINE!"

You are essentially arguing that propaganda swings reality. It does not; it just swings bad faith.

You are here admitting to not caring about bad faith, and ascribing to "Might Makes Right, what are you gonna do about it?"

So we are at the "so what?" Stage of gaslighting.

It is just as much an irrational propaganda product as the idea that "Cigarettes are perfectly safe" (they are not).

What part of "Right hand of Sakkashvili confimed my theory" don't you understand?

The use of obscure references to a proper name, mostly.

 

[Rhea]

What part of "Right hand of Sakkashvili confimed my theory" don't you understand?
You are the victim of the propaganda, not me. And you are the one who brings WW3 closer, the same way you did during Cuban Missile crises.
You never learned anything.

Wow. This is so interesting.

 

[barbos]

This is going nowhere.
Why am I even doing that when I can watch Dr. Who?
Seriously? why? it's been 8 years. And you learned absolutely nothing!
I know how Mearsheimer feels, At least he is old and lived his life.

 

[Jarhyn]

This is going nowhere.

I'm pretty sure it's going to "world war 3 because Russian forces stormed a border."

 

[barbos]

I am done here, pointless waste of time.