Hunter Biden spent over $850k in one year on hookers and blow

[thebeave]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know. It depends not only on the volume and content of the CM, but who potentially had access and how long was the material in a vulnerable state. In Biden's case, IIRC, some of the material dated back decades to his Senator days. So, a random burglar, the lawn mower guy, housekeeper, building contractor, firemen, family friend, neighbor, etc could have had access. Or, worse, someone with nefarious intentions. With Trump at least, he presumably has SS protection at Mar-a-Lago, so that sorta limits who can enter his personal space.

I had a secret level clearance (with additional special access clearances) for years with a defense contractor. You would be seriously reprimanded, if not fired, if you left a classified document unattended on your desk for 5 minutes to take a whiz. The idea that either Trump or Biden or Pence could/would do what they did would be absolutely outrageous and unimaginable. As I recall, you were in the Navy, so I assume you recognize the seriousness of the security breach and potential damage from both presidents.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

 

[thebeave]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipped about such matters.

 

[Patooka]

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipped about such matters.

It's not odd at all. You're just leaving a shit ton of context. You've got to remember at the time all everyone knew was "Trump has some classified documents at his place". Few people were aware of how much and how sensitive the documents were. But if there is one thing American politics does well its whataboutism. In fact, I find it very difficult to believe Pence and Biden were the *only* politicians doing some CYA - they were probably the only two the media thought were worth reporting.

 

[thebeave]

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipped about such matters.

It's not odd at all. You're just leaving a shit ton of context. You've got to remember at the time all everyone knew was "Trump has some classified documents at his place". Few people were aware of how much and how sensitive the documents were. But if there is one thing American politics does well its whataboutism. In fact, I find it very difficult to believe Pence and Biden were the *only* politicians doing some CYA - they were probably the only two the media thought were worth reporting.

Well you are right about whataboutism. At least in this forum. This thread went from Hunter Biden spending money on hookers in the OP to "How much did Trump spend on hookers?" on the second post, 16 minutes later. With five people posting a thumbs-up Like.

 

[ZiprHead]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipp0ed about such matters.

Biden's homes were never "swarmed with agents" looking for CM. It was Biden's own lawyers he had looking in case something was inadvertently missed.

 

[Ford]

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipp0ed about such matters.

Biden's homes were never "swarmed with agents" looking for CM. It was Biden's own lawyers he had looking in case something was inadvertently missed.

Which presents an opportunity to bring things back to Hunter and the issue of responsibility.

A few days ago, the original owner of the infamous laptop showed up on Capitol Hill and made a speech. Was it staged for the cameras? Of course. He was publicly challenging the House GOP's subpoena to testify behind closed doors, so on that level it was a political thing, but in his speech he took responsibility for his actions. In short, he said "I fucked up, I admit that, and this is all on me. I am here. Come at me, bro."

Compare and contrast that with Trump's kids, who have taken more fifths on the stand than Jack Daniels could sell in a single day.

When it comes to personal responsibility, there is a vast gulf between Biden and Trump. Whataboutism drowns in that gulf.

 

[thebeave]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipp0ed about such matters.

Biden's homes were never "swarmed with agents" looking for CM. It was Biden's own lawyers he had looking in case something was inadvertently missed.

Lawyers are agents:

Agent definition

An agent is a person authorized to act on behalf of another person. The party an agent is authorized to act for is known as the principal. A principal-agent relationship can either be intentionally created or created by implication through one’s actions.

 

[Patooka]

Well you are right about whataboutism. At least in this forum. This thread went from Hunter Biden spending money on hookers in the OP to "How much did Trump spend on hookers?" on the second post, 16 minutes later. With five people posting a thumbs-up Like.

Considering Hunter only ever comes up in conversations involving Presidential politics, I'd say it's fair game. I don't view it so much as whataboutism as pointing out how bad faith RVonse's argument is seeing are there are more pertinent examples about.
If it was truly whataboutism, people would be bending over backwards to defend Hunter and yet the most people can muster is "nope...don't really give a fuck". But you keep dying on that hill if you like. Nice deflection by the way.

 

[ZiprHead]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipp0ed about such matters.

Biden's homes were never "swarmed with agents" looking for CM. It was Biden's own lawyers he had looking in case something was inadvertently missed.

Lawyers are agents:

Agent definition

An agent is a person authorized to act on behalf of another person. The party an agent is authorized to act for is known as the principal. A principal-agent relationship can either be intentionally created or created by implication through one’s actions.

Horse crap. You clearly implied law enforcement agents with the "squeal" or "fishing expedition" remarks. You're not fooling anyone and now you look completely dishonest.

 

[thebeave]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipp0ed about such matters.

Biden's homes were never "swarmed with agents" looking for CM. It was Biden's own lawyers he had looking in case something was inadvertently missed.

Lawyers are agents:

Agent definition

An agent is a person authorized to act on behalf of another person. The party an agent is authorized to act for is known as the principal. A principal-agent relationship can either be intentionally created or created by implication through one’s actions.

Horse crap. You clearly implied law enforcement agents with the "squeal" or "fishing expedition" remarks. You're not fooling anyone and now you look completely dishonest.

You're right. I was thinking government agents when I wrote that. I did the "lawyers are agents" just to ruffle your feathers. Looks like it worked.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipped about such matters.

It's not odd at all. You're just leaving a shit ton of context. You've got to remember at the time all everyone knew was "Trump has some classified documents at his place". Few people were aware of how much and how sensitive the documents were. But if there is one thing American politics does well its whataboutism. In fact, I find it very difficult to believe Pence and Biden were the *only* politicians doing some CYA - they were probably the only two the media thought were worth reporting.

Well you are right about whataboutism. At least in this forum. This thread went from Hunter Biden spending money on hookers in the OP to "How much did Trump spend on hookers?" on the second post, 16 minutes later. With five people posting a thumbs-up Like.

Well, part of it is that Trump was the president. And he's running again. Most dems that know can care less about Hunter. We all need to make a judgement on Trump. I could care less about Hunter.

 

[Shadowy Man]

You're right. I was thinking government agents when I wrote that. I did the "lawyers are agents" just to ruffle your feathers. Looks like it worked.

That’s right down there with drawing a square on a circle to try to convince someone a circle can have corners.

 

[ZiprHead]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipp0ed about such matters.

Biden's homes were never "swarmed with agents" looking for CM. It was Biden's own lawyers he had looking in case something was inadvertently missed.

Lawyers are agents:

Agent definition

An agent is a person authorized to act on behalf of another person. The party an agent is authorized to act for is known as the principal. A principal-agent relationship can either be intentionally created or created by implication through one’s actions.

Horse crap. You clearly implied law enforcement agents with the "squeal" or "fishing expedition" remarks. You're not fooling anyone and now you look completely dishonest.

You're right. I was thinking government agents when I wrote that. I did the "lawyers are agents" just to ruffle your feathers. Looks like it worked.

Ah, so trolling. At least you admit it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

Ah... passive aggressive conservatism.

I googled "passive aggressive conservatism", as I have never heard that term before. Nothing definitive shows up. I think its something you just now made up.

Did you look up the word "adjective"?

Unlike this:

Ad Hominem Fallacy

Ad hominem fallacy (or ad hominem) is an attempt to discredit someone’s argument by personally attacking them. Instead of discussing the argument itself, criticism is directed toward the opponent’s character, which is irrelevant to the discussion.

Ad hominem fallacy is often used as a diversion tactic to shift attention to an unrelated point like a person’s character or motives and avoid addressing the actual issue. It is common in both formal and informal contexts, ranging from political debates to online discussions.

My response isn't an Ad Hominem... it is an accurate portrayal of your post. Trying to say you were joking (passive), but completely right (aggressive) is exactly what you were doing there.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipp0ed about such matters.

Biden's homes were never "swarmed with agents" looking for CM. It was Biden's own lawyers he had looking in case something was inadvertently missed.

Lawyers are agents:

Agent definition

An agent is a person authorized to act on behalf of another person. The party an agent is authorized to act for is known as the principal. A principal-agent relationship can either be intentionally created or created by implication through one’s actions.

Um, no. It's an "attorney-client" relationship, not an "agent-principal" relationship. I've never gone to court and said, "Good morning your honor, Colonel Sanders, agent on behalf of principal, Ms. Smith, who is standing to my right and has been sworn in."

It's intellectually dishonest to refer to Biden's own lawyers being at his house and then say the place was swarming with agents. That's some "technically correct is the best kind of correct" bullshit that signals a hopeless Hail Mary by the side who has nothing lose because they've already lost.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipp0ed about such matters.

Biden's homes were never "swarmed with agents" looking for CM. It was Biden's own lawyers he had looking in case something was inadvertently missed.

Lawyers are agents:

Agent definition

An agent is a person authorized to act on behalf of another person. The party an agent is authorized to act for is known as the principal. A principal-agent relationship can either be intentionally created or created by implication through one’s actions.

Um, no. It's an "attorney-client" relationship, not an "agent-principal" relationship. I've never gone to court and said, "Good morning your honor, Colonel Sanders, agent on behalf of principal, Ms. Smith, who is standing to my right and has been sworn in."

It's intellectually dishonest to refer to Biden's own lawyers being at his house and then say the place was swarming with agents. That's some "technically correct is the best kind of correct" bullshit that signals a hopeless Hail Mary by the side who has nothing lose because they've already lost.

"Pedantry is the last refuge of the witless"

 

[thebeave]

Neither Biden's or Trump's kids needed security clearances. Hunter could just go dig through boxes in his dad's garage next to the Corvette to get classified material, and Ivanka could just rummage through daddy's closet at Mar-A-Lago.

Are you seriously trying to both sides this?

Well, my comment was meant to be taken as a joke. On the other hand, is there something I said that isn't true?

With Trump's kids being part of his administration, they likely did need security clearances to *perform their jobs. This would not be true of Biden's, of course.
The Corvette/closet attempt at humor was not lost on me but there is a canyon of difference between what Trump did and what Biden & Pence did. Working with classified documents and needing to work from home is par for the course for presidents and vice presidents. Biden and Pence just needed to do some housekeeping. While Trump... well, you know... self-serving, egotistical, narcissistic, list of poor character traits a mile long.



*I'm sure there is a more accurate phrase for whatever it is they did but knowing little of what that was, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and used "perform their jobs".

I never made a claim that what Trump and Biden did with classified material were equivalent, or that one was worse than the other. And your characterization of Trump is largely true. I wouldn't deny that. Ultimately, though, whose mishandling of CM had the potential for greater harm to US security remains unanswered, does it not? And we will probably never know.

I think that, given the available evidence, we can make a reasonable inference of which posed greater harm.

Recall, for instance, that Trump’s CM was actively being sought by the government upon his departure as President whereas nobody appeared to have been particularly bothered by the loss of whatever Biden had.

Perhaps, but it was a little odd that his house was suddenly swarmed with agents looking for CM just weeks/months after they went after Trump. Did someone squeel, or was it a fishing expedition? Why didn't they do it 10 years ago? Also, the fact that nobody appeared publicly bothered doesn't mean much. The government tends to be pretty tight lipp0ed about such matters.

Biden's homes were never "swarmed with agents" looking for CM. It was Biden's own lawyers he had looking in case something was inadvertently missed.

Lawyers are agents:

Agent definition

An agent is a person authorized to act on behalf of another person. The party an agent is authorized to act for is known as the principal. A principal-agent relationship can either be intentionally created or created by implication through one’s actions.

Um, no. It's an "attorney-client" relationship, not an "agent-principal" relationship. I've never gone to court and said, "Good morning your honor, Colonel Sanders, agent on behalf of principal, Ms. Smith, who is standing to my right and has been sworn in."

It's intellectually dishonest to refer to Biden's own lawyers being at his house and then say the place was swarming with agents. That's some "technically correct is the best kind of correct" bullshit that signals a hopeless Hail Mary by the side who has nothing lose because they've already lost.

Well, Google seems to disagree with you about lawyers as agents:

Is a lawyer an agent of a client?

From the first hit (Duke Law Scholarship Repository):

A lawyer acts on behalf of the client, representing the client, with consequences that bind the client. Lawyers act as clients' agents in transactional settings as well as in litigation.

From law. com:

In the course of a representation, lawyers are often looked to—by opposing parties, by courts or even by the media—to represent their clients and provide their clients' positions on legal and factual issues. Because lawyers generally act as their clients' agents, their statements can be legally binding on clients.

There are plenty of other links you can check out. If I'm missing something, let me know. I'm not a legal expert.

With regard to my claim that there were government agents at Biden's house looking for classified materials, that IS in fact correct, contrary to what Ziprhead said and my subsequent (and erroneous) agreement with him that it was just his lawyers there. When you think about it, it has to be true, as Biden's personal lawyers do not, in general, have the authorization to take possession of random piles of classified materials. The government's agents' presence was not made clear in the first few sources I looked at regarding Ziprhead's claim that it was just his lawyers, but a deeper dive revealed otherwise. This video clearly spells out that there were FBI and DOJ agents at the house getting the classified materials:




I will say that my earlier claim about "lawyers are agents" was pedantic and insincere, and I apologize to Ziprhead for misleading him on that. It was not meant to be taken seriously and I regret having done it.