Illegal Immigration - Trump's Fearless Truth to PC Power

[Nice Squirrel]

There are criminals in all communities. There are also several groups of Jewish muggers around the USA comprising of doctors, dentists, lawyers and accountants.

What are you crimes?

Hee hee.






Just a little security check joke. Carry on.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Seeing brown people. Let's face it, when you boil it down illegal immigration is all about racism.

No it's the battle between the racists and xenophobes (against) and the Chamber of Commerce (for). It would be easy to fix the illegal immigration problem. These people come for the money. They don't have jobs at home and they come to the US to gain employment.

THE SAVE OUR COUNTRY FROM THE EFFECTS OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ACT

An Act of Congress. Any employer with more than 50 employees who is convicted of employing an illegal immigrant will face the following penalties

First Offense: Written Warning
Second Offense: $100,000.00 fine
Third Offense: $1,000,000.00 fine.
Fourth Offense: The CEO, all corporate officers and all members of the Board of Directors will be fined $1,000,000.00 and be imprisoned for not less than 50 years with no opportunity for parole. All shareholders will pay a fine 20% of the value of their shares on the date the the employment of the illegal immigrant or the date of the discovery of the employment of the illegal immigrant, whichever results in a greater fine. Any officer or director will be forced to exercise his/her stock options upon conviction and all profits will be confiscated by the government to cover the cost of investigating, convicting and incarcerating the employer of the illegal immigrant.

Once this law takes effect, there will be no employment for illegal immigrants. That means wages will go up and so will prices as we will have to pay more to build our over 55 communities, pick our lettuce, etc......

I take it you don't want hispanics or any legal immigrants to ever have a job.

The problem is the illegals used forged documents. Make the penalty too high and you'll simply see no hiring of anyone who looks like they might possibly be an illegal.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

No it's the battle between the racists and xenophobes (against) and the Chamber of Commerce (for). It would be easy to fix the illegal immigration problem. These people come for the money. They don't have jobs at home and they come to the US to gain employment.

THE SAVE OUR COUNTRY FROM THE EFFECTS OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ACT

An Act of Congress. Any employer with more than 50 employees who is convicted of employing an illegal immigrant will face the following penalties

First Offense: Written Warning
Second Offense: $100,000.00 fine
Third Offense: $1,000,000.00 fine.
Fourth Offense: The CEO, all corporate officers and all members of the Board of Directors will be fined $1,000,000.00 and be imprisoned for not less than 50 years with no opportunity for parole. All shareholders will pay a fine 20% of the value of their shares on the date the the employment of the illegal immigrant or the date of the discovery of the employment of the illegal immigrant, whichever results in a greater fine. Any officer or director will be forced to exercise his/her stock options upon conviction and all profits will be confiscated by the government to cover the cost of investigating, convicting and incarcerating the employer of the illegal immigrant.

Once this law takes effect, there will be no employment for illegal immigrants. That means wages will go up and so will prices as we will have to pay more to build our over 55 communities, pick our lettuce, etc......

I take it you don't want hispanics or any legal immigrants to ever have a job.

The problem is the illegals used forged documents. Make the penalty too high and you'll simply see no hiring of anyone who looks like they might possibly be an illegal.

The I-9 is the godsend to companies because it absolves them of all responsibility for hiring illegal workers.

 

[Sarpedon]

It's hard to imagine how courageous a politically prominent billionaire must be to speak out against penniless immigrants!

 

[fromderinside]

Bogus.

Why?

From WikiPedia:

In 2007, the busiest district courts in terms of criminal federal felony filings were the District of New Mexico,Western District of Texas, Southern District of Texas, and the District of Arizona. These four districts all share the border with Mexico.^[20] A crackdown on illegal immigration resulted in 75 percent of the criminal cases filed in the 94 district courts in 2007 being filed in these four districts and the other district that borders Mexico, theSouthern District of California.^[21]

Except, as you seemed to have missed, the statistics and link referred to 2014, not 2007. In any event, a look at FYE 2007 statistics shows that 75% claim to be unsupported. There was a negligible increase in immigration criminal filings in district courts between 2006 and 2007, less than 1 percent (See Citation Below).

Moreover, what is not bogus is that this sub-population of serial deported border offenders, drug runners, etc. are a significant criminal element (and that, obviously, only includes those who are caught).

http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao/legacy/2008/06/17/07statrpt.pdf

I didn't miss it. I just took evidence that those districts are likely to be inflated because they deal with illegal immigration as well as 'crime' which you obviously missed. Take away that inflated value and crime in the four is about the same as elsewhere.

 

[jab]

I can't help but wonder who would clean all the rooms in his hotels/casinos if we sent all the undocumented workers home.

not to mention who would work on building his buildings?

 

[jab]

Having a serious discussion about something Trump said, however, isn't really a justifiable use of a conversation.

But this speech helped make him numerically very much in the running for the Republican nomination, so a conversation about this and how it resonates with Americans is appropriate.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Having a serious discussion about something Trump said, however, isn't really a justifiable use of a conversation.

But this speech helped make him numerically very much in the running for the Republican nomination, so a conversation about this and how it resonates with Americans is appropriate.

But people aren't really having that conversation. All the GOP guys who have come to defend what Trump said actually defended a less crazy version which was somewhat related to what Trump said and then danced around a bit when it was pointed out that this wasn't actually what Trump had said.

 

[maxparrish]

"I've got mine, fuck the rest of you - particularly if your skin is darker than mine!", may, coming from Trump, be true; but it is hardly laudable.

Nor is his "brave" stance in standing up and saying what he thinks, risking the approbation and support of the large pool of moronic rednecks to whom he is appealing.

Your OP is thinly veiled racist tripe; disguised as mere support for the thinly veiled racist tripe of Trump and his supporters. Throwing a dictionary at it isn't helping to obscure this fact.

Amusing.

...The point is that illegals contribute to undesirables and criminality, the core point of Trump.

The point is that neither he nor you can demonstrate this to be true, other than in the tautological and trivial sense that it is illegal to live and work in the US without the required documents.

Perhaps the parents of Kate Steinle, murdered in the sanctuary city of San Francisco last week by an illegal alien (who had been deported five times with seven felonies on his record) would be happy to hear your denial. For those of a less obdurate sensibility they need only to read a newspaper. For example, the day after Steinle was murdered, the Associated Press reported that four members of the Mexican mafia had been arrested for the murder of two Americans, Traci Lynn Lemley and Jeremy Carrico, in San Antonio, Texas. In fact, on the same day, AP reported:

-- In New Jersey, an illegal alien from Ecuador was indicted for attempting to murder his ex-wife by stabbing her with a steak knife in front of one of their children. (Gosh -- I hope all those kids were born here, so the media can start referring to them as "American citizens" right away.)

-- An illegal immigrant from Mexico, Juan Francisco de Luna Vasquez, murdered his wife with a hammer in Laredo, Texas. Vasquez had previously been charged with assault, making terroristic threats, DWI and evading arrest.

And the next day:

-- Prudencio Juan Fragos-Ramirez, an illegal alien in Washington state, was accused of murdering an 18-year-old and her toddler son, then setting the pair on fire.

-- Illegal immigrant Sinar Roblero Escalante found out he would get off scot-free for killing a 24-year-old man in East Naples, Florida, 10 years ago in a car accident. After the crash, Escalante had fled the scene on foot. He went on the lam and is believed to have hid out in Mexico for at least part of that time -- thus, outlasting the statute of limitations. Escalante was recently re-arrested after being caught in his car with a baggie of cocaine on his lap.

-- In another immigration success story, Andrew Romero assaulted a prison guard in New Mexico last week. Romero is awaiting trial on charges that he murdered Rio Rancho Police officer Gregg Benner.

-- On Monday, an illegal alien from Mexico engaged in a fatal hit-and-run accident in Bellingham, Washington, then fled the scene of the accident. Witnesses described a "short Hispanic man" running from the car, which was littered with empty beer bottles and a case of Modelo Especial. The illegal farm worker doesn't speak English, but he was able to ask for an attorney in Spanish.

- See more at: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ann-co...many-more-americans-isis#sthash.JKmq4jzr.dpuf

Trump's comments that inspired the article in the OP and, indirectly, the OP itself, were not even about 'illegals'. He was talking about legal migration to the US from Mexico.

That you conflate the legal and illegal groups, as no doubt Trump hoped many would, is unsurprising - but it is rather disappointing.

Actually, Trump was speaking of Mexican immigration as a whole (legal and illegal), which underscores my larger point of Mexican (and Central American) immigration's disproportionate contribution to domestic crime. The usual crime and incarceration rate as a rough rule of thumb ratio among whites, Hispanics, and blacks are approximately 1:3:7, but the Hispanic incarceration rate has grown faster than that of whites or blacks. In fact, the incarceration rate of Mexican immigrants jumps more than eightfold between the first and second generations, resulting in a prison rate up to 3.5 times that of whites. (Heather McDonald)

Indeed, unless one believes you can stop these immigrants from having children, the children of immigrants assimilate downward: "sociologists Alejandro Portes of Princeton and Ruben G. Rumbaut of the University of California, Irvine, followed the children of immigrants in San Diego and Miami from 1992 to 2003. A whopping 28 percent of Mexican-American American males between the ages of eighteen and twenty-four four reported having been arrested since 1995, and 20 percent reported having been incarcerated-a rate twice that of other immigrant groups." (HM)

It seems that any part of what Trump says that we successfully demonstrate to be bullshit was, in your assessment, 'non-core'; if we are to believe you, his core point still stands as a shining beacon of truth, despite having been whittled down to nothing.

Trump said a bunch of stuff about immigrants from Mexico. None of it stands up to scrutiny; it is all just populist xenophobic bullshit, designed to appeal to the redneck GOP base who are convinced that the only reason they haven't had employers lining up at their trailer park to drag them off the couch and give them a well paid job (that doesn't require putting down their beer or TV remote) is that Mexicans have stolen all the jobs from them.

There is no 'core point', just a 'core sentiment' - brown people are not real Americans, and Americans, be they never such pathetic losers, can look down on them. His words were said with a view to emotional, not rational, point scoring.

Nonsense. No one has "successfully" shown any of my statistics to be bullshit; rather, I have demonstrated that border district courts have sentenced illegals for many reasons...most of them related to their criminality (directly or indirectly). The poster who made dubious claims on 2007 data should have done a little more research than Wikipedia:

And "We do know from studies of U.S. District Court statistics that more than 1,000 people per month are charged for re-entry after deportation, a federal felony, and that the majority of these individuals have serious criminal histories." (CIS)

And I thought it was clear that I believe Trumps choice of words, phrases, and specifics are, more often than not, daffy. While Mexico does not send its best, it "sends" a lot more non-violent, non-rapists than rapists. I have no idea if illegal and/or legal immigrants commit rape at a higher or lower rate than native born whites , but the truth behind his crass unsupported claim is a general proposition:

Immigration from Mexico and Central America contribute to violent crime, more than any other immigrant group. In particular illegals and second generation children of immigrants are the most likely to commit a crime of violence.

This has nothing to do with race, but with the groups cost to innocent Americans. SE Asians, Jews, Indians, Cubans, Nordics and other Western Europeans have all demonstrated they are most likely of much net benefit to most of the native born. Not so of Mexicans, Central Americans, Africans and (perhaps) Russians.

The facts speak.

Heather Mac Donald;Victor Davis Hanson;Steven Malanga. The Immigration Solution: A Better Plan Than Today's (Kindle Location 1438). Kindle Edition.

http://cis.org/ImmigrantCrime
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0...laws-deportation-mexico-say-no-to-reform.html

 

[TSwizzle]

I can't help but wonder who would clean all the rooms in his hotels/casinos if we sent all the undocumented workers home.

"Undocumented" From now on I shall refer to bank robberies as "undocumented withdrawals". Superb.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Perhaps the parents of Kate Steinle, murdered in the sanctuary city of San Francisco last week by an illegal alien (who had been deported five times with seven felonies on his record) would be happy to hear your denial. For those of a less obdurate sensibility they need only to read a newspaper. For example, the day after Steinle was murdered, the Associated Press reported that four members of the Mexican mafia had been arrested for the murder of two Americans, Traci Lynn Lemley and Jeremy Carrico, in San Antonio, Texas.

I can red herring too.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There are criminals in all communities. There are also several groups of Jewish muggers around the USA comprising of doctors, dentists, lawyers and accountants.

What are you crimes?

Hee hee.






Just a little security check joke. Carry on.

Must be my partly Jewish heritage.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Illegal immigration does far less harm than the right-wing economic policies endorsed by Donny.

But poverty and crime do go hand in hand.

When economic and political policies create one the other becomes a problem.

Some rich people commit crimes too.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I can't help but wonder who would clean all the rooms in his hotels/casinos if we sent all the undocumented workers home.

The hotel rooms, casinos and other low paid work would be filled as they always were when there were insufficient immigrants. Employers would be forced to pay a higher wage to attract people instead of cut price labour to undercut local workers into unemployment or accept peanuts. I've never heard of hotels where the guests had no cleaners.

 

[untermensche]

Illegal immigration does far less harm than the right-wing economic policies endorsed by Donny.

But poverty and crime do go hand in hand.

When economic and political policies create one the other becomes a problem.

Some rich people commit crimes too.

The rich write the laws, that is the difference.

 

[blastula]

Donald Trump is crass, simplistic, bombastic, over-generalizing, and always gushing with various populist prejudices - many of them nonsensical. But at the core of his recent rants he also happens to have a valid point on immigration. And it is his honesty and economic security that allows him to be plain spoken on immigration - in spite of the usual social media bullying and the ritual excoriation by the corporate-kulture thought police.

Many harbor similar thoughts, but have become too fearful of social-economic punishment (if not destruction) should they express them. Not so for King Donald.

And he is, at its core, correct. Quite aside from the unusual amount of criminality among those of Mexican and Central American origin, including illegals, he was correct: even by Mexico's low standards, they don't send their best.

Of all immigrants to the US, the Mexican's have the lowest level of education, made the least progress, and have the highest level of means tested welfare. 60 percent have failed to graduate from high school; after they arrive 35 percent of them and their US born children live in poverty and 68 percent are either near or in poverty. 57 percent require means-tested government programs to subsidize their "yearning to be free" (or was that a yearning for the free?).

And while they do make progress, even after two decades on almost every indicator they are far behind the native born population, as well as immigrants from every other country. (And after here twenty years, their welfare rate INCREASES).

For all its crassness, Trump’s rant on immigration is closer to reality than the gauzy clichés of the immigration romantics unwilling to acknowledge that there might be an issue welcoming large numbers of high school dropouts into a 21st-century economy. If we don’t want to add to the ranks of the poor, the uninsured and the welfare dependent, we should have fewer low-skilled immigrants — assuming saying that is not yet officially considered a hate crime.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...d-trump-has-a-point-119662.html#ixzz3fMMtUid6

This time the hysterics are dealing with someone of means, not a lone family baker, free-lance photographer or an executive at little Mozilla. Trump can stand against the winds that blow, and the more they pile on, the more popular he gets.

Interesting.

So true, Max. I have never heard any other Republican ignorantly yet freely demonizing immigrants like Trump has. Such craven demagoguery is so novel among Republicans. Such a breath of fresh air. And so astute of you to spot this.

Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!

 

[bilby]

Amusing.

...The point is that illegals contribute to undesirables and criminality, the core point of Trump.

The point is that neither he nor you can demonstrate this to be true, other than in the tautological and trivial sense that it is illegal to live and work in the US without the required documents.

Perhaps the parents of Kate Steinle, murdered in the sanctuary city of San Francisco last week by an illegal alien (who had been deported five times with seven felonies on his record) would be happy to hear your denial. For those of a less obdurate sensibility they need only to read a newspaper. For example, the day after Steinle was murdered, the Associated Press reported that four members of the Mexican mafia had been arrested for the murder of two Americans, Traci Lynn Lemley and Jeremy Carrico, in San Antonio, Texas. In fact, on the same day, AP reported:

-- In New Jersey, an illegal alien from Ecuador was indicted for attempting to murder his ex-wife by stabbing her with a steak knife in front of one of their children. (Gosh -- I hope all those kids were born here, so the media can start referring to them as "American citizens" right away.)

-- An illegal immigrant from Mexico, Juan Francisco de Luna Vasquez, murdered his wife with a hammer in Laredo, Texas. Vasquez had previously been charged with assault, making terroristic threats, DWI and evading arrest.

And the next day:

-- Prudencio Juan Fragos-Ramirez, an illegal alien in Washington state, was accused of murdering an 18-year-old and her toddler son, then setting the pair on fire.

-- Illegal immigrant Sinar Roblero Escalante found out he would get off scot-free for killing a 24-year-old man in East Naples, Florida, 10 years ago in a car accident. After the crash, Escalante had fled the scene on foot. He went on the lam and is believed to have hid out in Mexico for at least part of that time -- thus, outlasting the statute of limitations. Escalante was recently re-arrested after being caught in his car with a baggie of cocaine on his lap.

-- In another immigration success story, Andrew Romero assaulted a prison guard in New Mexico last week. Romero is awaiting trial on charges that he murdered Rio Rancho Police officer Gregg Benner.

-- On Monday, an illegal alien from Mexico engaged in a fatal hit-and-run accident in Bellingham, Washington, then fled the scene of the accident. Witnesses described a "short Hispanic man" running from the car, which was littered with empty beer bottles and a case of Modelo Especial. The illegal farm worker doesn't speak English, but he was able to ask for an attorney in Spanish.

- See more at: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ann-co...many-more-americans-isis#sthash.JKmq4jzr.dpuf

Someone was murdered in America?? OMG!!!

But, of course, all the murderers and criminals in your examples are from the same 'group'. That makes your claims compelling (because there is no need to consider whether anyone from outside that 'group' might also be a criminal). That 'group' is clearly evil, and it is essential to the security of the USA that they be deported forthwith. SEND ALL MEN TO MEXICO!!! America will never be safe until only women remain.

Seriously, I have seen five year olds present arguments with a stronger grasp of logic and reason than this shit.

Trump's comments that inspired the article in the OP and, indirectly, the OP itself, were not even about 'illegals'. He was talking about legal migration to the US from Mexico.

That you conflate the legal and illegal groups, as no doubt Trump hoped many would, is unsurprising - but it is rather disappointing.

Actually, Trump was speaking of Mexican immigration as a whole (legal and illegal), which underscores my larger point of Mexican (and Central American) immigration's disproportionate contribution to domestic crime. The usual crime and incarceration rate as a rough rule of thumb ratio among whites, Hispanics, and blacks are approximately 1:3:7, but the Hispanic incarceration rate has grown faster than that of whites or blacks. In fact, the incarceration rate of Mexican immigrants jumps more than eightfold between the first and second generations, resulting in a prison rate up to 3.5 times that of whites. (Heather McDonald)

Indeed, unless one believes you can stop these immigrants from having children, the children of immigrants assimilate downward: "sociologists Alejandro Portes of Princeton and Ruben G. Rumbaut of the University of California, Irvine, followed the children of immigrants in San Diego and Miami from 1992 to 2003. A whopping 28 percent of Mexican-American American males between the ages of eighteen and twenty-four four reported having been arrested since 1995, and 20 percent reported having been incarcerated-a rate twice that of other immigrant groups." (HM)

It seems that any part of what Trump says that we successfully demonstrate to be bullshit was, in your assessment, 'non-core'; if we are to believe you, his core point still stands as a shining beacon of truth, despite having been whittled down to nothing.

Trump said a bunch of stuff about immigrants from Mexico. None of it stands up to scrutiny; it is all just populist xenophobic bullshit, designed to appeal to the redneck GOP base who are convinced that the only reason they haven't had employers lining up at their trailer park to drag them off the couch and give them a well paid job (that doesn't require putting down their beer or TV remote) is that Mexicans have stolen all the jobs from them.

There is no 'core point', just a 'core sentiment' - brown people are not real Americans, and Americans, be they never such pathetic losers, can look down on them. His words were said with a view to emotional, not rational, point scoring.

Nonsense. No one has "successfully" shown any of my statistics to be bullshit; rather, I have demonstrated that border district courts have sentenced illegals for many reasons...most of them related to their criminality (directly or indirectly). The poster who made dubious claims on 2007 data should have done a little more research than Wikipedia:

And "We do know from studies of U.S. District Court statistics that more than 1,000 people per month are charged for re-entry after deportation, a federal felony, and that the majority of these individuals have serious criminal histories." (CIS)

And I thought it was clear that I believe Trumps choice of words, phrases, and specifics are, more often than not, daffy. While Mexico does not send its best, it "sends" a lot more non-violent, non-rapists than rapists. I have no idea if illegal and/or legal immigrants commit rape at a higher or lower rate than native born whites , but the truth behind his crass unsupported claim is a general proposition:

Immigration from Mexico and Central America contribute to violent crime, more than any other immigrant group. In particular illegals and second generation children of immigrants are the most likely to commit a crime of violence.

This has nothing to do with race, but with the groups cost to innocent Americans. SE Asians, Jews, Indians, Cubans, Nordics and other Western Europeans have all demonstrated they are most likely of much net benefit to most of the native born. Not so of Mexicans, Central Americans, Africans and (perhaps) Russians.

The facts speak.

Heather Mac Donald;Victor Davis Hanson;Steven Malanga. The Immigration Solution: A Better Plan Than Today's (Kindle Location 1438). Kindle Edition.

http://cis.org/ImmigrantCrime
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0...laws-deportation-mexico-say-no-to-reform.html

Ahh. I see. It's not racist; you are not talking about a race, you are talking about a group. Who happen to be the group known as 'Hispanic'.

Your pathetic and illogical groupist diatribe does you no credit.

 

[bilby]

I can't help but wonder who would clean all the rooms in his hotels/casinos if we sent all the undocumented workers home.

The hotel rooms, casinos and other low paid work would be filled as they always were when there were insufficient immigrants. Employers would be forced to pay a higher wage to attract people instead of cut price labour to undercut local workers into unemployment or accept peanuts. I've never heard of hotels where the guests had no cleaners.

Evidently you have never been to Manchester.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I take it you don't want hispanics or any legal immigrants to ever have a job.

The problem is the illegals used forged documents. Make the penalty too high and you'll simply see no hiring of anyone who looks like they might possibly be an illegal.

The I-9 is the godsend to companies because it absolves them of all responsibility for hiring illegal workers.

All responsibility? I would think that they would still be liable for accepting obviously fake documents.

Also, I don't want to see the rules too tight at present--the problem is identity theft. An illegal working with forged papers is less of a problem than an illegal working with forged papers and a stolen identity. Until we can stop the identity theft epidemic I don't see that we should be pushing illegals into committing identity theft.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The I-9 is the godsend to companies because it absolves them of all responsibility for hiring illegal workers.

All responsibility? I would think that they would still be liable for accepting obviously fake documents.

Actually, all responsibility. There is no required training for spotting fake documents, and no photocopies are required. All the employer has to state is that they saw the ID and that it determine if it "reasonably appears to be genuine and to relate to the person presenting."

I could drive a truck through that loophole.

From the I-9: Employers may, but are not required to, photocopy the document(s) presented.

[guido accent]"And when I saw the ID, it looked genuine but I ain't no expert on out of state IDs."[/guido accent]