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Immigration Issues

Jimmy Higgins said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
steve_bank said:
Hiring illegals is illegal.
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If you dig deep enough, you'll find the government at the root of most problems.
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You are thinking of greed. Government can't be trusted, big business can't be trusted, the general population can't be trusted. What do they all have in common, they consist of people. That is nature, people are flawed. Libertarians are deluded in their unjustified position that the people are not flawed. Libertarians will blame institutions of people, but not people in general.
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Greed without government is someone saying "I want that" over and over. Greed with government is using violence or the threat of violence to enrich the person using the government. It is no different from a simple mugger or shoplifter but for some reason people think it is acceptable when using the right label.
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You make it sound like sociopaths are powerless without government. A Government is just a broader collaborative of population control. There will always be people in control, whether it is a mob or functioning government. The smaller the groups, the easier it is for sociopaths to take over. This is why power vacuums are so dangerous. Those who are so bold to takeover usually aren't the best of people.

Libertarians are often like the Utopianists in America back in the 19th century, where they thought they could create small collaborative communes. They never worked in the end.
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If a mugger comes up to me and threatens violence, nobody would question a violent response. Give that mugger a title and a badge and suddenly statist utopian boot-lickers think the demand is the most proper thing they've ever seen and any resistance a crime.
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Political metaphors usually suck, but this one puts all others to shame at sucking, as this could create a vacuum in a large warehouse! It didn't address anything, and leaned heavily on the Libertarian misplaced pride of being able to defend against any threat.

If you get mugged, you can just kill the mugger. Of course, if the mugger now has a clan of other muggers with them and are a mob... and armed? Let's look at Gaza and see how well Libertarianism works.
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So if the mugger is an agent of the government, got it. How does that boot taste?
 
Patooka said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
steve_bank said:
Hiring illegals is illegal.
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If you dig deep enough, you'll find the government at the root of most problems.
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Shouldn't you be busy apologising on behalf of Trump and explaining how Biden is the real reason your country is close to invading Iran? I thought you libertarians were anti-war.
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No. Shouldn't you be busy doing that? You're the one who believes in government, not me. I have just returned and already made a post against war with Iran.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Political metaphors usually suck, but this one puts all others to shame at sucking, as this could create a vacuum in a large warehouse! It didn't address anything, and leaned heavily on the Libertarian misplaced pride of being able to defend against any threat.

If you get mugged, you can just kill the mugger. Of course, if the mugger now has a clan of other muggers with them and are a mob... and armed? Let's look at Gaza and see how well Libertarianism works.
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So if the mugger is an agent of the government, got it. How does that boot taste?
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What is the difference between it being a Government agent and an armed mob which is in lieu of a Government? A boot in the head is a boot in the head.

 
Judge orders Abrego Garcia’s release, but government expected to detain him

Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was mistakenly deported by the Trump administration to El Salvador then returned to the U.S. amid a legal battle, was ordered released from jail on Sunday by a Tennessee judge while he awaits federal trial.

The government, however, is expected to quickly detain him upon his release, which U.S. Magistrate Judge Barbara Holmes scheduled a Wednesday hearing to discuss.

The Justice Department has filed a motion to appeal the judge’s release order.

At a detention hearing on June 13, prosecutors said U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) would take Abrego Garcia into custody if he were released on the criminal charges, and he could be deported before he has a chance to stand trial.

The new charges stem from a 2022 traffic stop in Tennessee. Abrego Garcia was stopped for speeding, and an officer questioned why he was traveling with so many people without luggage.

The indictment alleges Abrego Garcia falsely told the officer he was driving construction workers from St. Louis, but he was actually on one of multiple trips organized to transport migrants who were living in the country without legal status.

Attorneys for Abrego Garcia have cast the case as one of trumped-up charges and a way for the administration to save face after allowing him to be wrongly imprisoned for nearly three months.
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Because citizenship is extremely difficult and expensive to acquire, many people will take deferred actions and so forth if they are offered, foolishly trusting the government when it lies and says that legal documents make them a legal resident.
 
Has anyone mentioned the cruel decision by SCOTUS regarding returning immigrants to countries they have never lived in? Maybe I missed it as I no longer read every post in these threads that accomplish nothing but this is worthy of discussing imo. I'm sharing one of my last few articles for the month of June.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/23/...e_code=1.Rk8.zmZ6._mMooDDd_iy4&smid=url-share

The Supreme Court on Monday allowed the Trump administration to deport migrants to countries other than their own, pausing a federal judge’s ruling that said they must first be given a chance to show that they would face the risk of torture and potentially clearing the way for the administration to send men held at an American military base in Djibouti to South Sudan.

The court’s order gave no reasons and said the judge’s ruling would remain paused while the government pursues an appeal and, after that, until the Supreme Court acts. The court’s three liberal members issued a lengthy dissent.

The order was the latest in a series of rulings related to immigration decided by the justices in summary fashion on what critics call the court’s shadow docket. Two allowed the administration to lift protections for hundreds of thousands of people who had been granted temporary protected status or humanitarian parole.

But others insisted on due process — notice and an opportunity to be heard — for migrants before they are deported. Monday’s ruling moved in a different direction, refusing to allow migrants to make the case that they would face torture if sent to places with which they have no connection.
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This decision is sickening and not even one of the conservative judges did the right thing. How disgusting and cruel can Trump and his allies get? We need these immigrants and even if they are deported, at least send them back to their own countries, assuming they won't be subjected to the likelihood of being killed or imprisoned while committing no crimes. Read the entire article for more information. This type of cruelty is something we should all be fighting, if not physically, at least by supporting organizations that are trying to fight this and by educating people who don't understand what's going on or how much we need more immigrants, not fewer. :mad:
 
Politesse said:
Because citizenship is extremely difficult and expensive to acquire, many people will take deferred actions and so forth if they are offered, foolishly trusting the government when it lies and says that legal documents make them a legal resident.
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Sucking Trump’s dick mskes you a legal resident.
 
Politesse said:
Because citizenship is extremely difficult and expensive to acquire, many people will take deferred actions and so forth if they are offered, foolishly trusting the government when it lies and says that legal documents make them a legal resident.
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For a permanent resident/green card holder the citizen application is reasonably straight forward and it costs about $700 to apply, non refundable of course. You can apply for US citizenship after being a permanent resident after five years (IIRC). The process took me about a year after I filed but could be longer now.
 
They do not think of "Foreignness" as a property specific to any particular country. If a child was brought here illegally, what could be seen as immoral about deporting them to a overseas war zone where they have never been, have nowhere to stay, know no one, and don't speak the language. It's not technically murder if you don't see the end result.

southernhybrid said:
Has anyone mentioned the cruel decision by SCOTUS regarding returning immigrants to countries they have never lived in? Maybe I missed it as I no longer read every post in these threads that accomplish nothing but this is worthy of discussing imo. I'm sharing one of my last few articles for the month of June.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/23/...e_code=1.Rk8.zmZ6._mMooDDd_iy4&smid=url-share

The Supreme Court on Monday allowed the Trump administration to deport migrants to countries other than their own, pausing a federal judge’s ruling that said they must first be given a chance to show that they would face the risk of torture and potentially clearing the way for the administration to send men held at an American military base in Djibouti to South Sudan.

The court’s order gave no reasons and said the judge’s ruling would remain paused while the government pursues an appeal and, after that, until the Supreme Court acts. The court’s three liberal members issued a lengthy dissent.

The order was the latest in a series of rulings related to immigration decided by the justices in summary fashion on what critics call the court’s shadow docket. Two allowed the administration to lift protections for hundreds of thousands of people who had been granted temporary protected status or humanitarian parole.

But others insisted on due process — notice and an opportunity to be heard — for migrants before they are deported. Monday’s ruling moved in a different direction, refusing to allow migrants to make the case that they would face torture if sent to places with which they have no connection.
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This decision is sickening and not even one of the conservative judges did the right thing. How disgusting and cruel can Trump and his allies get? We need these immigrants and even if they are deported, at least send them back to their own countries, assuming they won't be subjected to the likelihood of being killed or imprisoned while committing no crimes. Read the entire article for more information. This type of cruelty is something we should all be fighting, if not physically, at least by supporting organizations that are trying to fight this and by educating people who don't understand what's going on or how much we need more immigrants, not fewer. :mad:
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southernhybrid said:
Has anyone mentioned the cruel decision by SCOTUS regarding returning immigrants to countries they have never lived in? Maybe I missed it as I no longer read every post in these threads that accomplish nothing but this is worthy of discussing imo. I'm sharing one of my last few articles for the month of June.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/23/...e_code=1.Rk8.zmZ6._mMooDDd_iy4&smid=url-share

The Supreme Court on Monday allowed the Trump administration to deport migrants to countries other than their own, pausing a federal judge’s ruling that said they must first be given a chance to show that they would face the risk of torture and potentially clearing the way for the administration to send men held at an American military base in Djibouti to South Sudan.

The court’s order gave no reasons and said the judge’s ruling would remain paused while the government pursues an appeal and, after that, until the Supreme Court acts. The court’s three liberal members issued a lengthy dissent.

The order was the latest in a series of rulings related to immigration decided by the justices in summary fashion on what critics call the court’s shadow docket. Two allowed the administration to lift protections for hundreds of thousands of people who had been granted temporary protected status or humanitarian parole.

But others insisted on due process — notice and an opportunity to be heard — for migrants before they are deported. Monday’s ruling moved in a different direction, refusing to allow migrants to make the case that they would face torture if sent to places with which they have no connection.
Click to expand...

This decision is sickening and not even one of the conservative judges did the right thing. How disgusting and cruel can Trump and his allies get? We need these immigrants and even if they are deported, at least send them back to their own countries, assuming they won't be subjected to the likelihood of being killed or imprisoned while committing no crimes. Read the entire article for more information. This type of cruelty is something we should all be fighting, if not physically, at least by supporting organizations that are trying to fight this and by educating people who don't understand what's going on or how much we need more immigrants, not fewer. :mad:
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I brought it up in some other thread... or maybe this one. In many cases SCOTUS will defer to the Executive... especially this court... when it is a Republican in office. They had flirted with holding the Trump Admin's actions against it... but in this case, they are simply offering deference to the Executive Branch, regardless of the contempt they have already shown the court system.
 
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