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Is Georgia on your mind?

What is the source of this supposed bar registration card?
It was originally dug up by WaPo I believe. Aggressive paywall, I know. Snopes had an article about it too, when it broke.
Did Sen. Elizabeth Warren Describe Her Race as ‘American Indian’ on Her 1986 Texas Bar Card?

I'm asking because I never saw it before
You never saw it before? Are you sure? You participated in threads in which it was brought up.
Warren's Native American heritage gaffe
In this post of the Elizabeth Warren claims Michael Brown was "murdered" thread you reply to my post where I mentioned the card directly.
Are you seriously bringing up a post in a thread over Michael Brown? That was 8 years ago! Do you have a Belichick database set up for race and gender rage? That Toni couldn't recall it isn't too hard to believe. She isn't obsessed with women she disagrees with.
 
What is the source of this supposed bar registration card?
It was originally dug up by WaPo I believe. Aggressive paywall, I know. Snopes had an article about it too, when it broke.
Did Sen. Elizabeth Warren Describe Her Race as ‘American Indian’ on Her 1986 Texas Bar Card?

I'm asking because I never saw it before
You never saw it before? Are you sure? You participated in threads in which it was brought up.
Warren's Native American heritage gaffe
In this post of the Elizabeth Warren claims Michael Brown was "murdered" thread you reply to my post where I mentioned the card directly.
Are you seriously bringing up a post in a thread over Michael Brown? That was 8 years ago! Do you have a Belichick database set up for race and gender rage? That Toni couldn't recall it isn't too hard to believe. She isn't obsessed with women she disagrees with.
And with a hurricane bearing down on him, too! Seriously, Derec, stay safe. Hope the bad stuff misses you.
 
What is the source of this supposed bar registration card?
It was originally dug up by WaPo I believe. Aggressive paywall, I know. Snopes had an article about it too, when it broke.
Did Sen. Elizabeth Warren Describe Her Race as ‘American Indian’ on Her 1986 Texas Bar Card?

I'm asking because I never saw it before
You never saw it before? Are you sure? You participated in threads in which it was brought up.
Warren's Native American heritage gaffe
In this post of the Elizabeth Warren claims Michael Brown was "murdered" thread you reply to my post where I mentioned the card directly.
Are you seriously bringing up a post in a thread over Michael Brown? That was 8 years ago! Do you have a Belichick database set up for race and gender rage? That Toni couldn't recall it isn't too hard to believe. She isn't obsessed with women she disagrees with.
I did recollect that there had been discussion(s) but I honestly did not remember the image of the TX bar card being filled in with Native American--and thanks for the reminder that that card was filled out AFTER she was admitted to the bar, not as part of any application she made.
 
What is the source of this supposed bar registration card?
It was originally dug up by WaPo I believe. Aggressive paywall, I know. Snopes had an article about it too, when it broke.
Did Sen. Elizabeth Warren Describe Her Race as ‘American Indian’ on Her 1986 Texas Bar Card?

I'm asking because I never saw it before
You never saw it before? Are you sure? You participated in threads in which it was brought up.
Warren's Native American heritage gaffe
In this post of the Elizabeth Warren claims Michael Brown was "murdered" thread you reply to my post where I mentioned the card directly.
Are you seriously bringing up a post in a thread over Michael Brown? That was 8 years ago! Do you have a Belichick database set up for race and gender rage? That Toni couldn't recall it isn't too hard to believe. She isn't obsessed with women she disagrees with.
I did recollect that there had been discussion(s) but I honestly did not remember the image of the TX bar card being filled in with Native American--and thanks for the reminder that that card was filled out AFTER she was admitted to the bar, not as part of any application she made.

The date she was admitted is on the card itself, so it's easy to see that she got the registration card after she was admitted. Since it was for statistical purposes only, according to the registration card itself, she may have thought it was just a way to bump up the statistics for Native Americans. After all, she had that family legend.

I like to tell people that I'm descended from Betsy Ross and Aaron Burr, since we have that in our family legend, but who knows? That side of the family was a bunch of snobs. They also claim to be descended from Julia Dent Grant's family (Grant's wife), but her family were pro-slavery, so I don't tend to brag about that. Ultimately, though, we're all descended from cannibals. So, there's that. Luckily, they left that out of the family "bible", as they call it.
 
What is the source of this supposed bar registration card?
It was originally dug up by WaPo I believe. Aggressive paywall, I know. Snopes had an article about it too, when it broke.
Did Sen. Elizabeth Warren Describe Her Race as ‘American Indian’ on Her 1986 Texas Bar Card?

I'm asking because I never saw it before
You never saw it before? Are you sure? You participated in threads in which it was brought up.
Warren's Native American heritage gaffe
In this post of the Elizabeth Warren claims Michael Brown was "murdered" thread you reply to my post where I mentioned the card directly.
Are you seriously bringing up a post in a thread over Michael Brown? That was 8 years ago! Do you have a Belichick database set up for race and gender rage? That Toni couldn't recall it isn't too hard to believe. She isn't obsessed with women she disagrees with.
I did recollect that there had been discussion(s) but I honestly did not remember the image of the TX bar card being filled in with Native American--and thanks for the reminder that that card was filled out AFTER she was admitted to the bar, not as part of any application she made.

The date she was admitted is on the card itself, so it's easy to see that she got the registration card after she was admitted. Since it was for statistical purposes only, according to the registration card itself, she may have thought it was just a way to bump up the statistics for Native Americans. After all, she had that family legend.

I like to tell people that I'm descended from Betsy Ross and Aaron Burr, since we have that in our family legend, but who knows? That side of the family was a bunch of snobs. They also claim to be descended from Julia Dent Grant's family (Grant's wife), but her family were pro-slavery, so I don't tend to brag about that. Ultimately, though, we're all descended from cannibals. So, there's that. Luckily, they left that out of the family "bible", as they call it.
Or she was asked to do so. Who knows? According to my family kegend, I am related to Ulysses S.Grant. No idea how. One of my kids did the 23 abd Me and shared his results. No surprises there—which actually surprised me. We seem to be from where we were told….
 
I really don't care that Warren claimed to be of Native American heritage, although I do agree it was wrong of her to make that claim. I don't think she would be a good president.
Hear hear.

Anyway....the latest poll has Warnock back in the lead. I sure hope that's right.
It does. RCP average is very close - 0.7% for Warnock. Luckily for him, a metapoll like that should have a tighter MOE than individual polls.
 
I don't have the time or patience to necromance through old threads. I sincerely admire your memory and ability to locate these threads.
I mean, it is not that difficult with the search function. Of course, you are right on memory - I remembered that we discussed the bar card during the primaries, but of course I did not remember which thread(s) specifically.
I haven't the patience.
It's not like I had to slog my way through all the old threads. With the search function, it does not take very long. :)

In any case, upthread here it was demonstrated that the NA notation was made AFTER she was admitted to the bar.
A bar registration card is issued after bar admittance, correct. I did not claim otherwise. My claim was that she clearly used her alleged "American Indian" identity in her professional life, and not just as an interesting piece of family lore.

I'm really not certain where you get the idea that race determines whether or not one is admitted to the bar in any state. It does not.
I did not claim it does. But claiming "American Indian" as your race in professional settings can help you get hired because of "affirmative action" policies.

Like many people I know, Warren was perhaps over-proud of the family legend of NA ancestry. It may or may not be factual but it is apparent that she believed it to be true. It is easy if you look white and are raised white and the ancestry is far enough in history to be proud of being part Indian.
You cannot claim "family legend" as an excuse when you list "American Indian" as your race in a professional setting, such as a bar registration.

It's a lot harder to live as a Native American openly.
Yeah. Very hard cashing those casino checks or not having to pay certain taxes and fees the rest of have to.

Poor Bernie! Being forced against his will to run to be the nominee of a party he only belongs to when he wants to run for POTUS.
Bernie only ran after EW decided not to. That was my point.
With Elizabeth Warren saying no to 2016, Bernie Sanders eyes populist mantle
 
The Native American angle certainly is much more an asterisk in her career. When she ran for Senate, she wasn't exactly selling a Squanto theme to her identity.
But now she does want to give Indians veto powers over any large-scale infrastructure development.

Also, is she running for office in Georgia now?
Fortunately, she does not.
 
Are you seriously bringing up a post in a thread over Michael Brown? That was 8 years ago!
The thread is from 2019 though, not 2014. It was about EW (and then also Kamala) libelously tweeting that Michael Brown was "murdered".
In any case, during the course of that thread, EW's claims of being an Indian, including her bar registration card, were brought up, and Toni commented on it. So it is not true that she never saw it before. I do not think she was lying, she most likely just forgot.

Do you have a Belichick database set up for race and gender rage?
Huh? No, but this forum has a search function.

That Toni couldn't recall it isn't too hard to believe. She isn't obsessed with women she disagrees with.
She is a big EW fan. And this was mere 3 years ago, not 8.
 
And with a hurricane bearing down on him, too! Seriously, Derec, stay safe. Hope the bad stuff misses you.
Hurricane Ian made a wide berth around Atlanta. We did not even get any rain. Not even a drop.
 
Which proves nothing. Dark money doesn't show up in those reports and it's an increasing part of politics. The campaign laws require the campaign to disclose it's spending, they can't impose restrictions on those who simply say their own thing even if said speech benefits one candidate over the other.
Zipr's unsubstantiated claim was about campaign spending though. His claim was that the Hillary campaign was too broke (after subsidizing DNC for some reason) to campaign in PA or WI. And that anybody who says that Hillary's campaign made strategic mistakes is just a dirty, no-good "misogynist".
 
It's more like ignorance imo. The woman I mentioned hated Trump but she had all kinds of fears about voting.
What kind of fears?
I think they have a week, while we have 3 full weeks of early voting, plus we don't need a reason to request an absentee ballot, like many states do.
And yet Georgia is getting boycotted by the likes of MLB over our voting laws just because outside groups are not able to distribute food and drink. :rolleyesa:
 
The card was first reported by the Washington Post, I believe. It is still true that she did not claim to be of American Indian heritage for any personal gain, however. This card was issued to her AFTER she was accepted to the bar. Note the very tiny print above the "Race" line [about statistical purposes]
My point is merely that her use of race as "American Indian" shows that she was using her supposed Amerind identity in a professional setting, and did not treat it merely as a piece of family lore.
 
No, I do NOT make everything about gender. YOU and many men find Sanders more appealing.
You claim people who prefer Bernie over EW do that because Bernie is a man. But you reject that you might prefer EW because she is a woman. Can you not countenance that like you, people have other reasons to prefer one over the other? Or does everybody disagreeing with you have bad motives automatically?

Btw, I do not find Bernie's policies any more appealing than EW's. But on a personal level he is much more likable.

I find him exactly the opposite. I think he's a bombastic old man who wags his finger as he scolds and lectures, shouts and sprays spittle whenever he talks.
Bombastic is a good way to describe him! Lecturing though I would ascribe more to EW. And whenever she lectures or scolds she sounds like she is talking to children, not adults.

The finger wagging scolding and shouting are the epitome of school marm, at least if it's a woman who does it. If it's a man, he's a saint and wise and funny.
Shouting is not the epitome of a schoolmarm. Scolding is, which is what EW does when she is not lecturing.
The moniker schoolmarm is gendered, but not the trope. Strict, scolding male teachers are also a thing, both in reality and in fiction. But Bernie does not really fit that mold.

I don't see Warren as better than Sanders because she's a woman and he's a man. I think that many people like Sanders and enjoy or excuse his behavior (shouting, finger wagging, scolding, spittle) because he's a man: a crotchety old grandpa. And I think that many of those same people who see Warren as too much of a wonk do so because she's female. In 2016, Grandpas were cool and grandmas were not, at least in some circles.
That is the thing. You say you prefer EW for reasons other than her gender, and I take you at your word. Can you not extend the same to those who prefer Bernie over EW? Why assume the like for Bernie is "because he's a man" and dislike EW "because she's female".

Nice snake you included. I love it when Sanders <Removed> include that whenever they talk about Warren.
Nice personal insult! (I read it before it was removed)
I included the snake because snake emojis became an online phenomenon (including #WarrenIsASnake hashtag) after the episode where EW attacked Bernie during a debate over her claim that he allegedly told her that a woman could not win.
It was another episode from the tumultuous 2020 primary season that ended with such a disappointingly conventional nominee.

Shows their true colors. Apparently Sanders did try to talk her into dropping out, saying that a woman couldn't win.
That was her claim. He denied it. In the end, ...
1906a1bb-4006-4dde-9468-4618cb48431f_text.gif



What an ugly thing to write.
They certainly disregard it whenever it is convenient to them and maintaining their special treatment.
Pairs nicely with your allusion to the belief that NA people crossed the Siberian peninsula
Siberian peninsula? You mean the Bering land bridge?
And I mean, they did cross it. Even if some will insist they were created de novo in North America, contrary to all scientific evidence.

and so aren't really 'American'
When did I say that?

and have no more claim to the Americas than the Europeans who came after. It's always interesting when an atheist embraces manifest destiny so fiercely.
I do not think Amerinds should have any more or less rights than any other US citizen. I also think that tribal sovereignty is incompatible with US citizenship as it creates two classes of citizens.

I'm fairly certain that the proportion of Native Americans who do not believe in DNA (whatever you mean by that statement) is roughly the same as the proportion of white people or black people or Hispanic people who don't believe in DNA.
I do not have numbers on that, but it would be an interesting thing to find out.
 
The card was first reported by the Washington Post, I believe. It is still true that she did not claim to be of American Indian heritage for any personal gain, however. This card was issued to her AFTER she was accepted to the bar. Note the very tiny print above the "Race" line [about statistical purposes]
My point is merely that her use of race as "American Indian" shows that she was using her supposed Amerind identity in a professional setting, and did not treat it merely as a piece of family lore.

Originally, you said she used that ancestry for personal gain. Now you are shifting the goalpost to "professional setting". Just how did her putting "American Indian" in a slot that called for "race" benefit her in any way at all? She had nothing to gain from it. Not a scholarship. Not entrance to the bar or a university. Not campaigning for public office. Nothing. She came from Oklahoma, which has the highest percentage of Native American ancestry of any state in the US. Lots of families there boast of Indian ancestry. Show us how she ever used that claim for any personal gain at all, or let it go.
 
Short reply because I'm tired and don't have time to separate out all of the various points:

I like Elizabeth Warren partly because to me, she's relatable. She grew up in modest circumstances, nearly had her career derailed because she became a mother but most of all because she's very open about how her POV has changed because of the work she did. I respect people who grow with experience and who can change their minds as they gain more experiences and see more of the world. She is an extremely hard worker, and works hard at her job, which she seems to see as serving the American people, and the people of her district.

Bernie Sanders has made a point (or his bros have) of having always held the positions he holds now. He doesn't talk about any way that his life experiences or those of other people have informed his opinions or positions or views with respect to policy. And I've always thought that people who shouted were less sincere and less effective. To me, it shows a bullying tendency and is not a characteristic I like in any kind of leader. In fact, to me, it's disqualifying. Sanders and Trump are two sides of the same coin in that respect, both full of ego and unable or unwilling to actually listen. More than that, Sanders has not been particularly effective in his role as Senator. To the extent that he is useful, it is as a gadfly, trying to push his party (as if he had a party) closer to his position. But he's too stubborn to actually join a party and lacks the charisma to form his own. He'd be more effective if he did either and if he could do either, he'd be a more effective person. I don't see him as a leader and certainly not presidential. He seems unwilling and unable to reach compromise, to bring sides together, to forge any sort of plan that multiple sides can support even a little. He's all bombast and much less substance than his acolytes assign to him. I would think the same if a female candidate displayed the same personality traits and the same...career trajectory, if that happened. I don't think it would. No woman who acted like Bernie would be elected to anything at all. Ever.

Yes, Warren being a woman is a bonus for me, given that to date, no woman has been elected as POTUS. In fact, to date, only one non-white man has ever been elected POTUS.

For the record, I had serious concerns about the age of Warren and Sanders (and Biden and Trump) with respect to serving as POTUS.
 
No, I do NOT make everything about gender. YOU and many men find Sanders more appealing.
You claim people who prefer Bernie over EW do that because Bernie is a man. But you reject that you might prefer EW because she is a woman. Can you not countenance that like you, people have other reasons to prefer one over the other? Or does everybody disagreeing with you have bad motives automatically?

Btw, I do not find Bernie's policies any more appealing than EW's. But on a personal level he is much more likable.


I find this true among men I know and I believe that it is precisely because Bernie is a crabby old man. A woman who shouted, spittle flying and wagged her finger at people would be called all sorts of ugly names. I don't mean this as a slam against you or any other man but my observation is that men can get away with being angry, cranky, shouting, etc. and are not disliked for it. Women cannot. I think that in our society, women walk a very narrow line between being seen as a pushover or too pushy, forceful and bitchy, determined and strident. This is not a line that men, or at least white men must walk.

Bombastic is a good way to describe him! Lecturing though I would ascribe more to EW. And whenever she lectures or scolds she sounds like she is talking to children, not adults.

I don't see why 'bombastic' isn't disqualifying and is even praised when it is a cranky old man. Bombastic is defined as "
high-sounding but with little meaning; inflated." Synonyms include blustering, pompous, blathering and ranting. A woman would be pilloried for exhibiting such behavior. In fact, Warren is pilloried for a much, much milder form of that behavior. Bernie seemed to be talking down to people in a much more insulting way than Warren for all of her schoolmarmish ways.

For me, it is almost universally true that anyone who is shouting and pointing their fingers is less believable, less likeable, less competent. Lewis Black being an exception but then, he's not a politician.

Nice snake you included. I love it when Sanders <Removed> include that whenever they talk about Warren.
Nice personal insult! (I read it before it was removed)
I included the snake because snake emojis became an online phenomenon (including #WarrenIsASnake hashtag) after the episode where EW attacked Bernie during a debate over her claim that he allegedly told her that a woman could not win.
It was another episode from the tumultuous 2020 primary season that ended with such a disappointingly conventional nominee.

Actually, I wasn't aware that the term I used was considered an insult. Apologies to you and to the mods for having to delete it.

Funny that referring to Warren as a snake is not considered an insult and that among a certain set, Bernie is believed over Warren. Actually, the fact that when two different narratives emerged, it both is and is not shocking that only the female candidate is insulted with a derogatory little icon.

I found Warren to be believable when she said that Bernie told her a woman couldn't win. After all, there is plenty of history to demonstrate that is correct: women cannot win.
 
The card was first reported by the Washington Post, I believe. It is still true that she did not claim to be of American Indian heritage for any personal gain, however. This card was issued to her AFTER she was accepted to the bar. Note the very tiny print above the "Race" line [about statistical purposes]
My point is merely that her use of race as "American Indian" shows that she was using her supposed Amerind identity in a professional setting, and did not treat it merely as a piece of family lore.

Originally, you said she used that ancestry for personal gain. Now you are shifting the goalpost to "professional setting". Just how did her putting "American Indian" in a slot that called for "race" benefit her in any way at all? She had nothing to gain from it. Not a scholarship. Not entrance to the bar or a university. Not campaigning for public office. Nothing. She came from Oklahoma, which has the highest percentage of Native American ancestry of any state in the US. Lots of families there boast of Indian ancestry. Show us how she ever used that claim for any personal gain at all, or let it go.
Also, the one drop rule.
 
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