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Is Trump a Russian Asset?

Considering the fact that we vastly outnumber them—and it would be good for our species—I think another excessively bloody civil war would be just what this world needs. Kill all the deplorables and immeasurably improve the gene pool.

Hypothetically “in a locker-room” speaking of course.

Regardless of how the civil war turns out, America's economy will be crippled, which would definitely remove America as a world power, thus expanding the relative power of Russia and China, so it would be easy to convince Trump voters that a civil war would be a good idea. You know how quickly they would jump at the chance to make Russia and China more powerful.
 
Considering the fact that we vastly outnumber them—and it would be good for our species—I think another excessively bloody civil war would be just what this world needs. Kill all the deplorables and immeasurably improve the gene pool.

Hypothetically “in a locker-room” speaking of course.
Heck, just barricade ourselves for a while and then they'll start killing each other. These fools have no honor, no patriotism, and little intelligence.
 
People focus on the hooker pee-pee tape because it's more salacious, but even if it exists the openly available evidence of Trump's financial ties to Russia is much, much more troubling, and it's obvious that Russian money has been saving him from disaster after disaster for decades now. Russia is so far up his ass that he's little more than a hand puppet.

This.

One way or another, Russian mobsters want their payback and will get it.
 
People focus on the hooker pee-pee tape because it's more salacious, but even if it exists the openly available evidence of Trump's financial ties to Russia is much, much more troubling, and it's obvious that Russian money has been saving him from disaster after disaster for decades now. Russia is so far up his ass that he's little more than a hand puppet.

This.

One way or another, Russian mobsters want their payback and will get it.

You can always hope they’ll lose faith in his ability to pay them back, and will take steps to limit their own exposure, f’yanowatimean. God knows his republitard enablers aren’t gonna do anything about it.
 
Considering the fact that we vastly outnumber them—and it would be good for our species—I think another excessively bloody civil war would be just what this world needs. Kill all the deplorables and immeasurably improve the gene pool.

Hypothetically “in a locker-room” speaking of course.

Regardless of how the civil war turns out, America's economy will be crippled, which would definitely remove America as a world power

Trump has already accomplished that and China has already joined forces with Russia. What would happen is we would regain our standing as a world power by overthrowing a fascist movement before it could truly destroy our standing. If Trump were to somehow "win" another term, that would be our death knell.
 
I think the OP raises an interesting question - is a tool necessarily an asset?

Yes. Even if you never use the tool, the fact that you have it makes it an asset. You can claim it on your taxes, or as part of the sale of the business.




The question is whether or not it's a willing asset, or even aware that it's a tool.

Planting the locator beacon on the Millenium Falcon made it a tool for finding the Rebel Base, even if they didn't know it was on board..

Exactly. I don't think His Flatulence is actually a Manchurian president. I do think he's very easily manipulated, though, and within reason will do what Putin wants.
 
Exactly. I don't think His Flatulence is actually a Manchurian president. I do think he's very easily manipulated, though, and within reason will do what Putin wants.
Or, outside of reason, if the last person he talks to says it's reasonable.

"Putin wants Alaska."
"Well, we did pump all the oil out of it already, Mr. President."
"We did? Okay, that's reasonable, I guess..."
 
Trump is easily manipulated. He's easily influenced. He's easily read. He's stupid, and worse yet, he thinks he's smarter than most people. Even given all of those attributes, I try to imagine what would cause Trump to behave so oddly with regards to Russia. Personally, I think he has to be in deep somehow. He's probably got some very illegal activity going on that's been happening for some time, or the salacious stuff is SO bad, it makes prostitutes pissing on you seem tame.

What do we KNOW about Trump? We know virtually everything he touches ends up having some type of illegal activity associated with it. He's been fighting the law in New York since the 70's over and again. Or, just look at the charity situation with Trump. We know that he had a mysterious super cash infusion some time ago. We know his businesses almost inevitably end up run into the ground eventually, yet his businesses continue to exist. We know he cannot help but go after women and has been caught several times trying to cover it up.

I think he's been involved in money laundering for the Russians for a long, long time, in addition to his own shady business practices, and I believe the Russians have been keeping records on this for decades. I also think they may well have salacious kompromat on him, as even without trying people here in this country already have as much. Ask strippers and playmates. Finally, we also have to remember that the GOP was hacked as well, yet we've never heard anything beyond that. I don't think the entire GOP is in on this, I think that ridiculous. I think the far right, Nunes, Dowdy, Gomert, etc. are more than enough a threat to the conservatives in their own right, just by virtue of being uncompromising authoritarian ideologues. They will cheer "America!" as they happily follow any leader off a cliff. But, I find it difficult to believe that there wasn't some kind of useful information taken by the Russians from conservative servers and that it will be used sooner or later to their advantage.

Look, Trump changes his mind constantly. Usually, in the direction of the last person he's spoken with. He has wavered on every policy position except on his position with regards to Russia. Watching him in Helsinki yesterday I believe finally put it in contrast for many people as to just how compromised this man is to Putin. Putin, of course, knows all this. If you watch Putin, the man doesn't even bother to reciprocate. Trump deflects for him, blames the Dems, Hillary, some Pakistani guy, the FBI, his other intelligence services, the Mueller investigation, and so on. He literally interrupts Putin so he doesn't have to answer questions. Putin also says he basically agrees with all this, but doesn't bother defending Trump, doesn't offer him any kind of support, and critically, in my mind, when asked later if he has any kompromat on Trump, he makes no denials.

Trump is in really deep, or his coverup is magnitudes worse than the actual crime. Either way he's completely unfit to lead.
 
They've also financed most if not all of his business for quite awhile now. They control a hell of a lot of his debts.
So there must be some quid pro quo somewhere. "We will continue to bail you out, and we will even help you get elected, but you must reorient US foreign policy in our favor."
 
They've also financed most if not all of his business for quite awhile now. They control a hell of a lot of his debts.
So there must be some quid pro quo somewhere. "We will continue to bail you out, and we will even help you get elected, but you must reorient US foreign policy in our favor."

I doubt it--I don't think he would react well to being controlled like that. Rather, I think he's being manipulated. He sees Putin and associates as friends and is doing what they want because they do what he wants. The effect is the same but I don't think he realizes what's going on.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/us/politics/trump-russia-indictment.html?recp=4

According to the NYT, Butina tried to establish a "back channel" for a meeting between Putin and Trump. If the NYT is correct, why would Russia authorize an operation to get a back channel to someone who is already one of their agents?


This is just supposition on my part, but we've seen several attempts to create a backchannel to Russia from the Trump administration. We see the Butina/NRA situation. We have the Kushner trying to convince the Russians to use one of their facilities to do so, and we have Erik Prince's Seychelles meeting. One could also easily argue that Flynn was a backchannel himself. We also, of course, have Manafort. When speaking of a "backchannel" in covert operations, it's often actually comprised of many such "avenues" and this is done, at least often, on purpose. If one channel becomes compromised, one has alternate communication abilities. Also, the aim of any covert operation is to secure informants, and often it's advantageous to have multiple informants available, as each will have access to different types of information. There's a balance there too, too many informants increases the risk of the entire operation going belly up.

What we appear to be seeing is a multi-pronged attack on the GOP, preying on their weaknesses. Butina, remember, not only worked through the NRA, but the National Prayer Breakfast. Securing informants, backchannels and trust is much easier if you convince your target that you are supporting their ideology. You have something in common. In this case, and this is another reason I think we see Trump humper support for Russian activities, Russian and GOP attitudes are similar. Putin uses the Orthodox church in Russia to support him, and he, in turn, supports their aims as well, mostly in the realm of Christian Dominionism (as long as it's not a threat to Putin's state) and hatred of homosexuals. Christian dominionists are authoritarian bigots, and so their aims are naturally aligned. Now, Russia isn't doing this because of these things they have in common, they are doing it to establish some degree of control over the Republican party in order to control US behavior in foreign policy. So far, this is paying off pretty well for them, although they haven't completed some of their main objectives, like elimination the Magnisky act. Even if they have de facto control the White House to a degree, they do not control Congress (yet) who has still voted in sanctions against Russia and so on. Now, who is most influential on the GOP Congress? Who do they fear and respect? the NRA. Think about it. Why would Russians give two purple monkey shits about the American 2nd Amendment?

Now, what complicates this whole thing, and also goes to show you how successful Russia has really been playing the GOP, is that our intelligence services warned Trump, Congress and virtually the entire GOP about Russian efforts to infiltrate them long before the election. Instead of heeding the warning, they have now turned against our intelligence services, disrespecting them, subjecting them to hearings, calling them corrupt and inept, and trying to reduce their influence and control their behavior and derail their investigations. This has been done mostly through the GOP house, which also is supposed to have oversight of our intelligence services, that is their function, and they are abusing this power to defend Trump. So, intelligence services like the FBI, CIA, Secret Service and NSA are all walking a very careful tightrope right now, trying to do their job while Congress abuses those oversight powers to the detriment of the nation. I'm usually quite skeptical of our intelligence services, since they themselves often abuse their power, but I have to say I'm rooting for them on this one, it's my hope that they won't continue to so easily roll over for the House GOP.
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/us/politics/trump-russia-indictment.html?recp=4

According to the NYT, Butina tried to establish a "back channel" for a meeting between Putin and Trump. If the NYT is correct, why would Russia authorize an operation to get a back channel to someone who is already one of their agents?

Angency comes in degrees. How much of an agent was he when Butina was fucking NRA members? Or was that after the RUSSIAN peepee hookers?

The OP article suggests Trump may have been an agent since 1987. Why would Russia need complicated back channels to contact one of its own agents?
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/us/politics/trump-russia-indictment.html?recp=4

According to the NYT, Butina tried to establish a "back channel" for a meeting between Putin and Trump. If the NYT is correct, why would Russia authorize an operation to get a back channel to someone who is already one of their agents?


This is just supposition on my part, but we've seen several attempts to create a backchannel to Russia from the Trump administration. We see the Butina/NRA situation. We have the Kushner trying to convince the Russians to use one of their facilities to do so, and we have Erik Prince's Seychelles meeting. One could also easily argue that Flynn was a backchannel himself. We also, of course, have Manafort. When speaking of a "backchannel" in covert operations, it's often actually comprised of many such "avenues" and this is done, at least often, on purpose. If one channel becomes compromised, one has alternate communication abilities. Also, the aim of any covert operation is to secure informants, and often it's advantageous to have multiple informants available, as each will have access to different types of information. There's a balance there too, too many informants increases the risk of the entire operation going belly up.

What we appear to be seeing is a multi-pronged attack on the GOP, preying on their weaknesses. Butina, remember, not only worked through the NRA, but the National Prayer Breakfast. Securing informants, backchannels and trust is much easier if you convince your target that you are supporting their ideology. You have something in common. In this case, and this is another reason I think we see Trump humper support for Russian activities, Russian and GOP attitudes are similar. Putin uses the Orthodox church in Russia to support him, and he, in turn, supports their aims as well, mostly in the realm of Christian Dominionism (as long as it's not a threat to Putin's state) and hatred of homosexuals. Christian dominionists are authoritarian bigots, and so their aims are naturally aligned. Now, Russia isn't doing this because of these things they have in common, they are doing it to establish some degree of control over the Republican party in order to control US behavior in foreign policy. So far, this is paying off pretty well for them, although they haven't completed some of their main objectives, like elimination the Magnisky act. Even if they have de facto control the White House to a degree, they do not control Congress (yet) who has still voted in sanctions against Russia and so on. Now, who is most influential on the GOP Congress? Who do they fear and respect? the NRA. Think about it. Why would Russians give two purple monkey shits about the American 2nd Amendment?

Now, what complicates this whole thing, and also goes to show you how successful Russia has really been playing the GOP, is that our intelligence services warned Trump, Congress and virtually the entire GOP about Russian efforts to infiltrate them long before the election. Instead of heeding the warning, they have now turned against our intelligence services, disrespecting them, subjecting them to hearings, calling them corrupt and inept, and trying to reduce their influence and control their behavior and derail their investigations. This has been done mostly through the GOP house, which also is supposed to have oversight of our intelligence services, that is their function, and they are abusing this power to defend Trump. So, intelligence services like the FBI, CIA, Secret Service and NSA are all walking a very careful tightrope right now, trying to do their job while Congress abuses those oversight powers to the detriment of the nation. I'm usually quite skeptical of our intelligence services, since they themselves often abuse their power, but I have to say I'm rooting for them on this one, it's my hope that they won't continue to so easily roll over for the House GOP.

What I'm saying is: if Trump is a Russian agent, why would they have to go to such great lengths to contact their own agent?
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/us/politics/trump-russia-indictment.html?recp=4

According to the NYT, Butina tried to establish a "back channel" for a meeting between Putin and Trump. If the NYT is correct, why would Russia authorize an operation to get a back channel to someone who is already one of their agents?

Angency comes in degrees. How much of an agent was he when Butina was fucking NRA members? Or was that after the RUSSIAN peepee hookers?

The OP article suggests Trump may have been an agent since 1987.

What I wrote to you is that agency (being an "agent") comes in degrees. So how much of an agent was he really in 1987? how much in 1990? how much in 2000? how much in 2015? how much in 2016?

Angra said:
Why would Russia need complicated back channels to contact one of its own agents?

Don't governments normally have complicated back channels to communicate with agents?
 
If he was an agent say, since 1987, he is now surrounded by the Secret Service, Intelligence personnel, and he lives in the White House. He's gone from being a businessman with almost no oversight to constantly being scrutinized. I fail to see how they would NOT have to reestablish lines of communication. He can't exactly pick up a phone or walk out the back door of the White House to get in touch.

ETA: Which is interesting because we are always seeing reports of him trying to work around established lines of communication, such as trying to use his own phone, etc.
 
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