Israel Loses In Israeli Election

[Tigers!]

I have often thought that Israel should politely asked Hamas and the UN what it allowed to do before they decided try to get the hostages back.
Would that have made you happier?

Sorry, I live in the real world. I do like the fantasy one that you proposed, however. The one where Israel actually respects International Law and doesn't knowingly and willingly commit war crimes on a daily basis. That sounds like a nice world.

I like your fantasy world where Hamas can slaughter 1200 people, take > 200 hostages and all you can do is mumble 'Poor show chaps'

It really is baffling how you are against Putin committing atrocities in Ukraine, but unconditionally support Netanyahu doing the exact same thing. The mental gymnastics you must perform are truly astonishing.

I have looking back and cannot find the spot where I unconditionally endorsed all that Israel has done. Perhaps you could find it for me rather than throw out unfounded mumblings?
Israel has been far too profilgate with its bombs and has not taken anywhere near enough care with its targeting.

 

[bilby]

like your fantasy world where Hamas can slaughter 1200 people, take > 200 hostages and all you can do is mumble 'Poor show chaps'

You're right. The ONLY responses available were either a mild verbal rebuke, or genocide. No other options existed.

 

[Tigers!]

like your fantasy world where Hamas can slaughter 1200 people, take > 200 hostages and all you can do is mumble 'Poor show chaps'

You're right. The ONLY responses available were either a mild verbal rebuke, or genocide. No other options existed.

If you could please list those other options/responses that would be good.
And in particular list the options of which you would approve.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I have often thought that Israel should politely asked Hamas and the UN what it allowed to do before they decided try to get the hostages back.
Would that have made you happier?

Sorry, I live in the real world. I do like the fantasy one that you proposed, however. The one where Israel actually respects International Law and doesn't knowingly and willingly commit war crimes on a daily basis. That sounds like a nice world.

I like your fantasy world where Hamas can slaughter 1200 people, take > 200 hostages and all you can do is mumble 'Poor show chaps'

It really is baffling how you are against Putin committing atrocities in Ukraine, but unconditionally support Netanyahu doing the exact same thing. The mental gymnastics you must perform are truly astonishing.

I have looking back and cannot find the spot where I unconditionally endorsed all that Israel has done. Perhaps you could find it for me rather than throw out unfounded mumblings?
Israel has been far too profilgate with its bombs and has not taken anywhere near enough care with its targeting.

I like your fantasy world where Hamas can slaughter 1200 people, take > 200 hostages and all you can do is mumble 'Poor show chaps'.

 

[bilby]

like your fantasy world where Hamas can slaughter 1200 people, take > 200 hostages and all you can do is mumble 'Poor show chaps'

You're right. The ONLY responses available were either a mild verbal rebuke, or genocide. No other options existed.

If you could please list those other options/responses that would be good.

There are literally no end to them. Ideally they should have targetted Hamas specifically, and have made a genuine effort to locate and rescue the hostages - any "rescue" mission that destroys the places the hostages are being kept, or that involves shooting hostages who have escaped, is not (in fact) a rescue mission.

But they did both of those things.

What they did was to commit genocide, and to make a flashy display of anger and of power. None of which was helpful to the hostages, and all of which made it easy for Hamas to recruit to cover their losses.

And in particular list the options of which you would approve.

Those that don't break the rules set out in the Geneva Conventions would be acceptable.

 

[Patooka]

like your fantasy world where Hamas can slaughter 1200 people, take > 200 hostages and all you can do is mumble 'Poor show chaps'

You're right. The ONLY responses available were either a mild verbal rebuke, or genocide. No other options existed.

If you could please list those other options/responses that would be good.

There are literally no end to them. Ideally they should have targetted Hamas specifically, and have made a genuine effort to locate and rescue the hostages - any "rescue" mission that destroys the places the hostages are being kept, or that involves shooting hostages who have escaped, is not (in fact) a rescue mission.

But they did both of those things.

What they did was to commit genocide, and to make a flashy display of anger and of power. None of which was helpful to the hostages, and all of which made ot easy for Hamas to recruit to cover their losses.

And in particular list the options of which you would approve.

Those that don't break the rules set out in the Geneva Conventions would be acceptable.

It really shouldn't be this difficult to explain.

 

[laughing dog]

Israel has been far too profilgate with its bombs and has not taken anywhere near enough care with its targeting.

You recognize the obvious, but demand others to come up with specific plans?

 

[Shadowy Man]

And if some rando on the internet can’t come up with a good plan why would we expect the Israeli government and its military apparatus to be able to.

 

[Tigers!]

And in particular list the options of which you would approve.

Those that don't break the rules set out in the Geneva Conventions would be acceptable.

If I recall correctly the Geneva Convention forbades the taking of hostages. So how would/should Hamas been punished for and prevented from taking hostages in the first place?
You are very keen for Israel to follow the Geneva Convention, as they should. Where is the concern for Hamas to follow the Geneva Convention? If Hamas does not follow the Convention what will be done about it?

 

[Elixir]

Where is the concern for Hamas to follow the Geneva Convention?

I sure don’t know. Isn’t that a bit like “concern” that Russia doesn’t have fair elections, ‘cept smaller? I mesn yeah it’s concerning but there is not any obvious thing to be done about it.

If Hamas does not follow the Convention what will be done about it?

Well, Bibi’s answer is kill them. And I don’t think breaking Geneva Convention protocols is even a precondition for that to be his “solution”. He needs to have a mortal threat at the door or his minions will eat him, so he will NEVER cause Hamas to go away.
So, I think that what will happen, is that Bibi will fire every bullet the US gives him to try to kill a bunch of Hamas in the most headline-grabbing manner possible, in his never ending effort to preserve his own life and freedom. That, regardless of whether or not they “follow the convention”.

 

[bilby]

And in particular list the options of which you would approve.

Those that don't break the rules set out in the Geneva Conventions would be acceptable.

If I recall correctly the Geneva Convention forbades the taking of hostages. So how would/should Hamas been punished for and prevented from taking hostages in the first place?

Well ideally, the leaders responsible would be captured/arrested, and tried at The Hague.

You are very keen for Israel to follow the Geneva Convention, as they should.

Indeed.

Where is the concern for Hamas to follow the Geneva Convention?

In EXACTLY the same place.

If Hamas does not follow the Convention what will be done about it?

The perpetrators will be tried and punished.

What absolutey must NOT happen, if we care about trying to make the world a better place, is for Israel to say "They don't play by the rules, so we won't either".

Another person's crime - even if it is a crime they got away with scot free - is never a justification for you to commit that crime.

 

[spikepipsqueak]

Israel COULD have made a more targeted response, with trained army personnel, found out where the hostages were, with targeted intelligence, rescued them and brought the leaders to justice. Or relied on UN troops for similar actions.

Instead they destroyed civilian homes and lives and gained nothing of their stated objectives. They did make some territory they covet uninhabitable for its current inhabitants.

 

[crazyfingers]

Israel COULD have made a more targeted response, with trained army personnel, found out where the hostages were, with targeted intelligence, rescued them and brought the leaders to justice. Or relied on UN troops for similar actions.

Instead they destroyed civilian homes and lives and gained nothing of their stated objectives. They did make some territory they covet uninhabitable for its current inhabitants.

I agree. While I'm not a military or national security person, I have to believe that there would be some better solution without committing genocide/ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity.

Something that doesn't include killing 50,000 people and dislocating 2 million people.

Option A: Hamas attacks and kills something like 2000 people and Israel does not retaliate
Option C: Hamas attacks so Israel kills 50,000 people, 75% women and children, and dislocates 90% of the civil population

What was a good option B? I don't know. But I'm no expert. But there has to have been other better options than genocide.

I am still for a 2 state solution. I think that Israel has the right to exist. I also think that the Palestinians have the right to have a state also. But Israel is hell bent against a two state solution.