#IStandWithAhmed (or Inventing While Muslim is a thing?)

[laughing dog]

It wasn't going to explode, but that doesn't mean it didn't look like a bomb or "infrastructure" for one as the police said for a casual viewer. There are degrees of obviousness. In this case, obviousness requires one to look inside the case and first think "Is this a bomb? Should I run to safety?" before figuring out "no, because there aren't explosives in there". That's rather different than a clock that doesn't look even remotely like a bomb so that the idea that it might be one never comes up.

I repeat. If it was obviously not a bomb and if the student did not pretend or make out that it was a bomb, then it could not be a bomb hoax. Which means there was no reason for the subsequent hoopla after that was determined.

 

[Jayjay]

It is suspicious to have a stranger sit next to you or walk up to you where you are standing, open a case and start talking to you about bombs.

Several of the people get jumpy before he says anything about bombs.

 

[barbos]

Basically, Mark Cuban talked to some people in the school (though he does mention it's twice removed so it is basically rumous) that Ahmed brougth it to five classes and the sixth one was the english teacher, and that he didn't engage with the teacher or provide any explanation what the device was.

My guess is, since the kid has never been in trouble before, he got very nervous when the clock got him in trouble. I know, when I was that age and being very shy to boot, being keel-hauled by a bunch of authority figures would have freaked me out.

Personally, I think the engineering teacher screwed up when he told the kid to keep it to himself. He should have confiscated the clock and told the kid to pick it from him at the end of the day. Then, none of this would have happened.

I don't buy it, the kid talks to the media just fine. and you are telling me he got shy talking to a teacher?
Also, explain why did he plug it during english class in the first place? and then suddenly got shy? what he thought was going to happen?

 

[Jayjay]

It wasn't going to explode, but that doesn't mean it didn't look like a bomb or "infrastructure" for one as the police said for a casual viewer. There are degrees of obviousness. In this case, obviousness requires one to look inside the case and first think "Is this a bomb? Should I run to safety?" before figuring out "no, because there aren't explosives in there". That's rather different than a clock that doesn't look even remotely like a bomb so that the idea that it might be one never comes up.

I repeat. If it was obviously not a bomb and if the student did not pretend or make out that it was a bomb, then it could not be a bomb hoax. Which means there was no reason for the subsequent hoopla after that was determined.

If the student gave no explanation beyond "it's a clock" and refused to answer questions why he made it, then there is reason to keep digging. What if it was a hoax intended for someone else? What if this was a part of a home made bomb sans explosives? What if the kid was trying to make a real bomb and for whatever stupid reason was just showing it around? If he doesn't answer any questons, what are the cops supposed to do?

If I have a bucked full of feces, it could be part of a prank, even if my teacher were to confiscate it before I can set it up over the door to the principal's office. Likewise for something to be a hoax bomb it's not necessary for the hoax to be a successful or a particularly good one. Makign one person think that it's a bomb and then going "it's a clock!" qualifies.

 

[laughing dog]

I repeat. If it was obviously not a bomb and if the student did not pretend or make out that it was a bomb, then it could not be a bomb hoax. Which means there was no reason for the subsequent hoopla after that was determined.

If the student gave no explanation beyond "it's a clock" and refused to answer questions why he made it, then there is reason to keep digging. What if it was a hoax intended for someone else? What if this was a part of a home made bomb sans explosives? What if the kid was trying to make a real bomb and for whatever stupid reason was just showing it around? If he doesn't answer any questons, what are the cops supposed to do?

In the USA, no one is required to answer questions from the police. As you even admitted, arresting him was a mistake. Confiscating the material or calling his parents was in order. But it cannot be a hoax without intent. No intent was ever established. And, in fact, it was easily confirmed that it was a science project.

If I have a bucked full of feces, it could be part of a prank, even if my teacher were to confiscate it before I can set it up over the door to the principal's office.

Anything could be part of prank, but students are not routinely hassled by schools or the police just because they might possibly be planning a prank.

 

[Jayjay]

Basically, Mark Cuban talked to some people in the school (though he does mention it's twice removed so it is basically rumous) that Ahmed brougth it to five classes and the sixth one was the english teacher, and that he didn't engage with the teacher or provide any explanation what the device was.

My guess is, since the kid has never been in trouble before, he got very nervous when the clock got him in trouble. I know, when I was that age and being very shy to boot, being keel-hauled by a bunch of authority figures would have freaked me out.

I tend to agree, I think it's better to give the kid the benefit of the doubt. But nevertheless, it shows that just maybe the cops weren't hauling his ass off to juvie just for being black and muslim as the media hype would have us believe.

 

[Jayjay]

If the student gave no explanation beyond "it's a clock" and refused to answer questions why he made it, then there is reason to keep digging. What if it was a hoax intended for someone else? What if this was a part of a home made bomb sans explosives? What if the kid was trying to make a real bomb and for whatever stupid reason was just showing it around? If he doesn't answer any questons, what are the cops supposed to do?

In the USA, no one is required to answer questions from the police. As you even admitted, arresting him was a mistake. Confiscating the material or calling his parents was in order. But it cannot be a hoax without intent. No intent was ever established. And, in fact, it was easily confirmed that it was a science project.

It wasn't a science project. It was totally unsolicited. If he clamped up about it, instead of saying "just ask my parents, I spent whole weekend on this" or someting that should've cleared it up, but why didn't he say so? The cops should have called the parents anyway though and on that I agree with you.

If I have a bucked full of feces, it could be part of a prank, even if my teacher were to confiscate it before I can set it up over the door to the principal's office.

Anything could be part of prank, but students are not routinely hassled by schools or the police just because they might possibly be planning a prank.

And why the hell would someone bring a bucket full of feces to school? Hypothetically speaking of course. It could be part of some bizarre art project, but I seriously doubt anyone would believe that.

 

[barbos]

My guess is, since the kid has never been in trouble before, he got very nervous when the clock got him in trouble. I know, when I was that age and being very shy to boot, being keel-hauled by a bunch of authority figures would have freaked me out.

I tend to agree, I think it's better to give the kid the benefit of the doubt. But nevertheless, it shows that just maybe the cops weren't hauling his ass off to juvie just for being black and muslim as the media hype would have us believe.

And I tend to disagree, for the reason I posted. The truth is, we (and police) still don't have answers to these questions.
I mean police, despite letting him go is not happy with his answers, or rather lack of them.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

If the student gave no explanation beyond "it's a clock" and refused to answer questions why he made it, then there is reason to keep digging. What if it was a hoax intended for someone else? What if this was a part of a home made bomb sans explosives? What if the kid was trying to make a real bomb and for whatever stupid reason was just showing it around? If he doesn't answer any questons, what are the cops supposed to do?

Generally speaking you should have a reasonable suspicion about something.

 

[barbos]

If the student gave no explanation beyond "it's a clock" and refused to answer questions why he made it, then there is reason to keep digging. What if it was a hoax intended for someone else? What if this was a part of a home made bomb sans explosives? What if the kid was trying to make a real bomb and for whatever stupid reason was just showing it around? If he doesn't answer any questons, what are the cops supposed to do?

Generally speaking you should have a reasonable suspicion about something.

And police had (and still have) plenty of that.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

No, they had a teacher who claimed something looked like a bomb. Whether or not it actually looked like a bomb is disputable.

 

[Toni]

Generally speaking you should have a reasonable suspicion about something.

And police had (and still have) plenty of that.

Not unless they have a totally different understanding than most sane people do of the word reasonable.

PS: lots of kids have all sorts of science projects that are not assigned by teachers but are motivated by the students' own curiosity and interest which the school has yet to completely squash.

 

[barbos]

No, they had a teacher who claimed something looked like a bomb. Whether or not it actually looked like a bomb is disputable.

nope, that's not what they have, they have a kid who's behavior has no satisfactory explanation.
As for the clock then police still maintains that it is indisputably looks like a hoax bomb, what is disputable is whether or not there was intent to make a hoax bomb.

 

[barbos]

And police had (and still have) plenty of that.

Not unless they have a totally different understanding than most sane people do of the word reasonable.

PS: lots of kids have all sorts of science projects that are not assigned by teachers but are motivated by the students' own curiosity and interest which the school has yet to completely squash.

That was not a science project, that fact was established.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

No, they had a teacher who claimed something looked like a bomb. Whether or not it actually looked like a bomb is disputable.

nope, that's not what they have, they have a kid who's behavior has no satisfactory explanation.
As for the clock then police still maintains that it is indisputably looks like a hoax bomb, what is disputable is whether or not there was intent to make a hoax bomb.

What evidence do the police have that it indisputably looks like a hoax bomb? Do we only have their word?

 

[barbos]

nope, that's not what they have, they have a kid who's behavior has no satisfactory explanation.
As for the clock then police still maintains that it is indisputably looks like a hoax bomb, what is disputable is whether or not there was intent to make a hoax bomb.

What evidence do the police have that it indisputably looks like a hoax bomb? Do we only have their word?

They have a word of a number of ordinary people, experts and liberal comedians

 

[skepticalbip]

What evidence do the police have that it indisputably looks like a hoax bomb? Do we only have their word?

They have a word of a number of ordinary people, experts and liberal comedians

It certainly looked very much like the Hollywood version of a time bomb that we see on TV and in movies.

Just be sure to cut the right wire.


Personally, I think the Zero Tolerance practice of expelling students for much more asinine reasons is as much or more upsetting. For top tarts, little plastic soldiers, point fingers pretending it is a pistol in a game of cops and robbers, etc.

 

[barbos]

They have a word of a number of ordinary people, experts and liberal comedians

It certainly looked very much like the Hollywood version of a time bomb that we see on TV and in movies.

Just be sure to cut the right wire.

Exactly, and I believe you are ordinary people

 

[barbos]

Personally, I think the Zero Tolerance practice of expelling students for much more asinine reasons is as much or more upsetting. For top tarts, little plastic soldiers, point fingers pretending it is a pistol in a game of cops and robbers, etc.

No arguments from me here.

 

[ZiprHead]

My guess is, since the kid has never been in trouble before, he got very nervous when the clock got him in trouble. I know, when I was that age and being very shy to boot, being keel-hauled by a bunch of authority figures would have freaked me out.

Personally, I think the engineering teacher screwed up when he told the kid to keep it to himself. He should have confiscated the clock and told the kid to pick it from him at the end of the day. Then, none of this would have happened.

I don't buy it, the kid talks to the media just fine. and you are telling me he got shy talking to a teacher?
Also, explain why did he plug it during english class in the first place? and then suddenly got shy? what he thought was going to happen?

I didn't say he got shy. I said he got nervous. Straw man noted.