• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

January 6 Hearings Live

Amy Kremer, the head of the group Women For America First—one of the rally’s principal organizers—told the crowd that Trump “asked us to show up today, and I don’t think he’s going to be disappointed.” She repeated the lie that President Biden “did not win this election!” “We know that there was voter fraud, we absolutely know it,” she went on, “and that’s why we’re here, to stop the steal.” She spoke of the crowd’s role in apocalyptic terms: “This isn’t about stealing an election from Donald Trump, this is about stealing an election from We the People, and we are here to save the republic.” “You guys,” she implored them, “we cannot back down.”The crowd cheered in response.
Click to expand...
Then Mo Brooks spoke.
Brooks told the crowd, just one minute into his speech, “We are great because our ancestors sacrificed their blood, their sweat, their tears, their fortunes, and sometimes their lives.” He continued that the country faced a crisis of historical magnitude, its greatest crisis since World War II, and perhaps even the Civil War.

"We are here today because America is at risk unlike it has been in decades, and perhaps centuries."

He told the crowd that “Socialist Democrats” were attacking their freedoms and had literally stolen an election from them, and now had to be stopped:

"We are not gonna let the socialists rip the heart out of our country. We are not gonna let them continue to corrupt our elections and steal from us our God-given right to control our nation’s destiny."

And he told the crowd, before repeating his theme, that it was time to start “kicking ass”:

"Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass! [Crowd cheers.] Now, our ancestors sacrificed their blood, their sweat, their tears, their fortunes, and sometimes their lives, to give us, their descendants, an America that is the greatest nation in world history. So I have a question for you: Are you willing to do the same? My answer is yes. Louder! Are you willing to do what it takes to fight for America? Louder!! Will you fight for America?!"

Brooks said all those things solely in his personal capacity for his benefit and/or his personal partisan aims.
Click to expand...
Biggest crisis since WWII and the Civil War?

There is an analogy with the Civil War, but not one that Rep. Brooks would like.
 
Rudy Giuliani spoke, claiming that it was "perfectly legal" to block certification of the electoral votes by Congress.
To further foment the crowd, Giuliani confirmed the magnitude of what it would it mean for certification to occur:

"This has been a year in which they have invaded our freedom of speech, our freedom of religion, our freedom to move, our freedom to live. I'l1 be darned if they're going to take away our free and fair vote. And we're going to fight to the very end to make sure that doesn't happen."

Giuliani also falsely claimed, "This was the worst election in American history." "This election was stolen," he said, and "it has to be vindicated to save our country."

Giuliani, who had led Trump's string of unsuccessful efforts to block certification in courts of law, declared instead, "Let's have trial by combat.' The crowd cheered.
Click to expand...
Then Junior spoke.
... In what should have been a sign of how the crowd was receiving the Defendants' claims and allegations, spontaneous chants of "Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!" rose up as Trump Jr. lambasted the alleged "glaring inconsistencies" and "statistical impossibilities" that allegedly had made President Biden's win possible.

Trump Jr. also said the assembled crowd "should be a message to all the Republicans who have not been willing to actually fight. The people who did nothing to stop the steal. This gathering should send message to them: this isn't their Republican party anymore. This is Donald Trump's Republican party."

Trump Jr., knowing full well how his father had attacked Vice President Pence in recent days for his intended refusal to block certification, went on to blast other Republicans who refused to fight for his father:

"This is the Republican party that's not just going to roll over and die because the Democrats would like you to. That is what so many in the Republican establishment have created. That sort of mentality: OK, we'll turn the other cheek. We'll roll over and die. We'll fold and give up. No more! So to those Republicans--many of which may be voting on things in the coming hours--you have an opportunity today. You can be a hero, or you can be a zero. And the choice is yours, but we are all watching!"

Trump Jr. concluded by stating, "If you're gonna be the zero, and not the hero, we're coming for you, and we're gonna have a good time doing it." The crowd cheered in response.
Click to expand...
If this case goes to court, what defense will the defendants offer? That their rhetoric about fighting was purely metaphorical?
 
Finally, Trump himself.
In his remarks, Trump said "We took them by surprise and this year, they rigged an election. They rigged it like they've never rigged an election before."

Trump continued that "Hundreds of thousands of American patriots are committed to the honesty of our elections and the integrity of our glorious Republic. All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical left Democrats, which is what they're doing and stolen by the fake news media. That's what they've done and what they're doing. We will never give up."

Trump also said "We will never concede, it doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved. Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore and that's what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal." In referring to "the steal," Trump meant the certification of Joseph Biden as President, which was underway at the Capitol.

...
Trump continued to incite the crowd. Frump concluded his speech by reminding the crowd that they'll "never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong." He told the crowd to "walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol ... But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country." The crowd cheered in response.
Click to expand...
Rigged like never before? Trump is a historical illiterate.

The brief then went into the details of the Capitol attacks. During those attacks, Trump tweeted
Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!
2:24 PM • Jan 6, 2021
Click to expand...
The attackers were talking about lynching him and this is how Trump responded.
 
Trump showed how much respect he has for his fellow Republicans:
In another phone call, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy begged Trump to call off the rioters, pleading with him that the rioters were all Trump supporters. In response, Trump told McCarthy, "Well, Kevin, guess these people are more upset about the election than you are."
Click to expand...
Later on, Trump tweeted
Please support our Capitol Police and Law Enforcement. They are truly on the side of our Country. Stay peaceful!
2:38 PM • Jan 6, 2021 • Twitter for iPhone
Click to expand...
Then a video message from him:
In the video, Trump told the mob, "I know your pain, I know you're hurt," and repeated his lies about a stolen election that had driven the insurgents to the Capitol in the first place. In the same breath he told the mob to go home, he also said, "We love you. You're very special."
Click to expand...
Around 6:01 pm, Trump tweeted:
These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!
6:01 PM Jan 2021
Click to expand...
Still calling himself a victim.

Which he continues to do.
 
...so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away...
Click to expand...

By the judges he appointed.

I still think we should do away with voting machines.

I also think voting should take place over several days so more people can vote. And mail in voting should be available to anyone for any reason.
 
There are different kinds of "voting machines". In my town we get paper ballots and essentially use a sharpie to fill in the Oval where we vote. It goes into the machine and the filled in ovals get scanned and tabulated. I personally think that this is the best way to do it as there are always the paper ballots as a paper trail instead of some black box.
 
crazyfingers said:
There are different kinds of "voting machines". In my town we get paper ballots and essentially use a sharpie to fill in the Oval where we vote. It goes into the machine and the filled in ovals get scanned and tabulated. I personally think that this is the best way to do it as there are always the paper ballots as a paper trail instead of some black box.
Click to expand...

So you don't have voting machines, but you do have vote counting machines.

That's less of a problem as far as I can see. I still think paper ballots counted and then re-checked by hand are the most secure and accurate system though. And security and accuracy are everything. There's no need for speed or even to keep costs down - if you're going to have a democracy, it's worth the time and money to get it right.
 
untermensche said:
jab said:
You seem to take the position that Buckley was a fascist on this issue and that therefore his line of argument ipso facto was not worth engaging with, which Chomsky didn't do. Because you agree with Chomsky, whom many on the left regard as a brilliant saint who can never ever make a mistake, you read argumentative power into his deflecting response to Buckley. Chomsky did not argue against Buckley well here. As a literary scholar, I first came across Chomsky decades ago in his Philistine and pedestrian linguistic theories, and I found him quite capable of occasionally thinking poorly.
Let me say that the cult of personality crosses political boundaries, and should be resisted in oneself as well as pointed out in others such as Trumpist coupsters.
Click to expand...

Buckley had no argument.

He only had the lies told by an imperial power as it tried to maintain control of a population with force.

Your non sequitur about cults may be true but the only cult members in that argument were the one's saying the US had any right to do it.
Click to expand...
The followers of Trump don't think it's a cult, and are unable to acknowledge that the other side even as an argument--it's all "fake news". You recast Buckley's line of argumentation as lies--one can still make an argment using lies, just as one cam make a syllogism using one or more false premises.
 
bilby said:
crazyfingers said:
There are different kinds of "voting machines". In my town we get paper ballots and essentially use a sharpie to fill in the Oval where we vote. It goes into the machine and the filled in ovals get scanned and tabulated. I personally think that this is the best way to do it as there are always the paper ballots as a paper trail instead of some black box.
Click to expand...

So you don't have voting machines, but you do have vote counting machines.

That's less of a problem as far as I can see. I still think paper ballots counted and then re-checked by hand are the most secure and accurate system though. And security and accuracy are everything. There's no need for speed or even to keep costs down - if you're going to have a democracy, it's worth the time and money to get it right.
Click to expand...
How many races are on ballots you vote on down under?

Watching the BBC World News (other side of the pond), they were a bit surprised at some ballots being four or more large pages long (double sided).
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
bilby said:
crazyfingers said:
There are different kinds of "voting machines". In my town we get paper ballots and essentially use a sharpie to fill in the Oval where we vote. It goes into the machine and the filled in ovals get scanned and tabulated. I personally think that this is the best way to do it as there are always the paper ballots as a paper trail instead of some black box.
Click to expand...

So you don't have voting machines, but you do have vote counting machines.

That's less of a problem as far as I can see. I still think paper ballots counted and then re-checked by hand are the most secure and accurate system though. And security and accuracy are everything. There's no need for speed or even to keep costs down - if you're going to have a democracy, it's worth the time and money to get it right.
Click to expand...
How many races are on ballots you vote on down under?

Watching the BBC World News (other side of the pond), they were a bit surprised at some ballots being four or more large pages long (double sided).
Click to expand...

My ballot is never over one sheet. Printed both sides. The sheet may be 16-18 inches long though.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
bilby said:
crazyfingers said:
There are different kinds of "voting machines". In my town we get paper ballots and essentially use a sharpie to fill in the Oval where we vote. It goes into the machine and the filled in ovals get scanned and tabulated. I personally think that this is the best way to do it as there are always the paper ballots as a paper trail instead of some black box.
Click to expand...

So you don't have voting machines, but you do have vote counting machines.

That's less of a problem as far as I can see. I still think paper ballots counted and then re-checked by hand are the most secure and accurate system though. And security and accuracy are everything. There's no need for speed or even to keep costs down - if you're going to have a democracy, it's worth the time and money to get it right.
Click to expand...
How many races are on ballots you vote on down under?

Watching the BBC World News (other side of the pond), they were a bit surprised at some ballots being four or more large pages long (double sided).
Click to expand...

Well, we have representative democracy, and expect our elected representatives to make decisions (which is what they're paid for), so we don't vote for minor officials in the insane way the USA does.

Typically at an Australian federal election there are two ballots.

This is what a Senate paper looks like though:

IMG_5832.JPG
(not my picture - just grabbed it from Google)

That's a fairly typical size for a Senate ballot paper.
 
crazyfingers said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
How many races are on ballots you vote on down under?

Watching the BBC World News (other side of the pond), they were a bit surprised at some ballots being four or more large pages long (double sided).
Click to expand...

My ballot is never over one sheet. Printed both sides. The sheet may be 16-18 inches long though.
Click to expand...

For presidential elections we typically have two pages, front and back, and the pages are definitely oversized, probably in the range you mention, or just below. Of course the font size of the text is enormous, and it could easily be reduced by half, and still be readable for most people. Of course, I wouldn't expect them to just try to make it big enough for most people, it is pretty important, so it should be sized large enough for everyone to read provided they are not legally blind.
 
crazyfingers said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
How many races are on ballots you vote on down under?

Watching the BBC World News (other side of the pond), they were a bit surprised at some ballots being four or more large pages long (double sided).
Click to expand...

My ballot is never over one sheet. Printed both sides. The sheet may be 16-18 inches long though.
Click to expand...

I haven't voted on paper in years.

I can't remember the last time I voted when it wasn't some sort of machine, kinda like a suitcase sized ATM.
Tom
 
jab said:
untermensche said:
jab said:
You seem to take the position that Buckley was a fascist on this issue and that therefore his line of argument ipso facto was not worth engaging with, which Chomsky didn't do. Because you agree with Chomsky, whom many on the left regard as a brilliant saint who can never ever make a mistake, you read argumentative power into his deflecting response to Buckley. Chomsky did not argue against Buckley well here. As a literary scholar, I first came across Chomsky decades ago in his Philistine and pedestrian linguistic theories, and I found him quite capable of occasionally thinking poorly.
Let me say that the cult of personality crosses political boundaries, and should be resisted in oneself as well as pointed out in others such as Trumpist coupsters.
Click to expand...

Buckley had no argument.

He only had the lies told by an imperial power as it tried to maintain control of a population with force.

Your non sequitur about cults may be true but the only cult members in that argument were the one's saying the US had any right to do it.
Click to expand...
The followers of Trump don't think it's a cult, and are unable to acknowledge that the other side even as an argument--it's all "fake news". You recast Buckley's line of argumentation as lies--one can still make an argment using lies, just as one cam make a syllogism using one or more false premises.
Click to expand...

I did not recast anything.

They were lies all along.

The US supported the French regain it's colonies.

When the French said the price was too high the US used lies to attack South Vietnam.

Buckley just repeats the lies.

He is the cult member swallowing lies whole and Chomsky is the moral voice of reason.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom