Kapaernick

[Jimmy Higgins]

This one seems squarely in the category of stating an opinion. That's clearly allowed.

Free speech is what this country is based on!

Including the players.

If memory serves, the citizen is protected from the Government restricting their rights to speech. Trump is pressuring (in the sense of that is what he wants but won't get it) private owners to punish citizens for their speech/expression. The First Amendment is supposed to shield citizens from such crap. The President does not have some sort of magic shield from the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment was written to keep the Government (that includes the President) from interfering with its citizens and the views they hold.

Our nation has generally been free of this bullshit since McCarthy. That'd be one of the actual principles the flag is supposed to represent. Not just unquestioned allegiance to the Government and dog whistling about the military.

Your workplace argument doesn't work here as the NFL has given it's implied consent to these players taking a knee on the sideline.

Exactly! This whole, 'well they don't have to have this right' at the office is crap because the owners haven't indicated they have a problem with this.

 

[dismal]

This one seems squarely in the category of stating an opinion. That's clearly allowed.

Free speech is what this country is based on!

Including the players. Here we have a governmental official, using his position in office, to call for people to being deprived of their employment, for having political views he doesn't approve of. Sounds like a more subtle version of McCarthyism to me. You want to call for people to lose their jobs; forfeit the powers of the office. If he were a general (or other powerful military official) I'd say "take off the uniform".

Your workplace argument doesn't work here as the NFL has given it's implied consent to these players taking a knee on the sideline.

Well, you're wrong. Trump is allowed to state his opinions using his free speech rights.

Remember, free speech is what makes America America.

And fortunately, your free speech rights allow you to make absurd statements like this without being hauled off to jail.

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Including the players.

If memory serves, the citizen is protected from the Government restricting their rights to speech. Trump is pressuring (in the sense of that is what he wants but won't get it) private owners to punish citizens for their speech/expression. The First Amendment is supposed to shield citizens from such crap. The President does not have some sort of magic shield from the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment was written to keep the Government (that includes the President) from interfering with its citizens and the views they hold.

Our nation has generally been free of this bullshit since McCarthy.

Your workplace argument doesn't work here as the NFL has given it's implied consent to these players taking a knee on the sideline.

Exactly! This whole, 'well they don't have to have this right' at the office is crap because the owners haven't indicated they have a problem with this.

You realize you're the one arguing to stifle someone's speech here, right? Quite the little fascist, aren't you.

You know who else didn't like free speech? Hitler.

 

[Terrell]

Including the players. Here we have a governmental official, using his position in office, to call for people to being deprived of their employment, for having political views he doesn't approve of. Sounds like a more subtle version of McCarthyism to me. You want to call for people to lose their jobs; forfeit the powers of the office. If he were a general (or other powerful military official) I'd say "take off the uniform".

Your workplace argument doesn't work here as the NFL has given it's implied consent to these players taking a knee on the sideline.

Well, you're wrong. Trump is allowed to state his opinions using his free speech rights.

Remember, free speech is what makes America America.

And fortunately, your free speech rights allow you to make absurd statements like this without being hauled off to jail.

- - - Updated - - -

Including the players.

If memory serves, the citizen is protected from the Government restricting their rights to speech. Trump is pressuring (in the sense of that is what he wants but won't get it) private owners to punish citizens for their speech/expression. The First Amendment is supposed to shield citizens from such crap. The President does not have some sort of magic shield from the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment was written to keep the Government (that includes the President) from interfering with its citizens and the views they hold.

Our nation has generally been free of this bullshit since McCarthy.

Your workplace argument doesn't work here as the NFL has given it's implied consent to these players taking a knee on the sideline.

Exactly! This whole, 'well they don't have to have this right' at the office is crap because the owners haven't indicated they have a problem with this.

You realize you're the one arguing to stifle someone's speech here, right? Quite the little fascist, aren't you.

You know who else didn't like free speech? Hitler.

Free speech is not absolute. Give up the powers of the office first.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I like how dismal is arguing for one person's free speech that advocates against allowing another's free speech/expression.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I like how dismal is arguing for one person's free speech that advocates against allowing another's free speech/expression.

As dis has already garnered the Godwin Prize if trump advocated exterminating this behavior, which he is advocating, then it's just free speech, Like Hitler and Jews.

You'd thing Trump would be smarter but he isn't. Somewhat sad.

 

[dismal]

I like how dismal is arguing for one person's free speech that advocates against allowing another's free speech/expression.

The only person I hear trying to silence someone is you.

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Free speech is not absolute. Give up the powers of the office first.

So, now you're saying someone should give up their job if they want to exercise their free speech rights?

Another Nazi self identifies.

 

[sharon45]

OK, this shit is getting out of hand now
View attachment 12579

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?

 

[Terrell]

The only person I hear trying to silence someone is you.

- - - Updated - - -

Free speech is not absolute. Give up the powers of the office first.

So, now you're saying someone should give up their job if they want to exercise their free speech rights?

Another Nazi self identifies.

Name calling much? That usually means you don't have an argument. It's not much different than the tactic of distance & irritation.

In some instances, yes, they should give up their job. President, Congressmen, Senators would be examples, because they can use the power of the government to coerce private organizations to police the political beliefs of their employees. The average individual citizen doesn't have that kind of power, or the ability to stand up to it.

 

[dismal]

The only person I hear trying to silence someone is you.

- - - Updated - - -



So, now you're saying someone should give up their job if they want to exercise their free speech rights?

Another Nazi self identifies.

Name calling much? That usually means you don't have an argument. It's not much different than the tactic of distance & irritation.

In some instances, yes, they should give up their job. President, Congressmen, Senators would be examples, because they can use the power of the government to coerce private organizations to police the political beliefs of their employees. The average individual citizen doesn't have that kind of power, or the ability to stand up to it.

No, my argument is that you want to silence someone when America is based on free speech and freedom.

I only call you a Nazi because of your statements are consistent with what Nazis believe.

 

[sharon45]

The only person I hear trying to silence someone is you.

- - - Updated - - -



So, now you're saying someone should give up their job if they want to exercise their free speech rights?

Another Nazi self identifies.

Name calling much? That usually means you don't have an argument. It's not much different than the tactic of distance & irritation.

Go through most of the other threads and post that, because you are calling out a lot of people on all sides with this one.

The average individual citizen doesn't have that kind of power, or the ability to stand up to it.

Of course, hence average.

 

[Terrell]

Name calling much? That usually means you don't have an argument. It's not much different than the tactic of distance & irritation.

In some instances, yes, they should give up their job. President, Congressmen, Senators would be examples, because they can use the power of the government to coerce private organizations to police the political beliefs of their employees. The average individual citizen doesn't have that kind of power, or the ability to stand up to it.

No, my argument is that you want to silence someone when America is based on free speech and freedom.

I only call you a Nazi because of your statements are consistent with what Nazis believe.

No, this is an issue of President Trump having legal power that Mr. Trump (were he not president) wouldn't have and using it against private organizations to demand their employees toe a specific political line. Congress did this a few decades ago, it was called McCarthyism, and it wasn't a good chapter in American history. I think it's wrong for the government to be doing this.

Give up the power to use the law to coerce political compliance with your political views first. .

I've noticed that you have not addressed the actual points of my argument. You howl "free speech" and Nazi, but you don't address the issue of using the power of political office as a means of economic coercion of private citizens employed by private businesses. Do you actually have a substantive argument against my position? If not it's more than fair to call you out on Name calling, as well as using the tactic of "distance & irritation".

@Sharon, it's not the first time I've called people out on name-calling or distance & irritation tactics. I don't participate in every thread.

 

[ZiprHead]

OK, this shit is getting out of hand now
View attachment 12579

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?

What does this have to do with anything? Do you think just because these people are wealthy they shouldn't care about discrimination and injustice?

Should Lebron James not care about having the word nigger spray painted on his home?

Should other black athletes not care about being pulled over for driving-while-black?

The Disproportionate Risks of Driving While Black

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What does this have to do with anything? Do you think just because these people are wealthy they shouldn't care about discrimination and injustice?

Should Lebron James not care about having the word nigger spray painted on his home?

Should other black athletes not care about being pulled over for driving-while-black?

The Disproportionate Risks of Driving While Black

That makes sense. It's like how if a person has never personally been blown up by a Muslim terrorist, it would be out of line if they cared about the dangers from Muslim terrorists.

 

[dismal]

No, my argument is that you want to silence someone when America is based on free speech and freedom.

I only call you a Nazi because of your statements are consistent with what Nazis believe.

No, this is an issue of President Trump having legal power that Mr. Trump (were he not president) wouldn't have and using it against private organizations to demand their employees toe a specific political line. Congress did this a few decades ago, it was called McCarthyism, and it wasn't a good chapter in American history. I think it's wrong for the government to be doing this.

Give up the power to use the law to coerce political compliance with your political views first. .

I've noticed that you have not addressed the actual points of my argument. You howl "free speech" and Nazi, but you don't address the issue of using the power of political office as a means of economic coercion of private citizens employed by private businesses. Do you actually have a substantive argument against my position? If not it's more than fair to call you out on Name calling, as well as using the tactic of "distance & irritation".

@Sharon, it's not the first time I've called people out on name-calling or distance & irritation tactics. I don't participate in every thread.

The man expressed his opinion. He did not use the force of law or send troops to enforce his view. I agree that if he had done that, that would be wrong. But the situation we have is a) he didn't and b) you're pretending he did to silence him.

It was an act of speech, not government.

If you can't handle free speech maybe you need to leave America. We built our country on it.

Those of us who are not Nazis.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Neo-Nazis were marching in Charlottesville chanting for the death of the Jewish and the President couldn't speak against them for several days. A white woman was murdered by one of them. And the President couldn't speak out against them for days.

Odd how Trump has no trouble finding words to communicate his disgust with players who kneel during the anthem.

Trump's free speech? When a Neo-Nazi murdered a white woman, he didn't seem to be able to find the words.

 

[ksen]

It is about demanding someone else like it in the same way.

One man stood alone:

View attachment 12576

He wasn't doing what you imply he was doing. He came out yesterday and said that he meant for his actions to be understood as being in support of his kneeling teammates.

 

[ksen]

Mine is people should be allowed to freely protest and to freely salute.

You seem to be saying that saluting is the only thing you want allowed.

Nope. I strongly support the right of free protest and free speech. Though of course I might disagree with what some people say.

I'm just educated enough to know that those rights prevent only the government from punishing you for speaking, and I'm not stupid enough to think they apply in the workplace.

You mean like the President of the United States trying to get people fired for expressing an opinion he doesn't like?

 

[dismal]

He came out yesterday and said that he meant for his actions to be understood as being in support of his kneeling teammates.

Yes, of course. There's no better way to show support for something than to do the opposite of it.

I also like the way he apologized for making them look bad. Because evidently he thought they looked bad.

 

[dismal]

Nope. I strongly support the right of free protest and free speech. Though of course I might disagree with what some people say.

I'm just educated enough to know that those rights prevent only the government from punishing you for speaking, and I'm not stupid enough to think they apply in the workplace.

You mean like the President of the United States trying to get people fired for expressing an opinion he doesn't like?

Oh, look, we have another Nazi not comfortable with someone else's free speech.

 

[ksen]

Neo-Nazis were marching in Charlottesville chanting for the death of the Jewish and the President couldn't speak against them for several days. A white woman was murdered by one of them. And the President couldn't speak out against them for days.

Odd how Trump has no trouble finding words to communicate his disgust with players who kneel during the anthem.

Trump's free speech? When a Neo-Nazi murdered a white woman, he didn't seem to be able to find the words.

tbf one group was white and the other mostly black