Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[seanie]

Should transgender males be in a women prisons? I think the answer is quite obviously yes…

Why “quite obviously”?

Given that women’s prisons are supposed to for women,

You know, females?

Why is it “quite obvious” to you that women’s prisons should include male prisoners?

 

[Emily Lake]

Transwomen may not wish to use the men's restroom because they may have been sufficiently traumatized by a person of "penage". Are they supposed to get over their irrational fears? And, if so, how is that not profoundly bigoted?

Okay, let's start with this.

Men with gender identity issues might have been traumatized by men. That's certainly true. Why do you think that the solution to the trauma of men with gender identity issues is to traumatize a whole lot of women instead?

Why are the feelings of that particular man more important than the feelings and safety of all women?

 

[Emily Lake]

For myself, being in a bathroom or dressing room with a trans woman would not be much of a big deal but I won’t lie and say that I would not be startled to see an unexpected exposed penis or testicles.

I have used male facilities all my life, and I too would be startled to see an exposed penis or testicles. It's not something you routinely see in a men's room, inless you are actively trying to catch a glimpse, in which case you are likely to get your lights punched out.

Forgive me if I'm horribly ignorant... but have you never used a urinal? Or is it just that you haven't intentionally looked? My understanding is that the peni are certainly out there.

in which case you are likely to get your lights punched out.

Yeah... so what's the odds on an average female human being having the ability to punch the lights out of an average male human being who's having a peep? Who do you think is most likely to get injured in that situation?

 

[Emily Lake]

Feel free to pay extra to support your gender wishes, like individual toilets, but don't expect me to do that. I'm fine with the status quo.

For a person who has their own version of perversion, which to your luck, isn't a death sentence these days (in fact it is decriminalized now), you show absolutely no empathy to other people who are different than the baseline.

It is remarkable how little you give fuck about other people.

People can be as different as they want to be, that doesn't confer them the right to override consent and invade female single-sex spaces.

 

[laughing dog]

Transwomen may not wish to use the men's restroom because they may have been sufficiently traumatized by a person of "penage". Are they supposed to get over their irrational fears? And, if so, how is that not profoundly bigoted?

Okay, let's start with this.

Men with gender identity issues might have been traumatized by men. That's certainly true. Why do you think that the solution to the trauma of men with gender identity issues is to traumatize a whole lot of women instead?

I don’t.
Why do you hate men?

Why are the feelings of that particular man more important than the feelings and safety of all women?

See above.

 

[seanie]

There’s also the fundamental problem that the whole idea of self-ID into sex segregated spaces is not only a terrible idea, it guarantees dreadful headlines for trans women in general.

If that’s the policy, that males have a right to go into female spaces, and they can’t be questioned, what do you think will happen?

Good men stay out, so bad men stand out.

Wi Spa anyone?

 

[laughing dog]

It's the consequence of giving men the legal right to use women's restrooms on the basis of their magic words.

It is a possible consequence in some cases.

In what cases is it NOT a consequence?

When it doesn’t happen. Duh

 

[seanie]

I don’t.
Why do you hate men?

Don’t be silly.

It’s not about hating men.

But women have very, very, very good reasons to be wary of men in general.

I can see you want to prioritise males over females, but females don’t have to put up with that.

 

[laughing dog]

For myself, being in a bathroom or dressing room with a trans woman would not be much of a big deal but I won’t lie and say that I would not be startled to see an unexpected exposed penis or testicles.

I have used male facilities all my life, and I too would be startled to see an exposed penis or testicles. It's not something you routinely see in a men's room, inless you are actively trying to catch a glimpse, in which case you are likely to get your lights punched out.

Forgive me if I'm horribly ignorant... but have you never used a urinal? Or is it just that you haven't intentionally looked? My understanding is that the peni are certainly out there.

Unless someone has an exceptionally large penis or is exhibiting it, one usually has to make an effort to see it. And that effort is noticeable which is likely it cause an awkward social situation.

 

[laughing dog]

I don’t.
Why do you hate men?

Don’t be silly.

It’s not about hating men.

Your ability to miss the point is truly remarkable. I responded to ridiculous straw men with similar logic

But women have very, very, very good reasons to be wary of men in general.

I can see you want to prioritise males over females, but females don’t have to put up with that.

See above.

 

[seanie]

FFS, most trans women can be clocked at 49 paces.

They don’t need to have their cock out.

 

[Elixir]

Yawn.
Again - our public pool has men's and women's (separate) large locker rooms with changing and toilet facilities. There are also two small "all gender" rooms with changing facilities, a toilet and locking doors.
Never a problem.
I'm wary of everyone except young women. I fear them the most. Fortunately that means I'm wary - but not afraid - of anyone who is in the men's locker room. But not so wary that I bother going to one of the "all gender" rooms to lock myself safely away from the public menace that is the public, for the 120 seconds it takes me to strip off my bathing suit, towel off and put on some sweats.
Sheesh. Everyone - get over yourselves.
There are definitely situations that are threatening to women. There are other - probably more - situations that are threatening to trans people. But almost anyone can feel threatened. I remember not long ago going into a bar in Wisconsin - some backwater small town biker-ish bar, and thinking I'd be lucky to get out of there alive, just for not having chains dangling off me and asking for directions. No need to be perceived as gay, trans or other; simply not being a local was sufficient to get the threat vibe. I took the strong hint(s) and scrammed. I think that's the most usually effective tactic to avoid threats. The trick is not to be blind to the clues, whoever you are.

 

[seanie]

I don’t.
Why do you hate men?

Don’t be silly.

It’s not about hating men.

Your ability to miss the point is truly remarkable. I responded to ridiculous straw men with similar logic

But women have very, very, very good reasons to be wary of men in general.

I can see you want to prioritise males over females, but females don’t have to put up with that.

See above.

No, you just don’t have a coherent argument as to why males should be allowed into female spaces on their say so.

Because it’s a very silly position, and very difficult to defend when language is used accurately.

 

[Emily Lake]

The reality is we really still don't get transgender issues at the moment. It is important to make decisions about it as such. Calling transgender women "men" or "males" belittles the real world mindset of transgender males. It implies an utter lack of empathy or care, in fact, it kind of suggests malice.

Calling males with gender identity issues "women" and pretending that there's no meaningful difference between them and actual women belittles the real world experiences of actual women which bear nothing in common with such males. Insisting that women must give over in preference to men with gender identity issues shows an utter lack of empathy or care for women, and rather suggests some pretty deep-seated malice toward females of the human species.

Should transgender males be in a women prisons? I think the answer is quite obviously yes...

NO! Why on earth do you think that any males, in any circumstances at all be placed in women's prisons? Why do you think this is "obvious" and have you even for one instant considered the impact this has on women?

after a very complete examination and review of each individual case. It would seem absurd to toss people who are sexual predators into a prison of women. What I find quite telling is that you (and others) apparently think tossing people who are sexual predators into a prison of men is... okay.

I think tossing males into a male prison is okay, regardless of what their crimes are. If they're particularly vulnerable males, then they should be protected from harm.

But women aren't human shields.

 

[laughing dog]

I don’t.
Why do you hate men?

Don’t be silly.

It’s not about hating men.

Your ability to miss the point is truly remarkable. I responded to ridiculous straw men with similar logic

But women have very, very, very good reasons to be wary of men in general.

I can see you want to prioritise males over females, but females don’t have to put up with that.

See above.

No, you just don’t have a coherent argument as to why males should be allowed into female spaces on their say so.

Because it’s a very silly position, and very difficult to defend when language is used accurately.

I’ve never made that argument. Your ability to miss the point is truly remarkable.

 

[seanie]

Well no, of course you haven’t articulated your actual position, because it’s ridiculous.

I understand that.

 

[Emily Lake]

Why do you hate men?

I don't hate men. I'm generally fond of most men. That said, I also value my privacy, and I am aware that some men are a risk to women. I simply don't think that women should be required to surrender sex-specific intimate spaces so that some men with professed gender identity issues can have happier feels.

And let's be honest about this. If you give ANY men of any sort the privilege of using female sex-specific spaces, you end up giving that privilege to ALL men. Because there's literally no way at all to tell who is a male with a gender identity issue and who's a male exploiting the enormous loophole. Any man at all can simply claim to be trans and have the run of the place.

 

[laughing dog]

Well no, of course you haven’t articulated your actual position, because it’s ridiculous.

I understand that.

If it makes you feel better, keep believing it, even if it is a truly unlikely event.

 

[Emily Lake]

It's the consequence of giving men the legal right to use women's restrooms on the basis of their magic words.

It is a possible consequence in some cases.

In what cases is it NOT a consequence?

When it doesn’t happen. Duh

I don't even have words for this.

If you give males who profess to have a gender identity issue the right to use sex-specific spaces where women are partially or completely nude, then you've created a situation in which any man who wants to engage in either voyeurism or exhibitionism the *right* to do so. Any man who wants to see boobies without consent just has to say magic words and they get to see all the boobies they want. Any man who wants to flash his junk at women just has to say magic words, and he gets to show off his dick at will.

"Oh, I'm not peeping the boobs and asses, I'm just any other woman because I feel like a woman, and a woman is anyone who says they're a woman"
"Oh, I'm not flashing these women, I'm just a naked woman just like any other naked woman at the korean spa. I'm just a woman with a perfectly normal ladypenis so it's okay"

And that's not the consequence... when it doesn't happen. That's inane, LD. Like completely lacking in even the pretense of rationality.

 

[seanie]

Do expand.

Which males who say they are female should be allowed into female only spaces?

Which males aren’t?

And which spaces?

Lay out your considered thinking,