Londonistan, Eurabia

[laughing dog]

Could you cite that claim. Thanks.

There is always the other seven Subways in Bristol they can go to.

2/9 is 22% to serve at most 5% of the population. In reality even many Muslims will eat in non-halal places even if they forego pork products. And some even eat pork. So you have 22% of the restaurants halal because <5% demand restaurants serve halal only meats.

So a minority of the Subway stores are targeting a modified product to a minority of the population. The numbers seem to line up.

Not only that, but there is no reason to assume that the sales are distributed evenly among the 9 stores. It is possible that those 2 stores generate much less than 22% of sales.

 

[Derec]

Not only that, but there is no reason to assume that the sales are distributed evenly among the 9 stores. It is possible that those 2 stores generate much less than 22% of sales.

Well after the stupid menu change it would not surprise me in the least if they did.

 

[KeepTalking]

What evidence do you have that Muslims are a small minority in the areas that these Subway stores serve?

For example Bristol, where two of these "halal only" Subways are, is only 5% Muslim. So 95% of Bristolites must cave to pressure by the 5%.

By my count, using Google Maps, there are a total of 20 Subway stores in the Bristol area. On a purely percentage basis, then we would expect at least one Subway store to cater to the Muslim population. On the other hand, I note that the stores are not evenly distributed, so both of these stores could easily be in or near neighborhood with a high Muslim demographic.

 

[Derec]

What evidence do you have that Muslims are a small minority in the areas that these Subway stores serve?

For example Bristol, where two of these "halal only" Subways are, is only 5% Muslim. So 95% of Bristolites must cave to pressure by the 5%.

By my count, using Google Maps, there are a total of 20 Subway stores in the Bristol area. On a purely percentage basis, then we would expect at least one Subway store to cater to the Muslim population. On the other hand, I note that the stores are not evenly distributed, so both of these stores could easily be in or near neighborhood with a high Muslim demographic.

If you are using "Bristol area" rather than "Bristol" you'd have to adjust Muslim population percentage accordingly.
As far as "high Muslim demographic", how high do you think percentage needs to be do cater solely to Muslim customers and basically say "fuck you" to everyone else?

 

[laughing dog]

Not only that, but there is no reason to assume that the sales are distributed evenly among the 9 stores. It is possible that those 2 stores generate much less than 22% of sales.

Well after the stupid menu change it would not surprise me in the least if they did.

Your responses reveal much more about your biases than actual reality.

 

[PyramidHead]

What evidence do you have that Muslims are a small minority in the areas that these Subway stores serve?

For example Bristol, where two of these "halal only" Subways are, is only 5% Muslim. So 95% of Bristolites must cave to pressure by the 5%.

By my count, using Google Maps, there are a total of 20 Subway stores in the Bristol area. On a purely percentage basis, then we would expect at least one Subway store to cater to the Muslim population. On the other hand, I note that the stores are not evenly distributed, so both of these stores could easily be in or near neighborhood with a high Muslim demographic.

If you are using "Bristol area" rather than "Bristol" you'd have to adjust Muslim population percentage accordingly.
As far as "high Muslim demographic", how high do you think percentage needs to be do cater solely to Muslim customers and basically say "fuck you" to everyone else?

As high as the company feels is necessary to justify the expense of changing their menu and alienating some customers. You're making this into a public policy issue when it's solely the cost/benefit analysis of a private franchise.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

What evidence do you have that Muslims are a small minority in the areas that these Subway stores serve?

For example Bristol, where two of these "halal only" Subways are, is only 5% Muslim. So 95% of Bristolites must cave to pressure by the 5%.

By my count, using Google Maps, there are a total of 20 Subway stores in the Bristol area. On a purely percentage basis, then we would expect at least one Subway store to cater to the Muslim population. On the other hand, I note that the stores are not evenly distributed, so both of these stores could easily be in or near neighborhood with a high Muslim demographic.

If you are using "Bristol area" rather than "Bristol" you'd have to adjust Muslim population percentage accordingly.
As far as "high Muslim demographic", how high do you think percentage needs to be do cater solely to Muslim customers and basically say "fuck you" to everyone else?

Yes, they said, "Fuck off you unclean swine", and began to shoot everybody while hooting "Allah Akbar!"
Either that, or they made a business decisions. If they happen to piss off thousands of individuals who can only eat heavily processed pork product, they have made a poor business decision.

 

[KeepTalking]

What evidence do you have that Muslims are a small minority in the areas that these Subway stores serve?

For example Bristol, where two of these "halal only" Subways are, is only 5% Muslim. So 95% of Bristolites must cave to pressure by the 5%.

By my count, using Google Maps, there are a total of 20 Subway stores in the Bristol area. On a purely percentage basis, then we would expect at least one Subway store to cater to the Muslim population. On the other hand, I note that the stores are not evenly distributed, so both of these stores could easily be in or near neighborhood with a high Muslim demographic.

If you are using "Bristol area" rather than "Bristol" you'd have to adjust Muslim population percentage accordingly.

In the Google search, I just used Bristol, UK. I did note that at least one seems to be in a suburb of Bristol, probably a couple of others as well. Of course, I have no idea of how accurate your 5% Muslim figure is either, and whether or not it also includes suburbs in the Bristol area. It could very well be that the Muslim demographic is even higher if we include the suburbs.

As far as "high Muslim demographic", how high do you think percentage needs to be do cater solely to Muslim customers and basically say "fuck you" to everyone else?

51%, but of course they are not saying "fuck you" to everyone else. Non Muslims are perfectly capable of eating Halal foods. They are only saying "fuck you" to those people who religiously eat only pork. Does anyone know if there is a Church of Bacon in Bristol? I would imagine those folks might be a bit pissed off.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So what customers are they restricting?

Those that want to eat anything other than halal food. Having only halal food restricts choices because of religious pressure of a minority.

Well, you've yet to show it's religious pressure, vice economic. And if it's economic, then it really argues against it being the pressure being from a minority, right? At least, in the neighborhood these 200 some stores are in, if the economic power makes a halal-store feasible, it's not a minority there.

As to restricted they may lose custom, but how many people have they actually restricted? My KFC doesn't carry chicken egg foo yung. If i want EFY i'll go elsewhere, but i'm not restricted from eating at KFC for that reason.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Anybody but fundy Muslims.

I kinda remember some time ago, one of the things we buy regularly at the store going into a contract dispute with the authority that certifies food as Kosher. I remember being mildly surprised to discover that it was Kosher.
It didn't matter to me that it was, it didn't matter to me that it wouldn't be.
They eventually resolved it and it's all Kosher again. Like i said, it mattered not to me. I made some comment about it at work, when all was said and done, and a coworker got quite upset.

He vowed never to buy that product ever again.

He woulcn't quite explain why. It's certainly not that he was an observant...anything. So there was no restriction keeping him from Kashrut product. There was no change to the taste or the nutritional content.

He apparently just wanted to take offense as the existence of Jewish-Friendly Soda.

 

[Derec]

Well, you've yet to show it's religious pressure, vice economic.

Well if it was economic it would simply mean adding menu items desired by some customers. Removing all other items means a pressure to not offer items that certain customers don't like.

And if it's economic, then it really argues against it being the pressure being from a minority, right? At least, in the neighborhood these 200 some stores are in, if the economic power makes a halal-store feasible, it's not a minority there.

That is speculation. I have seen no evidence that the areas around the halal only stores are majority Muslim.

As to restricted they may lose custom, but how many people have they actually restricted? My KFC doesn't carry chicken egg foo yung. If i want EFY i'll go elsewhere, but i'm not restricted from eating at KFC for that reason.

No, bad analogy. It would me like if you neighborhood KFC carried chicken egg foo yung. Then a bunch of bozos create a pressure group to remove that selection for the menu, because it's not enough for them to not order it but its mere existence as an option offends them.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is speculation.

You win the thread for most ironic post.

This change affects what, 7 sammages? The way you are going on, you'd swear that upon entrance, you'd have to take off your shoes, be handed a rug to pray on, and then pray for 40 minutes while waiting for your sub, made entirely out of rock badger, was prepared fresh.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Well if it was economic it would simply mean adding menu items desired by some customers.

As was mentioned somewhere above, halal is not merely a food group. It is a way of preparing food and, critically, taking care to separate different foods, esp. keeping the non-halal foods apart. It would require more training of the workers and a redesign of the kitchen and distinction in the plates, trays, food containers, storage. Far, far more economically feasible to just make it a halal-only place than a halal and non-halal place. People keeping halal are actually restricted from places that do not observe the rules of food preparation. it's not simply a matter of items on the menu.

Removing all other items means a pressure to not offer items that certain customers don't like.

No, it doesn't necessarily mean that.
What do you think halal means, camel meat and yogurt?

And if it's economic, then it really argues against it being the pressure being from a minority, right? At least, in the neighborhood these 200 some stores are in, if the economic power makes a halal-store feasible, it's not a minority there.

That is speculation. I have seen no evidence that the areas around the halal only stores are majority Muslim.

But then, what evidence do you have that they're not? How can you be so certain it's a minority-religious pressure thing, and not economic?
I mean, aside from apparent ignorance of what the decision actually entails.

As to restricted they may lose custom, but how many people have they actually restricted? My KFC doesn't carry chicken egg foo yung. If i want EFY i'll go elsewhere, but i'm not restricted from eating at KFC for that reason.

No, bad analogy.

You said customers were restricted. Your effort to rewrite the analogy still doesn't show where any fucking customers are restricted from eating at the halal-only store.
Other than the fact it doesn't appear to pander to their (or your) biases, no one's restricted who wouldn't already have been restricted from eating at a Subway.

- - - Updated - - -

made entirely out of rock badger, was prepared fresh.

Oooh, should have read this before the camel and yogurt comment.
Much better imagery.

Yet i must spread reputatoin around before reputing Higgins again.

 

[crispy]

Not only that, but there is no reason to assume that the sales are distributed evenly among the 9 stores. It is possible that those 2 stores generate much less than 22% of sales.

Well after the stupid menu change it would not surprise me in the least if they did.

Jesus Derec, stop being a child and admit that you are probably overreacting. Ever stop to think that most people dont care if they don't get the pork choice? If I was to get a turkey sandwich why would I care if its in a halal store or not?

 

[Derec]

Jesus Derec, stop being a child and admit that you are probably overreacting. Ever stop to think that most people dont care if they don't get the pork choice? If I was to get a turkey sandwich why would I care if its in a halal store or not?

I know it might seem like not a big deal but I view it as more of a camel's nose in the tent. The thing is that if a vocal minority demands a restaurant must be "halal only" and the majority, out of fear of being branded "islamphobes", do not say or do anything then what can be expected is that more and more restaurants will be pressured to islamicize, and people will have progressively fewer choices.

 

[Metaphor]

Not only that, but there is no reason to assume that the sales are distributed evenly among the 9 stores. It is possible that those 2 stores generate much less than 22% of sales.

Well after the stupid menu change it would not surprise me in the least if they did.

Jesus Derec, stop being a child and admit that you are probably overreacting. Ever stop to think that most people dont care if they don't get the pork choice? If I was to get a turkey sandwich why would I care if its in a halal store or not?

It is, overall, unfortunate that some people think God does not want them to eat pork and that cattle need to be slaughtered in a certain way that is even less humane than typical Western slaughtering methods.

I am not a vegetarian, but I don't buy cage eggs, and I will not knowingly eat halal meat. Halal-certified meat is both less efficient (meaning it's going to cost me more $) and less humane (meaning it's going to twinge at my conscience that little bit more) than non-Halal meat, so basically it's a double whammy against it.

Derec is right that the crazy, irrational beliefs of the religious have restricted choice and convenience, but it was a market mechanism. No-one held a gun to anyone's head. And I suggest that people who do want to eat non-halal meat actively boycott the Subways that serve halal meat.

(Also, it's a shame that the origin of kebabs is from Muslim-majority nations. I would love to have a kebab with a bit of fried bacon in there.)

 

[Jokodo]

Jesus Derec, stop being a child and admit that you are probably overreacting. Ever stop to think that most people dont care if they don't get the pork choice? If I was to get a turkey sandwich why would I care if its in a halal store or not?

I know it might seem like not a big deal but I view it as more of a camel's nose in the tent. The thing is that if a vocal minority demands a restaurant must be "halal only" and the majority, out of fear of being branded "islamphobes", do not say or do anything then what can be expected is that more and more restaurants will be pressured to islamicize, and people will have progressively fewer choices.

This has nothing to do with fear of being branded anything, and everything with supply and demand.

I'm a smoker living in one of those backward countries that still allow indoor smoking in bars and restaurants. But when a bar decides to go non-smoking without legal pressure, I don't go batshit insane about how my freedom is being taken away. I accept that I basically two options: Continue patronising the bar (and refrain from smoking go outside to smoke when I need it), or go another bar where I can smoke inside. Same story here: If you can't have a meal without pork, you're going to have to find another place to patronise, but most pork-eaters don't die from turkey.

If you don't like that analogy, here's another one: My nearest supermarket stopped selling lemon juice in liter bottles - something I very much need because diluted (appr. 1:15) lemon juice is my major source of H20 other than beer and coffee. That gives me three rational options: buying lemon juice in a 200ml bottle although it costs about twice as much per unit, going to another supermarket 100 metres further down the road that still offers it, or switching to orange juice. What isn't a rational option is blaming the other costumers for oppressing me by not buying enough lemon juice.

 

[RavenSky]

I wish Subway stores in the USA carried porn products.

I wish Subway stores in the USA carried porn products.

Are you interested in a 6 inch or a footlong?

:rolling:

 

[RavenSky]

This is the worse thing since McDonalds started selling all beef patties.

Actually it would be like McD's banning beef patties and switching to tofu patties to appease the Hindu/Jainist/PETA population.

At 11.5% of its total stores. McDonald's already has veggie burgers at select locations.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Jesus Derec, stop being a child and admit that you are probably overreacting. Ever stop to think that most people dont care if they don't get the pork choice? If I was to get a turkey sandwich why would I care if its in a halal store or not?

I know it might seem like not a big deal but I view it as more of a camel's nose in the tent. The thing is that if a vocal minority demands a restaurant must be "halal only" and the majority, out of fear of being branded "islamphobes", do not say or do anything then what can be expected is that more and more restaurants will be pressured to islamicize, .

As someone once said: That is speculation.

and people will have progressively fewer choices

If you heard that 200 Subway stores in California went completely vegan, no animal flesh of any kind, would you fear that soon people in Detroit would be losing their choice of roast beef sandwiches? Seriously?
This is fear mongering.