Looks Like Cosby May Walk

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, I'm talking about his Civil trial testimony, where he admitted to conspiring to obtain quaaludes to give women.

That isn't what you said.

Again, I'm showing off my checkered past. But conspiring to buy prescription drugs without a prescription is barely a crime. It certainly isn't rape.

It'd be the providing it to the women and then taking advantage of it that'd be the rape.

Frankly, it was an efficient alternative to buying her dinner, sitting through some dumb chick flick movie, then buying drinks afterwards.

I guess you had to be there.

Or you might have committed a crime. TomAto, ToMAHto I suppose.

But yeah, women have cadged all kinds of stuff from horny men with sex. Even the tacit promises of sex can get some guys to spend half their paycheck.

This isn't about metaphors, but Bill Cosby and the women he gave drugs to (didn't take them himself, specifically at those times) before raping them.

 

[TomC]

Yeah, I'm talking about his Civil trial testimony, where he admitted to conspiring to obtain quaaludes to give women.

That isn't what you said.

Again, I'm showing off my checkered past. But conspiring to buy prescription drugs without a prescription is barely a crime. It certainly isn't rape.

Frankly, it was an efficient alternative to buying her dinner, sitting through some dumb chick flick movie, then buying drinks afterwards.

I guess you had to be there.
But yeah, women have cadged all kinds of stuff from horny men with sex. Even the tacit promises of sex can get some guys to spend half their paycheck.
Tom

That just sounds creepy.

What part?
The part about women manipulating men with sex?

I don't see any of it as creepy so much as immoral. Humans have a long history of immoral behavior.
Tom

 

[TomC]

It'd be the providing it to the women and then taking advantage of it that'd be the rape.

This sounds like you think women incapable of autonomy and consent.

You may disapprove of 'ludes, I understand that. I do as well. But if a competent adult decides to pop a couple...

Tom

 

[laughing dog]

Yeah, I'm talking about his Civil trial testimony, where he admitted to conspiring to obtain quaaludes to give women.

That isn't what you said.

Again, I'm showing off my checkered past. But conspiring to buy prescription drugs without a prescription is barely a crime. It certainly isn't rape.

Frankly, it was an efficient alternative to buying her dinner, sitting through some dumb chick flick movie, then buying drinks afterwards.

Mr. Cosby did not drug his victims with their permission or for their benefit. Whether you like it or not, he did rape women. There is no doubt about it. Why is the point of minimizing/defending his behavior?

 

[Toni]

That just sounds creepy.

What part?
The part about women manipulating men with sex?

I don't see any of it as creepy so much as immoral. Humans have a long history of immoral behavior.
Tom

Manipulating is one thing.

Drugging so as to remove the possibility of either giving consent to sex or protesting rape is, well, rape.

 

[Toni]

It'd be the providing it to the women and then taking advantage of it that'd be the rape.

This sounds like you think women incapable of autonomy and consent.

You may disapprove of 'ludes, I understand that. I do as well. But if a competent adult decides to pop a couple...

Tom

Right. If two competent people each decide to pop a 'lude, well, then que sera sera.

But that ain't what happened. There is actually zero disagreement about whether or not Cosby drugged the women without their knowledge and then raped them. Cosby was released due to a legal technicality.

Call it the cynic in me but I'd be surprised if there were not some money exchanged to smooth this release.

 

[Gospel]

It'd be the providing it to the women and then taking advantage of it that'd be the rape.

This sounds like you think women incapable of autonomy and consent.

You may disapprove of 'ludes, I understand that. I do as well. But if a competent adult decides to pop a couple...

Tom

I think the problem with Cosby was the "competent adult decides" part was missing in many instances.

 

[TomC]

Mr. Cosby did not drug his victims with their permission

I'm only talking about the Constand case.

Cosby didn't drug her at all.
Constand asked for drugs, Cosby supplied some, Constand decided to take them.

That isn't drugging anyone without permission. Constand drugged herself.

I can understand why.
Tom

 

[TomC]

It'd be the providing it to the women and then taking advantage of it that'd be the rape.

This sounds like you think women incapable of autonomy and consent.

You may disapprove of 'ludes, I understand that. I do as well. But if a competent adult decides to pop a couple...

Tom

I think the problem with Cosby was the "competent adult decides" part was missing in many instances.

Where exactly?
Are you asserting that Constand is not a competent adult?

I think her sleazy, but don't doubt her competence. Why do you?
Tom

 

[Toni]

Mr. Cosby did not drug his victims with their permission

I'm only talking about the Constand case.

Cosby didn't drug her at all.
Constand asked for drugs, Cosby supplied some, Constand decided to take them.

That isn't drugging anyone without permission. Constand drugged herself.

I can understand why.
Tom

It's not 'drugging yourself' if you are misled as to the strength and nature of the pills you ingest. Just as it's not 'drugging yourself' if you willingly drink a glass of wine or whatever, not knowing that the drink is laced with a sedative or other drug.

Constand was rendered unable to defend herself against the sexual assault she did not want because Cosby deliberately and knowingly misled her about the nature of what he was giving her. So yeah, he drugged her.

 

[TomC]

It's not 'drugging yourself' if you are misled as to the strength and nature of the pills you ingest.

I just don't share your attachment to victimhood.

If you ask for drugs that's on you to determine if you want to take them.
I still see the basic argument here as "She's a woman. Of course she can't take responsibility for her decisions."

I don't buy that. Might have been a reasonable assumption a century ago, but it isn't now and hasn't been for a long while.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I'm only talking about the Constand case.

Cosby didn't drug her at all.
Constand asked for drugs, Cosby supplied some, Constand decided to take them.

That isn't drugging anyone without permission. Constand drugged herself.

I can understand why.
Tom

Ms Constand was misled about the dosage - one cannot rationally say she gave permission.

Again, what is the point of minimizing Mr. Cosby's behavior/actions?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It'd be the providing it to the women and then taking advantage of it that'd be the rape.

This sounds like you think women incapable of autonomy and consent.

You may disapprove of 'ludes, I understand that. I do as well. But if a competent adult decides to pop a couple...

Tom

Right. If two competent people each decide to pop a 'lude, well, then que sera sera.

But that ain't what happened. There is actually zero disagreement about whether or not Cosby drugged the women without their knowledge and then raped them. Cosby was released due to a legal technicality.

Call it the cynic in me but I'd be surprised if there were not some money exchanged to smooth this release.

I selected this thread to restart the subject because the OP, from before the trial, raised the issue that the PA Supreme Court ultimately ruled on. Cosby's trial used inadmissible testimony. The court found correctly, and having enough money to pay enough lawyers helped Cosby out of this jam. It feels hollow, but one DA can't simply renege on the deal of another DA. That the DA, Trump Impeachment Defense Lawyer Bruce Castor, made such a deal in the beginning seems nuts, but it is what it is.

There are a number of suits against Cosby at the moment, so his legal issues are far from over.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ms Constand was misled about the dosage - one cannot rationally say she gave permission.

Again, what is the point of minimizing Mr. Cosby's behavior/actions?

What good is a thread about sexual assault without some good ole fashioned rape victim blame game?

 

[TomC]

I'm only talking about the Constand case.

Cosby didn't drug her at all.
Constand asked for drugs, Cosby supplied some, Constand decided to take them.

That isn't drugging anyone without permission. Constand drugged herself.

I can understand why.
Tom

Ms Constand was misled about the dosage - one cannot rationally say she gave permission.

Again, what is the point of minimizing Mr. Cosby's behavior/actions?

Honesty? Truth? Personal responsibility? Empowering women?

If you're claiming that women can't take responsibility for their decisions, then why do you think that they should have the freedom to make them?
Tom

 

[Gospel]

It's not 'drugging yourself' if you are misled as to the strength and nature of the pills you ingest.

I just don't share your attachment to victimhood.

If you ask for drugs that's on you to determine if you want to take them.
I still see the basic argument here as "She's a woman. Of course she can't take responsibility for her decisions."

I don't buy that. Might have been a reasonable assumption a century ago, but it isn't now and hasn't been for a long while.
Tom

Ok so now I think you're missing the part where no one here claimed all women are victims. You seem to be arguing with someone not on this messageboard or just using women as a shield for your bullshit argument.

 

[TomC]

It's not 'drugging yourself' if you are misled as to the strength and nature of the pills you ingest.

I just don't share your attachment to victimhood.

If you ask for drugs that's on you to determine if you want to take them.
I still see the basic argument here as "She's a woman. Of course she can't take responsibility for her decisions."

I don't buy that. Might have been a reasonable assumption a century ago, but it isn't now and hasn't been for a long while.
Tom

Ok so now I think you're missing the part where no one here claimed all women are victims. You seem to be arguing with someone not on this messageboard or just using women as a shield for your bullshit argument.

I was trying to talk about this one case. Other posters started bringing up other cases.

Tom

 

[Toni]

It's not 'drugging yourself' if you are misled as to the strength and nature of the pills you ingest.

I just don't share your attachment to victimhood.

If you ask for drugs that's on you to determine if you want to take them.
I still see the basic argument here as "She's a woman. Of course she can't take responsibility for her decisions."

I don't buy that. Might have been a reasonable assumption a century ago, but it isn't now and hasn't been for a long while.
Tom

She didn't 'ask for drugs.' She was nervous. Cosby offered her something to help her relax. He gave her something that rendered her unable to defend herself.

Again, it's just like asking for a drink and getting one laced with ruffies. You asked for a drink. YOu didn't ask to be rendered unable to defend yourself. You didn't ask to be raped. You didn't even ask for or agree to sex.

Yeah, you do remind me of guys I knew back in the day, who felt that if a girl was drunk/drugged, then consent wasn't really an issue. At all.

 

[Toni]

Ok so now I think you're missing the part where no one here claimed all women are victims. You seem to be arguing with someone not on this messageboard or just using women as a shield for your bullshit argument.

I was trying to talk about this one case. Other posters started bringing up other cases.

Tom

But you're not. You're saying that accepting a pill to calm your nerves is the same thing as agreeing to be penetrated.

Women who want sex do not need to take drugs or get drunk to relax themselves enough to do it.

 

[Toni]

I'm only talking about the Constand case.

Cosby didn't drug her at all.
Constand asked for drugs, Cosby supplied some, Constand decided to take them.

That isn't drugging anyone without permission. Constand drugged herself.

I can understand why.
Tom

Ms Constand was misled about the dosage - one cannot rationally say she gave permission.

Again, what is the point of minimizing Mr. Cosby's behavior/actions?

Honesty? Truth? Personal responsibility? Empowering women?

If you're claiming that women can't take responsibility for their decisions, then why do you think that they should have the freedom to make them?
Tom

Nope. You're making exactly the same claim as all of those racists that one single drop of African blood makes you black: One drop of alcohol, one pill whose dosage was withheld from you is the same thing as consenting to penetration. If you're a woman. I doubt you'd feel the same if you woke up on the wrong end of that arrangement, with you being the one who was drugged.