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Mar-a-Largo raided by FBI?

Jimmy Higgins

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I have an idea for some sarcastic replies but fear the sarcasm deficient will take it seriously.
 

ZiprHead

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Not good for Trump. Boo hoo...

Federal prosecutors examining Donald Trump’s unauthorized retention of highly sensitive government documents at his Mar-a-Lago property will obtain testimony from top adviser Kash Patel after granting him limited immunity from prosecution, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

The immunity – a powerful tool that forces witnesses to testify on the promise that they will not be prosecuted for their statements or information derived from their statements – takes effect on 2 November and signals the importance of his testimony to the criminal investigation.

The justice department’s interest with Patel centers on his claims that the documents found at Mar-a-Lago were declassified, how the documents came to end up at the property, and how Trump’s aides and lawyers responded to requests for their return, the sources said.

The status of the documents is important because if prosecutors can prove that those seized by the FBI in August were not declassified, it could strengthen a potential obstruction case contending that Trump used the claims as an excuse for why he did not return records that had been subpoenaed.
 

ZiprHead

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The former US president kept in the desk drawer of his office at the Mar-a-Lago property one document marked “secret” and one marked “confidential” alongside three communications from a book author, a religious leader and a pollster, dated after he departed the White House.

The mixed records could amount to evidence that Trump wilfully retained documents marked classified when he was no longer president as the justice department investigates unauthorised possession of national security materials, concealment of government records, and obstruction.
 

Loren Pechtel

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The former US president kept in the desk drawer of his office at the Mar-a-Lago property one document marked “secret” and one marked “confidential” alongside three communications from a book author, a religious leader and a pollster, dated after he departed the White House.

The mixed records could amount to evidence that Trump wilfully retained documents marked classified when he was no longer president as the justice department investigates unauthorised possession of national security materials, concealment of government records, and obstruction.
Why isn't this guy in Leavenworth?
 

blastula

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Judge Cannon has been thrown the hell out of court.



The order is brutal.

In considering these arguments, we are faced with a choice: apply our usual test; drastically expand the availability of equitable jurisdiction for every subject of a search warrant; or carve out an unprecedented exception in our law for former presidents. We choose the first option. So the case must be dismissed.

😲 😃
 
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Gun Nut

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Judge Cannon’s ruling was to buy Trump time to delay the DOJ investigation. It worked.
not really... not much, at least... it blocked the examination of like 200 out of 10,000 pages (or documents)... they were trucking on with 99% of the case this whole time, as I understand it. Yes, it did cause some degree of delay, but not what he wanted (which was for it to last beyond 2024 campaign timeframe)
 

Copernicus

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Judge Cannon’s ruling was to buy Trump time to delay the DOJ investigation. It worked.
not really... not much, at least... it blocked the examination of like 200 out of 10,000 pages (or documents)... they were trucking on with 99% of the case this whole time, as I understand it. Yes, it did cause some degree of delay, but not what he wanted (which was for it to last beyond 2024 campaign timeframe)

What all of these Republican-controlled courts did was to delay the matter beyond the November election. That aided the party in the short term, and Trump got a little more breathing space to muddy the waters and get the story out of the news cycle. The collapse of Cannon's obstructionism was a big deal to Democrats, but not so much to the rest of the public, which has a notoriously short attention span. Trump himself should be brought up on sedition charges, but that's never going to happen. Maybe obstruction of justice and mishandling of classified information. The election has been over for a while, and I don't see Garland rushing to indict him on the obvious charges of mishandling classified information and obstruction of justice. Maybe he's still hoping that the Trump era will just fade into a bad memory. We'll see if Garland's special prosecutor really has the stomach for it.
 

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Judge Cannon’s ruling was to buy Trump time to delay the DOJ investigation. It worked.
not really... not much, at least... it blocked the examination of like 200 out of 10,000 pages (or documents)... they were trucking on with 99% of the case this whole time, as I understand it. Yes, it did cause some degree of delay, but not what he wanted (which was for it to last beyond 2024 campaign timeframe)

...We'll see if Garland's special prosecutor really has the stomach for it.
Yup... that is what it comes down to at this point...
 

Jimmy Higgins

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article said:
Former president Donald Trump’s political action committee is paying legal bills for some key witnesses involved in the Justice Department investigation into whether Trump mishandled classified documents, obstructed the investigation or destroyed government records, according to people familiar with the matter.

The witnesses include Kash Patel, who has testified in front of the grand jury and is key to Trump’s defense, along with Walt Nauta, a potentially critical prosecution witness, according to these people, who like others interviewed spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing criminal probe. Nauta, a Trump valet, has told FBI agents he was instructed by the former president to move boxes at Mar-a-Lago, even as government investigators were trying to recover classified documents at that private club and residence, according to people familiar with the matter.

article said:
Both Patel and Nauta are represented by Brand Woodward Law, which according to public records has been paid more than $120,000 by Trump’s Save America PAC. Stan Brand, the top lawyer at the firm, said there is nothing improper about the PAC paying legal bills for witnesses in the investigation. Another lawyer not involved in the case, however, said it could encourage witnesses to not cooperate.

link

How is this even remotely legal?
 

crazyfingers

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More searches are happening at Trump properties. They are finding more classified docs.
Source? Not questioning you, I just want to enjoy the details :)


Trump's own lawyers have hired a search team. I have not read the full story yet.

ETA in NYT, apparently a federal judge ordered Trump's legal team to hire the search.

 

Cheerful Charlie

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More classified documents found in a Florida storage unit.

The stunning revelation of more classified documents being found, even after a Trump attorney attested in June they had been told by the ex-president there were no more classified documents, comes after Trump's attorneys hired a third party to search four of his properties for classified documents.
The Washington Post, which first reported on the additional classified documents, adds, "emails show that GSA [the federal General Services Administration] and Trump staffers worked together to arrange to ship several pallets of boxes and other items weighing more than 3,000 pounds from Northern Virginia to the Florida storage unit in September 2021."

 

starwater

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More searches are happening at Trump properties. They are finding more classified docs.
Source? Not questioning you, I just want to enjoy the details :)
Yes the I read it on NYT first - which has a pay wall. Love to see the implosion finally happening for the orange wonder. Popcorn worthy :eating_popcorn:
 

Shadowy Man

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More classified documents found in a Florida storage unit.

The stunning revelation of more classified documents being found, even after a Trump attorney attested in June they had been told by the ex-president there were no more classified documents, comes after Trump's attorneys hired a third party to search four of his properties for classified documents.
The Washington Post, which first reported on the additional classified documents, adds, "emails show that GSA [the federal General Services Administration] and Trump staffers worked together to arrange to ship several pallets of boxes and other items weighing more than 3,000 pounds from Northern Virginia to the Florida storage unit in September 2021."

Don’t suppose that arrest warrant will be coming out anytime soon… ho hum.
 

ZiprHead

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A US federal judge in Florida who appointed the special master for former President Donald Trump just tossed his lawsuit against the FBI's raid of his Mar-a-Lago estate.

Judge Aileen Cannon wrote in a Monday one-page order that she was dismissing the case because of a "lack of jurisdiction."

The ruling comes after a three-judge federal appeals court on December 1 wrote a scathing opinion overturning Cannon's initial decision to side with Trump and grant him a special master to review documents taken in the FBI's search. Less than week later, a federal appeals court in Atlanta formally ended the review.

Trump's team had the option to appeal the decision to the Supreme Court, but didn't do so.
 

ZiprHead

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After having watched Ari Melber's The Beat today on MSNBC, I don't believe there will ever be charges laid against Trump himself.

I will be glad to be proven wrong.
 

TSwizzle

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Seems Brandon has some classified he shouldn’t have;


The ten files were found in early November, by Biden's lawyers, and handed over. The Justice Department has now opened an investigation, which The New York Times said could lead to a special counsel being appointed - as has happened in the case of Donald Trump and the hundreds of documents he kept at Mar-a-Lago.

Daily Mail
 

Oleg

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Seems Brandon has some classified he shouldn’t have;


The ten files were found in early November, by Biden's lawyers, and handed over. The Justice Department has now opened an investigation, which The New York Times said could lead to a special counsel being appointed - as has happened in the case of Donald Trump and the hundreds of documents he kept at Mar-a-Lago.

Daily Mail
The deep state really wants Newsom vs. DeSantis, 2024.
 

Copernicus

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Seems Brandon has some classified he shouldn’t have;


The ten files were found in early November, by Biden's lawyers, and handed over. The Justice Department has now opened an investigation, which The New York Times said could lead to a special counsel being appointed - as has happened in the case of Donald Trump and the hundreds of documents he kept at Mar-a-Lago.

Daily Mail
The deep state really wants Newsom vs. DeSantis, 2024.

Dream on, right wing comrades! Trump's problem was that he didn't just keep the files. He did not cooperate and willingly turn them over when asked and then demanded. The Biden team cooperated fully in the investigation without requiring the government to raid and confiscate the documents from unsecured locations in Trump's Florida vacation home. Biden had not transported the documents to his home when he moved out of the White House. However, if you want to turn this into a whopping big whataboutism, by all means go for it. It will be very helpful to the public to revisit exactly how Trump behaved when those documents were discovered in his home and office in unsecured locations and then insisted that they belonged to him and should be returned to him. Biden is not asserting ownership over these documents and claiming that the government had no right to them. Also, it will be interesting to see whether any of them were marked "Top Secret" and "SCI", meaning that they could not be casually removed from a SCIF.
 

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10 docs locked in a forgotten closet and total cooperation with investigation... versus 160 docs in boxes hidden, moved repeatedly to evade discovery, lies to investigators and a total lack of any semblance of cooperation.... along with very clear indicators of malicious intent with the docs...
BUT... Both sides. right?
 

TSwizzle

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Brandon when it was discovered Trump had classified documents.

Brandon said:
How that could possibly happen, how one anyone could be that irresponsible, and I thought what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods. By that, I mean, names of people helped or et cetera. It's just totally irresponsible"

It just goes to show, it could happen to anyone.
 

Copernicus

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Brandon when it was discovered Trump had classified documents.

Brandon said:
How that could possibly happen, how one anyone could be that irresponsible, and I thought what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods. By that, I mean, names of people helped or et cetera. It's just totally irresponsible"

It just goes to show, it could happen to anyone.

Rubbish. It's one thing to screw up. It's another to cover up. What Trump did was no accident.

There are clear distinctions between Trump and Biden’s two cases

 

blastula

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Brandon when it was discovered Trump had classified documents.

Brandon said:
How that could possibly happen, how one anyone could be that irresponsible, and I thought what data was in there that may compromise sources and methods. By that, I mean, names of people helped or et cetera. It's just totally irresponsible"

It just goes to show, it could happen to anyone.

You think it's the same thing?

Brandon isn't the only one who's losing it.
 

TSwizzle

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Brandon refuses to answer questions about the classified documents;

President Joe Biden, for the second day in a row, dodged questions about the classified documents found at his think tank in Washington DC, as a new report claims the files contained information on Ukraine, Iran and the United Kingdom. "Mr President, did you mishandle classified documents?' a member of the press corps shouted at him. He merely smiled and stayed silent as White House staff escorted journalists from the room.

Daily Mail

I think Brandon needs to explain this.
 

Rhea

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What kind of thing do you expect him to say?
What do you think he should say?


So far the reporting I’m hearing is, “no he didn’t mishandle it. It wasn’t mixed with a bunch of other stuff, it was locked, and when it was discovered it was immediately returned through the proper channels.”
 

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Brandon isn't the only one who's losing it.
Hey, the radical right and their rubes have been losing it since 11/4/2020. They still haven’t heard that TRUMP KNEW HE LOST. He has been playing them for fools ever since, and they’ve been fully compliant drooling idiots just to make him happy.
 

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Let's keep the double standards rolling.


Oh for crying out loud. Pay attention here: No one had to beg Biden or his people to search for classified documents. When they found the first batch, they did the right thing and reported it then turned them over. Now they are voluntarily looking for any other documents without being forced into it.

As for these documents being kept outside a secure storage to begin with - yes, something needs to be done to prevent this from happening. I agree with that. Apparently our security is less than stellar when it comes to tracking these classified documents. I suspect, if investigated, it would be found that this has been going on for decades now.

Ruth
 

Oleg

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Let's keep the double standards rolling.

When Trump does it, "How could that possibly happen, how could anyone be that irresponsible?" When Brandon does it. . . . .
Brandon has TS/SCI documents, then lied about it, then refused to cooperate with law enforcement? Is that what happened?
Biden was not president when he absconded with the documents, he was V.P. No authority to declassify. Beyond gross negliegnce. No one is above the law, Patooka. Or, at least that's what Dems jokingly say to us.
 

Elixir

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Who owns the property where Brandon's (presumably SCI) documents were hidden since he was VP?

More searches are happening at Trump properties. They are finding more classified docs.

OH? Well, HUNTER'S LAPTOP!
 

Patooka

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Biden was not president when he absconded with the documents, he was V.P. No authority to declassify. Beyond gross negliegnce. No one is above the law, Patooka. Or, at least that's what Dems jokingly say to us
None of which I disagree with, or even a point I made so good strawman there. So, to spell out again.

1) Were the documents TS/SCI?

2) Did the FBI have to obtain a warrant to seize such documents from Biden or did he surrender them voluntarily?

3) Did Biden's lawyers then issue a statement that was patently false claiming that all documents were surrendered?

4) Did Biden casually keep these documents lying about? Like for example in a desk drawer with his passports or a shed by the pool or did he keep them securely?

I want to be very clear about this Oleg, as you seem confused. Biden deserves criticism for his actions. But to say this is comparable to what Trump did is either dishonest or moronic.
 

Oleg

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I want to be very clear about this Oleg, as you seem confused. Biden deserves criticism for his actions. But to say this is comparable to what Trump did is either dishonest or moronic.
Right. Trump was president with authority to declassify. Biden wasn't.
 
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