Men - Have you felt a woman's fear?

[J842P]

No, but I am short and unassuming.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I've known real fear before, having been robbed at gunpoint, and on another occasion having been in a fight for my life. I don't think it's the same as the wariness that a woman carries with her ... but I do keep track of my surroundings and assess strangers who might come close enough to be harmful if they desire.

I don't think I've given any woman the fear that the OP is talking about, but I guess they're the ones who could answer that best. I certainly exercise civility and consideration with folks ... but I imagine some women might think of that as an approach of sorts too? I don't know.

 

[bigfield]

One time a lady I knew very well was wearing a very pretty necklace. I complimented the necklace and said it was very pretty and she gasped for air when I told her. The only thing I could think of is she thought I was checking out her rack, but she was covered from the neck down and do not really show any form. Her necklace was pretty with its medallion and all.

I find it's best to just ignore women in public. Instead of smiling and nodding in passing in a silent "good morning", I turn away and just walk past them like they weren't there.

A win-win.

If possible, request to work remotely from your home computer, and get your groceries home delivered, so that people don't have to encounter you at all.

It's for the best.

 

[skepticalbip]

Thread: Men - Have you felt a woman's fear?

I tried to once... but she said, "no".

 

[Toni]

OK, so some of you are offended when women...cover themselves up or seem uncomfortable with you on an elevator or on a street or whatever.

Imagine being the woman. She's not judged as dangerous because of her sex. She's judged as prey--at least by the wrong kind of guy.
And it's impossible to know who is the 'wrong kind of guy.' Not by looking.

Some guys will see her as prey.

Prey.

Wrap your heads around that a bit. Or try to.

You have no idea what it is like to think you have no reason to not trust, or to fear someone--and then to find out you are very wrong.

Once, one of my friends in college had a guy friend who clearly wanted more. She clearly was uninterested but for whatever reason, she wasn't able to convince him that there was zero chance but yes, she'd like to be study buddies. She used to ask me to drop by her room and just hang out there if he was coming by so he wouldn't get the idea that there was any....romantic potential. So, sure, I'd grab a book and at some pre-determined time remind her we had this thing or dinner in the cafe or whatever.

He didn't like that at all. At. All. Once, when we were in some part of the dorm where my friend was not, actually on a guys' floor, he implied(again) quite heavily that I had my own romantic/sexual intentions towards my friend which was laughable. In fact, I laughed.

And then he wrapped his bicycle chain around my throat and pulled tight. I should mention that he weighed something north of 220 and I weighed south of 100. I laughed in his face and he pulled the chain tighter. Fortunately a couple of guys were standing there, enjoying me laughing at how ridiculous this guy was being, accusing me of going after 'his' girl who was clearly, clearly uninterested. Anyway, I was laughing and the other guys got alarmed enough to make him stop. I don't think he would have on his own. Unless I had managed to get a well placed kick in, which I hadn't even thought of at the time.

There was another guy in my dorm who was creepy enough that if he got on the elevator with me, I got off immediately, even if it meant climbing 11 floors with my laundry to avoid him. Later, it became clear to me through stuff he did (like try to light my drunk friend on fire with his lighter) that he was really as creepy as I thought.

So while I absolutely believe that all of you guys are perfectly fine human beings who would never, ever harm or think of harming a woman, for a woman who makes a mistake of trusting the wrong person or not putting enough distance between her and a creep--the consequences can be rather dire.

For most of you, the worst thing that will happen is that some woman will unjustly think you might potentially mean her harm. I honestly can understand why that would hurt your feelings and make you feel bad.

For women: we have to consider whether we will be groped, beaten, raped, robbed, kidnapped, killed. Oh, sure most of us only have to endure a bit of groping and some attempts at sexual assault but how many of you would actually like being backed into a corner and groped by some guy twice your size? Probably not a bit more than I would. Or less, frankly.

 

[J842P]

Imagine being the woman. She's not judged as dangerous because of her sex. She's judged as prey--at least by the wrong kind of guy.
And it's impossible to know who is the 'wrong kind of guy.' Not by looking.

Some guys will see her as prey.

Prey.

Wrap your heads around that a bit. Or try to.

You have no idea what it is like to think you have no reason to not trust, or to fear someone--and then to find out you are very wrong.

It's amazing to me that you think men have no consciousness of the potential danger of other men. It's as if you've never even tried to put yourself in the shoes of a typical male human being. Because apparently you seem to think men go through life without even considering the chance of being the victim of the violent tendencies of predator males.

The truth is that males are much more likely to be the victims of aggravated assault and murder. Every male knows and understands the violent potential of other males. It is part and parcel of the male experience.

And of course men understand what you are talking about. In any given gathering that is large enough (especially if it includes alcohol), there is always at least a couple of assholes itching to start a fight over things like being bumped into, looking them in the eyes too long, or just being there breathing their air.

Or yes, thinking that you are going after "their girl".

The only difference is that the chances of other males intervening to stop the psycho are much, much lower if that psycho is victimizing another male.

 

[Toni]

Imagine being the woman. She's not judged as dangerous because of her sex. She's judged as prey--at least by the wrong kind of guy.
And it's impossible to know who is the 'wrong kind of guy.' Not by looking.

Some guys will see her as prey.

Prey.

Wrap your heads around that a bit. Or try to.

You have no idea what it is like to think you have no reason to not trust, or to fear someone--and then to find out you are very wrong.

It's amazing to me that you think men have no consciousness of the potential danger of other men. It's as if you've never even tried to put yourself in the shoes of a typical male human being. Because apparently you seem to think men go through life without even considering the chance of being the victim of the violent tendencies of predator males.

The truth is that males are much more likely to be the victims of aggravated assault and murder. Every male knows and understands the violent potential of other males. It is part and parcel of the male experience.

And of course men understand what you are talking about. In any given gathering that is large enough (especially if it includes alcohol), there is always at least a couple of assholes itching to start a fight over things like being bumped into, looking them in the eyes too long, or just being there breathing their air.

Or yes, thinking that you are going after "their girl".

The only difference is that the chances of other males intervening to stop the psycho are much, much lower if that psycho is victimizing another male.

Oh, I'm aware. I am quite familiar with crime statistics.

Three sets of family members were victims of armed home invasions. Two sets were farmers. All three sets included older women and older men. In one set, the robbery was to steal my uncle's hunting guns. They shot at him--and missed, fortunately. In the other, a different uncle was hit on the side of the head with a pistol. My grandmother was present as was my grandfather. My inlaws were also victims of an armed home invasion that eventually was resolved by multiple SWAT teams. In every case, a woman was part of the victim group. My mother in law had a knife held at her throat for some hours. She weighed...about 85 lbs and used a walker.

My son's girlfriend fended off a would be car jacker.

I actually stopped someone from physically assaulting my then boyfriend/now husband.

Someone once tried to kill me, and was fortunately foiled by the quick thinking of another person who prevented my fall.

I've stopped a number of physical and sexual assaults, actually.

In no cases were the perpetrators of these assaults female.

I am unaware of any time any man has been robbed, beaten or assaulted when he was blamed for not being careful about where he walked, how much he drank, what he wore, etc.

I'm sorry if it offends you that women sometimes do not hide their caution or fear around men. How terrible for you.

 

[bigfield]

This is why women make excellent police officers: they assume all men are dangerous, not just black guys.

 

[ruby sparks]

I am unaware of any time any man has been robbed, beaten or assaulted when he was blamed for not being careful about where he walked, how much he drank, what he wore, etc.

Victim blaming is widespread. It can affect all types of victim of any crime (and non-crime) though extents differ. It can affect people who are poor, or deemed foolish, it can affect blacks, anyone in prison ('he or she deserves whatever they get') and anyone who is raped, including men. It can manifest for crimes like muggings, stabbings etc. Crime prevention guidelines often contain advice about where and when to walk or what to wear or not wear, and indeed about not getting so drunk that you end up increasing your risks (eg falling asleep on a train and getting robbed or ending up in the wrong part of town).

Of course, victim-blaming of women is one significantly problematic type, especially in relation to rape and sexual assault.

 

[Toni]

This is why women make excellent police officers: they assume all men are dangerous, not just black guys.

Well, it helps when one is conditioned to be afraid of being mugged or raped, both of which one will be blamed for. One more than the other.

Glad to know you are keeping yourself protected against the black guys, bigfield.

And truly, I am very sorry that some men's feelings are hurt because women seem cautious and cover up their breasts more or cross the street or seem uncomfortable alone in elevators with men during a rash of sexual assaults in elevators.

That must be terrible. It is certainly as bad as being mugged or sexually assaulted. Given that only about a third of us are ever sexually assaulted and only a small percentage of those cases ever make it to court, and that we don't even bother reporting about half of the cases to anyone at all, then it is definitely not a real problem for women. And definitely at least as bad as feeling upset that some woman won't display as much of her breasts or crosses the street or is nervous in an elevator. And especially horrible for good white men to be lumped in with all those bad violent black and brown men.

What can I say? Women are monsters.

 

[James Brown]

And truly, I am very sorry that some men's feelings are hurt because women...cross the street...

I didn't say that my feelings were hurt because a women crossed a street to avoid being with 25 yards of me. I said I felt sorry for her, sorry that she would have to live with such fear of a harmless stranger.

Twizzle said much the same thing. The OP's question was, "Have you felt a woman's fear?" It was not, "Have you felt a woman's fear and then got your feelings hurt because of it?"

 

[Toni]

And truly, I am very sorry that some men's feelings are hurt because women...cross the street...

I didn't say that my feelings were hurt because a women crossed a street to avoid being with 25 yards of me. I said I felt sorry for her, sorry that she would have to live with such fear of a harmless stranger.

Twizzle said much the same thing. The OP's question was, "Have you felt a woman's fear?" It was not, "Have you felt a woman's fear and then got your feelings hurt because of it?"

I truly appreciate the empathy that you and Twizzle showed—that you could recognize the fear or caution (I would have said that women were showing caution) and the reasons for it and that the caution/fear was not directed at you personally but was simply: caution or fear of finding oneself at the mercy of someone larger and stronger who might mean you harm and that she was responding to her conditioning rather than you.

 

[steve_bank]

No, but I know fear. In then 70s I lived in rough neighborhoods. Drugs and prostitution.

I leaned to walk around what append to be threatening situations.


Today if I get on an elevator I will not turn my back on someone. When I walk down the street I am aware of what is going on around me.

Does that count? I suppose if you are younger white and grew up in the burbs bubble you may not know what fear is.

 

[WAB]

I have felt a woman's fear twice.

Once, when I was being trained for a job, the woman who was training me seemed to be uneasy about getting into an elevator with me. (Funny side-note: She and I eventually hooked up one time, in 2009 but it was a disaster. My one and only one-off - two nervous, clumsy ships in the night.)

Another time was when I was staying in a motel in upstate NY and accidentally locked my door with the key in the room. I went to the front desk to ask for help, and the woman was visibly uneasy when I followed her back and let her open the door. She got away in a hurry. Later on I realized that I probably should have offered to wait at the desk until she returned.

When I started to shave my head, I noticed more trepidation from people in general, though from men more than women.

 

[Underseer]

1 in 5 women have experienced some form of sexual assault in their lives. That means that pretty much every woman has either experienced such things directly, or knows someone who has. I imagine women feel it far more often than we men are aware of it.

In that there are at least 1 in 5 women that probably experience it quite frequently in public, but probably a very low percentage of men who are aware of a woman being fearful of us in a specific incidence. I'll be honest, I can't think of a single time that I was aware of a woman being fearful of me in that way in public, but that must have happened many times given the statistics.

 

[WAB]

1 in 5 women have experienced some form of sexual assault in their lives. That means that pretty much every woman has either experienced such things directly, or knows someone who has. I imagine women feel it far more often than we men are aware of it.

In that there are at least 1 in 5 women that probably experience it quite frequently in public, but probably a very low percentage of men who are aware of a woman being fearful of us in a specific incidence. I'll be honest, I can't think of a single time that I was aware of a woman being fearful of me in that way in public, but that must have happened many times given the statistics.

Yeah, and drummers are kind of scary to begin with.