Michael Brown Shooting and Aftermath

[laughing dog]

One of those shitty unqualified officer is too many. And, once one is discovered, he/she ought to be quickly either bounced or kept off duty until he/she is sufficiently retrained.

So do you think sufficient policies/criteria/training should be implemented to ensure a high probability of zero such members slipping through the cracks?

Yes.

You don't think that any trade-off is too large to achieve zero such members?

I would prefer none to slip through the cracks. But when someone "shitty" appears, I think that person should be taken off duty quickly either forever or until he/she can show he/she deserves to be re-instated instead of seeing some of the absurd kneejerk and nasty defense of such actions.

 

[RavenSky]

A point I need to bring up : why the need to shoot to kill rather than shooting to disable? In this situation, it makes NO doubt that Brown was unarmed as he was running away. If Officer Wilson's intention was to apprehend Brown as he was running away, why 6 shots at least one of them being confirmed at this point as being lethal?

Are we to settle for any LEO empowering himself to act as a Judge or Jury to deliver what is the equivalent of a death sentence?

This question hangs in my mind in all of these types of cases. Why don't cops utilize non-lethal projectile weapons? Getting hit in the back with a high-velocity rubber bullet (even a paintball!) hurts like hell, and 6 of those would have knocked him flat.

Or how about let him go altogether? At that point the only thing the cop knew was that the guys were walking in the street. Why not let them go?

Even a taser would have been better in this situation rather than 6 bullets.

Of course, as we know, they save tazers for 6-year olds

 

[RavenSky]

you're reaching
And its sad.

You have a dead body, with six bullets, and a probability that the victim may have been on his knees at least for some of those shots.

But don't give up

You may be able to convict the dead guy of something yet

6 bullets from the front.

In other words he was not running away when the cop fired.

I don't mind some of the shots being while he was on his knees--the human brain/body is capable of firing additional shots considerably faster than the brain is capable of deciding the target is no longer a threat. Thus shots being fired as the target goes down is likely.

You don't mind? How lovely given that it was those last shots to Michael Brown's head that killed him. I'm sure his parents will be relived to know you don't mind.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

6 bullets from the front.

In other words he was not running away when the cop fired.

I don't mind some of the shots being while he was on his knees--the human brain/body is capable of firing additional shots considerably faster than the brain is capable of deciding the target is no longer a threat. Thus shots being fired as the target goes down is likely.

You don't mind? How lovely given that it was those last shots to Michael Brown's head that killed him. I'm sure his parents will be relived to know you don't mind.

Pretty sure that's not what he meant.

 

[Sabine Grant]

You don't mind? How lovely given that it was those last shots to Michael Brown's head that killed him. I'm sure his parents will be relived to know you don't mind.

Pretty sure that's not what he meant.

It is the appearance of being so detached from the fact those last 2 shots resulted in the termination of a human being. It is quite easy to discuss it in terms of "I do not mind" when one is in no way related to the dead party. Some of who are equally not related to the dead party will avoid the " I don't mind " attitude when discussing the circumstances of a death. I hope that helped.

 

[RavenSky]

Love love love John Oliver. That clip is a "must watch"

Love the photo with the "fuck the police" on the mailbox, too. Had seen the cropped version, but the full photo is so much more a perfect reflection.

Loved loved loved John's suggestion at the very end too.

 

[RavenSky]

Whoa there: six shots that hit him from the front. Or are we to assume that the officer was such a crack shot that he hit the exact intended target with every shot? Explain again why no disabling shot to the leg by such a skilled marksman.

So the cops have seeker bullets that when they miss turn around and hit the target from the other direction???

Since the cop isn't firing torpedoes we can conclude that the shots came from the direction they hit him. He was facing the cop when he was shot.

We have a bunch of witnesses that say he was running away--since that's not consistent with the facts they're useless. We have a couple that say he charged the cop when challenged--and supposedly one has video showing this. (I have not seen the supposed video.)

Conclusion: He was charging the cop. The altercation in the car that caused a round to be fired certainly shows him a threat. Justified shoot.

Oh bull-fucking-shit on so many levels. EVERY other witness states that Michael Brown turned and was surrendering, which is fully consistent with being shot six fucking times to his front.

Your "conclusion" is nothing more than your preconceived biased bullshit.

 

[RavenSky]

Other than his dragging religion and prayer into the situation, I feel sorry for Captain Ron Johnson. He has been made the face of the police force while the idiot Governor and others were continuing to pursue their nonsense with tear gas and curfews. That must have been so frustrating to him, especially when they turned him into an inadvertent liar.

 

[RavenSky]

"Took a turn for the tense" as Rachel Maddow put it.

Still watching this situation live. Earlier tonight they said there would be no curfew. Now (about an hour ago) they started ordering everyone to disperse. What I find particularly interesting is that they are separating the media from the protestors.

12:02 EST - police shooting smoke bombs and flash grenades again.

12:06 EST - police shooting tear gas again, LRad playing the screeching sounds again.

This is so fucked up.

And what the hell is this order that the protestors have to keep walking? This sounds to me like just more of the Ferguson police trying to force confrontations by making ridiculous restrictions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He was stopped for Jaywalking?!? How in the fuck does someone die in such circumstances?

Attacking the police officer and going for his gun usually does the trick.

Exactly. There's no such thing as an unarmed struggle with an officer because there's always the officer's gun there.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Speaking of the autopsy report conducted by Boden : there is NO conclusion that the 2 shots to Brown's head support any notion that he "was charging the officer". In fact several analysts are questioning how a 6 feet 3 tall man could have wounds of such nature to his head while still in a standing up position. Considering that both shots were certainly not shot by a sniper on the top of a building. The entry of the bullets demonstrating shots fired as the target had to be almost parallel to the ground. That would support the theory that Brown was either collapsing or already on the ground when the fatal shot was fired.

As I said before, that very well could be. He might have been going down from another hit. A competent shooter can easily fire 3 rounds/second and 4/second isn't uncommon. You can't evaluate whether another shot is needed in anything like that little time.

Note, also, that standard procedure is to fire for the center of mass. The head shots went high--or was he falling into where the cop was aiming?

Further...who are those alleged EYEwitnesses who claim that Brown was "charging the officer"? Surely, this Lady relating what Officer Wilson told her is not being confused for an eye witness or is she?

This afternoon I heard some eyewitness saying he was charging. It was on Faux Noise, no details were provided. (I wasn't the one in control of the TV set, I don't set TVs to Faux.)

 

[RavenSky]

Amnesty International is now in Ferguson; apparently first time in the US

In an unusual move, the global rights organization Amnesty International has dispatched a delegation of observers and organizers to Ferguson, Mo., to provide direct support to community members and to observe the police response to protests. The 13-person delegation, which arrived late last week, was the first of its kind deployed by Amnesty within the United States, the organization said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...8/amnesty-international-has-come-to-ferguson/

 

[Mumbles]

I hired a lawyer to help me with dealing with my deceased father's estate. There's no way that I could have understood what the actual law says without him on my side. So...no. and that's a cut and dry, someone died in their own apartment case. So no, you are absolutely wrong.

So you were a direct participant in the proceedings, not just a witness to them.

No, I was not either a direct participant, nor a witness. I'm simply the heir.

Let's get this one straight. I've heard the phrase "liers need lawyers." This is wrong. Anyone dealing with the legal system should get a lawyer. This is literally doctorate-level knowledge.

 

[Sabine Grant]

So you were a direct participant in the proceedings, not just a witness to them.

No, I was not either a direct participant, nor a witness. I'm simply the heir.

Let's get this one straight. I've heard the phrase "liers need lawyers." This is wrong. Anyone dealing with the legal system should get a lawyer. This is literally doctorate-level knowledge.

I agree 100%.

 

[RavenSky]

Uh oh, it looks like the store that Michael Brown shoplifted from must be lying liars who lie, too... otherwise why would they hire a lawyer! [/sarcasm]

FERGUSON, Mo. — The attorney for a convenience store where a Missouri teenager allegedly stole cigars before being shot by police says a customer, not store workers, called police.

http://www.news-journal.com/news/na...cle_0e1605eb-0575-58b3-b020-d1ee121ef92d.html

So store employees didn't call the police, and police had to get a court order to get the video tape. Huh and sheesh to that.

 

[RavenSky]

When the Ferguson police department released the name of Darren Wilson, they also chose to release video footage which they claimed was of Michael Brown robbing a convenience store for some cigars.

The problem is, the video shows Michael Brown at the register, paying for the cigars.

http://pullingtotheleft.wordpress.c...ears-to-show-michael-brown-paying-for-cigars/

???

The originating website, addictinginfo, is down this morning. Other websites (DailyKos among others) appear to have pulled the video. Anyone hear anything about this?

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Personally, I don't see any money exchanging hands, but neither do I see a "strong-armed robbery". From this angle it looks like (at worst) he handed most of the cigars back then picked up several from the floor that he had dropped and left with those.

 

[Derec]

When the Ferguson police department released the name of Darren Wilson, they also chose to release video footage which they claimed was of Michael Brown robbing a convenience store for some cigars. The problem is, the video shows Michael Brown at the register, paying for the cigars.

Yeah, that BS claim has been making the rounds of some far left wing sites, like this blog "pullingtotheleft.wordpress.com" which doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Personally, I don't see any money exchanging hands, but neither do I see a "strong-armed robbery". From this angle it looks like (at worst) he handed most of the cigars back then picked up several from the floor that he had dropped and left with those.

The "strong-arm robbery" part came when Brown attacked the store owner. Missouri statute actually calls it "robbery in the second degree", a class B felony, and defines it as "a person commits the crime of robbery in the second degree when he forcibly steals property" which fits this case. There is no dollar amount limit here so it doesn't really matter if he stole the whole case or just a few individually wrapped cigarillos, what matters is that he used force to steal them.
By the way, first degree robbery (class A felony) would involve a serious injury or else use of some sort of weapon (or appearance of such).

 

[George S]

When the Ferguson police department released the name of Darren Wilson, they also chose to release video footage which they claimed was of Michael Brown robbing a convenience store for some cigars.

The problem is, the video shows Michael Brown at the register, paying for the cigars.

http://pullingtotheleft.wordpress.c...ears-to-show-michael-brown-paying-for-cigars/

???

The originating website, addictinginfo, is down this morning. Other websites (DailyKos among others) appear to have pulled the video. Anyone hear anything about this?

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maA1FUJqhew&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Personally, I don't see any money exchanging hands, but neither do I see a "strong-armed robbery". From this angle it looks like (at worst) he handed most of the cigars back then picked up several from the floor that he had dropped and left with those.

As I understand it the clerk did NOT call police. Rather a citizen reported it as a "strong-arm robbery."

The police now had reason to believe that a person fitting the description of a man they had just stopped and asked to get out of the street should be interviewed. As Mark Twain said, "It isn't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know that just ain't so."

The police knew they were looking for a "strong-arm robber." A mugger who takes people's wallets by force.

 

[Toni]

So you were a direct participant in the proceedings, not just a witness to them.

No, I was not either a direct participant, nor a witness. I'm simply the heir.

Let's get this one straight. I've heard the phrase "liers need lawyers." This is wrong. Anyone dealing with the legal system should get a lawyer. This is literally doctorate-level knowledge.

Derec's comment was particularly idiotic. Most people engage lawyers to set up their estate in the event of their death. Most of the survivors need the services of an attorney to make certain that the estate is handled in accordance with the law and with the wishes of the deceased.

I was present at the deaths of each of my parents. One could even stretch to say that I was a participant, having spent the days before each death in the hospital with each parent and even being part of the group who helped make decisions about treatment and care for each parent after they were no longer able to do so.

There were not lawyers involved.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

He was stopped for Jaywalking?!? How in the fuck does someone die in such circumstances?

Attacking the police officer and going for his gun usually does the trick.

Alright, so he is jaywalking, officer goes to him, the guy then attacks the officer and goes for his gun. The narrative is this simple and accurate?

Granted, this guy was a jaywalking and cigar stealing monster that makes Trayvon Martin look like Wayne Brady, so perhaps the narrative is that simple and accurate.

- - - Updated - - -

Attacking the police officer and going for his gun usually does the trick.

Exactly. There's no such thing as an unarmed struggle with an officer because there's always the officer's gun there.

Now that is quality spin!