More Trouble In Israel

[Derec]

Using a militant group as an excuse to murder indiscriminately in response is absolutely genocide. It's that whole indiscriminate part, see?

First of all, the killings are not indiscriminate. It is the 1000s of rockets of your Hamas that are indiscriminate. IDF killing a few hundred people, most of them Hamas combatants, during combat is neither "murder" nor "genocide" . IDF is very careful to minimize civilian casualties, and Hamas is exploiting that by embedding their rocket launchers etc. in civilian areas.




Furthermore, hundreds of the Hamas rockets landed short in the Gaza Strip and killed Palestinians. Of course, Hamas, the Squad and you are still blaming Israel for it.

 

[Derec]

Yeah, the problem with your narrative is that they didn't import "a population hostile to Western values and way of life".

BS.

They imported a population of people who loved the west and its values.

Not so. They liked the monetary benefits they and their large families could get in the West, but people like this do not love the West or its values.

And then the fuckwit racist cunts

Islam is not a race. It is a set of beliefs and practices.

in the UK spent several decades banging on about how foreign and vile they all were. And still those immigrants loved the UK and its values. But their children and grandchildren feel very differently. Because they've spent their entire lives being bullied by racist cunts.

Bullshit! The terrorist attacks like the one on London underground in 2007 happened because of fuckwit Islamist cunts who want to impose Islam onto Western societies. Islam divides the World into Dar al-Harb (House of War) and Dar al-Islam (House of Islam). They see themselves at war with any land not already subjugated to Islam.

The things you hold up as examples of a problem are not symptoms of immigration. They're symptoms of racism.

Again, Islam is not a race. And the creeping Islamization of Europe is very much a symptom of mass immigration. And it is changing Europe for the worse. Look at London, where Hezbollah and Islamic Jhad flags are being flown by all these anti-Semitic Muslim cunts.

An end to immigration, or even the repatriation of every immigrant, wouldn't change the situation.

To get out of a hole, first you must stop digging. Even if you are right and it is only 2nd and higher generation Muslims that are the problem, the new mass migrants that Europe is importing by the millions from places like Afghanistan will have children (average of five each) and grandchildren (average of 25 each).
And you are not even right. Many recent migrants have engaged in terrorism, for example the "asylum seeker" Anis Amri of Tunisia who murdered 12 and injured 56 at a Berlin Christmas market. It is not just children and grandchildren.

Of course, you've already ignored these facts repeatedly on these fora, so I doubt you will grasp them this time.

Disagreeing with your pro-mass Muslim migration stance is not the same as ignoring it.

But facts they surely are. I went to school with these British born Muslims whose children are now embracing the worst fanatics in their religion. And they're doing so because they have learned through bitter experience that everyone else hates them, regardless of what they do or don't do. They have nothing to lose.

Bullshit. People hate them because of what they do (terrorism, Sharia patrols, etc.) and what they demand ("Sharia for the UK" is a common slogan).

 

[Derec]

Anyone paying attention to the news realizes that Israel did not stay peaceful.

So, you think Israel should stay peaceful even when Hamas is shooting 1000s of rockets at its civilians?

 

[J842P]

The leaders on both sides are a bunch of cunts, and the only solution would be to move the entire nation state of Israel lock, stock, and barrel to the United States. Give them a big chunk of desert the same size as their current nation, taken from Nevada and Arizona, and maybe a bit of Eastern California.

Why should Israel be the one to move? It's the land of Israel, not Arabia.
How about moving so-called Palestinians to the Sinai desert or something. Since they call "Jerusalem" by the fake name "Al Quds", they can build a city by that name and even move the so-called Al Aqsa mosque there brick by brick.

Come on now, Derec. You know that Arab doesn't mean from Arabia.

The Arab Palestinians are the descendants of people who have been indigenous to that region since forever.

 

[Derec]

You'd make a good American Evangelical...so weird. "Al Quds" simply means "The Holy City" among other similar variants, such vulgar fakery...LOL.

I don't know about vulgar, but it is a very generic name. In any case, Muslim already have two holy cities in Arabia. Why do they want to take the city that is holiest in Judaism too?
Reminds me of Prophet Nathan rebuking King David in 2 Samuel 12.

How willing are you to give back all the European names on US mountains, lakes, rivers, et.al. back to the original Native American names?

Which "original names"? The Siberian-Americans are not a monolith or speaking one language. They waged wars amongst each other and territories shifted. Who is to say what the original name of something is?

They certainly held those names far longer than our White Fake names for them.

You can't say that. For example the Apache only came into the Southwest a couple of centuries before the Europeans. They are really Canadians, eh! So why are Apache Fake names so much better?

But somehow I expect you to carry a different POV on Mt. Denali (or fakery Mt. McKinley) and such... Am I right? Pray tell?

I am just wondering how much GM paid Obama to rename Mt. McKinley. Could have been worse, I guess, had Ford won. Although Mount F150 would go nicely against K2.

The Arabs/Muslims controlled the territory for most of the previous 1400 years, until a 100 years ago.

So they get to conquer shit but Jews are not allowed to take it back?

It is Muslim holy buildings on the Temple mount from the 1300+ years ago.

Muslims love to take over other faiths' holy sites and pretend they are their own. Same with Hagia Sofia in Constantinople (#freeAsiaMinor. Turks back to Turkmenistan!)

NOTE: I am not arguing that the Israeli Jews should leave.

Sounded to me like you are. Of course I hear this argument only about Americans or Israelis, never about Muslim conquerors. Or "Native" tribes warring against each other for that matter.

 

[Derec]

Come on now, Derec. You know that Arab doesn't mean from Arabia

According to Hamas leader Fathi Hamad, half of so-called Palestinians are Saudis while the other half are Egyptians. Yasser Arafat himself was an Egyptian, born in Cairo.

The Arab Palestinians are the descendants of people who have been indigenous to that region since forever.

Not true. Many migrated there during the Ottoman rule or after WWI, during the British Mandate period.

In fact, UNRWA rules to be considered a "Palestinian refugee" in perpetuity is to have an male-line ancestor who lived in what is now Israel between June 1946 and May 1948 - less than two years! "Since forever" that is definitely not!

Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of Palestine refugee males, including adopted children, are also eligible for registration.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I didn't know apartheid was a part of western style democracy...

Neither should be wholesale importing of a population hostile to Western values and way of life. UK for example imported millions of Muslims many of them Pakistanis, without much vetting. Result is Sharia patrols, burqa-clad women protesting in front of pubs calling for adoption of Sharia Law and prohibition of alcohol and now things like this.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/TimesCorbyn/status/1395092516534431745[/TWEET]

Yeah, the problem with your narrative is that they didn't import "a population hostile to Western values and way of life".

They imported a population of people who loved the west and its values. And then the fuckwit racist cunts in the UK spent several decades banging on about how foreign and vile they all were. And still those immigrants loved the UK and its values. But their children and grandchildren feel very differently. Because they've spent their entire lives being bullied by racist cunts.

The things you hold up as examples of a problem are not symptoms of immigration. They're symptoms of racism.

An end to immigration, or even the repatriation of every immigrant, wouldn't change the situation. The people you despise for failing to integrate into British society are not immigrants, they were born there - and typically so were their parents. Sending their grandparents back to Pakistan would achieve nothing. The only solution is an end to widespread racism.

Of course, you've already ignored these facts repeatedly on these fora, so I doubt you will grasp them this time. But facts they surely are. I went to school with these British born Muslims whose children are now embracing the worst fanatics in their religion. And they're doing so because they have learned through bitter experience that everyone else hates them, regardless of what they do or don't do. They have nothing to lose.

Totally agree with you. The vast majority of Arabs want the same life the westerners want: education, peace, respect, friendship with others, big screen TV with an SUV in the garage and etc. For whatever reason, it just takes longer for immigrants to blend in Europe. But it's happening. The religious nuts that bring their crazy religion with them to the west are the minority. The countries with the most immigrants are always always the best places to live in the world. No exception. The closed off countries are the hell holes.

 

[untermensche]

Anyone paying attention to the news realizes that Israel did not stay peaceful.

So, you think Israel should stay peaceful even when Hamas is shooting 1000s of rockets at its civilians?

How do you stay peaceful when you are being oppressed?

When your land is stolen continually?

When you can't have an open water port or airport?

When you can't come and go from your own home as you choose?

When your people have been kidnapped and tortured and murdered for decades now?

How does one stay peaceful in the face of decades of violent oppression?

 

[Jayjay]

As predicted, the scuffle is now over, with casualties in line with what was to be expected. Good job, Hamas, you got about 250 of your own people killed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As predicted, the scuffle is now over, with casualties in line what was to be expected. Good job, Hamas, you got about 250 of your own people killed.

Well you know the saying, what is the difference between a living Palestinian and a dead one? The living one has a slightly better standard of living than the dead one. Hamas is a pain in the ass, but the Palestinians are held prisoner by both Hamas, Iran, and Israel.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

oof



Western style democracy means eventually being overrun by minority voters like in the U.S. So Israel is trying to prevent that.

I didn't know apartheid was a part of western style democracy...

It isn't, that is his point. He wants to transition from democracy to apartheid. He thinks the movie Nelson Mandela is a tragedy.

America's Democracy has fallen to minorities which we can see evidenced in how many minorities control power in the US from CEOs to Government... wait no... I'm thinking about people who mow the lawns.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Anyone paying attention to the news realizes that Israel did not stay peaceful.

So, you think Israel should stay peaceful even when Hamas is shooting 1000s of rockets at its civilians?

How do you stay peaceful when you are being oppressed?

When your land is stolen continually?

When you can't have an open water port or airport?

When you can't come and go from your own home as you choose?

When your people have been kidnapped and tortured and murdered for decades now?

How does one stay peaceful in the face of decades of violent oppression?

Here's a thought: why not find some good leadership, promote it, seek a two state solution with Israel that works for both sides?

 

[Jarhyn]

How do you stay peaceful when you are being oppressed?

When your land is stolen continually?

When you can't have an open water port or airport?

When you can't come and go from your own home as you choose?

When your people have been kidnapped and tortured and murdered for decades now?

How does one stay peaceful in the face of decades of violent oppression?

Here's a thought: why not find some good leadership, promote it, seek a two state solution with Israel that works for both sides?

So, imagine for a moment that whoever lives on the other side of the closest river to you has killed your son. And your neighbor's father. And your other neighbor's wife. And your best friend's dog.

Now, imagine for a moment that you and all those other people on your side of the river are voting for a government: do you vote for the government that says "let's ignore that guy on the other side of the river", or do you vote for the government that says "let's kill those fucks who killed your families, friends' families, et Al?"

I'm pretty sure the winning line in that election, whether it's ethical or not, is going to be the Revenge Party.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

How do you stay peaceful when you are being oppressed?

When your land is stolen continually?

When you can't have an open water port or airport?

When you can't come and go from your own home as you choose?

When your people have been kidnapped and tortured and murdered for decades now?

How does one stay peaceful in the face of decades of violent oppression?

Here's a thought: why not find some good leadership, promote it, seek a two state solution with Israel that works for both sides?

The trouble is the radicals are in charge (Iran and Israel) and most Palestinians don't have a voice. There are no moderates with any level of authority when it comes to Palestine. Iran sure the heck doesn't want a stable Gaza Strip. The radicals in power in Israel will forever live in the land of Paranoia-ville. And radicals in Palestine, well powered on by the drastic disparity of access to resources compared to Israelis... well, they act out.

I'd say, in general, Israelis want peace, Palestinians want peace, Iranians don't give a fuck. But the in generals lack any power whatsoever.

 

[funinspace]

I don't know about vulgar, but it is a very generic name. In any case, Muslim already have two holy cities in Arabia. Why do they want to take the city that is holiest in Judaism too?
Reminds me of Prophet Nathan rebuking King David in 2 Samuel 12.

You were the one making noise about 'Al Quds' somehow being fake, even though those Arabs have been using their name for over a millennia. You seem to have a label issue...

<noise on silly fakery notions>

The Arabs/Muslims controlled the territory for most of the previous 1400 years, until a 100 years ago.

So they get to conquer shit but Jews are not allowed to take it back?

Didn't say that. The nation state of Israel was an unfortunate answer some 70-80 years ago to what happened previously to the people of the Jewish faith, but that is now water under the bridge.

It is Muslim holy buildings on the Temple mount from the 1300+ years ago.

Muslims love to take over other faiths' holy sites and pretend they are their own. Same with Hagia Sofia in Constantinople (#freeAsiaMinor. Turks back to Turkmenistan!)

I think all religion is silly, but Christians have their share of 'holy sites'. So what's your bitch about Muslims having them? The obvious point I was making and you seem to like to pretend doesn't exist, is that these Arabs/Muslims have also been there forever. They are not 'fake', they are not illegal immigrants, they are not squatters, et.al.

Not that it really matters either way, but the Muslim temple has existed longer than the Jewish '2nd temple' by far. And the Muslim temple has even existed longer, than if one includes the purported 1st Jewish temple (for which there is little to no archeological evidence for).

NOTE: I am not arguing that the Israeli Jews should leave.

Sounded to me like you are. Of course I hear this argument only about Americans or Israelis, never about Muslim conquerors. Or "Native" tribes warring against each other for that matter.

Nope, just you projecting. What I do think: I think Israel was crazy to start their carving up of the West Bank in the 1980's and slowly building a hell hole for Palestinians as they pushed them deeper and deeper into apartheid. Israel had 2 basic choices after legitimately fighting off the Muslim countries in their 2 wars and taking the West Bank. One they could claim the land and absorb the people into their citizenry. Or two, work towards slowly and painfully towards finding peace and eventual an independent Palestinian nation. Instead they choose a third path, creating and expanding apartheid, which continues to descend into a uglier and uglier hell hole. Personally, I think the first choice of absorbing millions of Palestinians into their nation state would be crazy, but I listed as one of the options that would avoid apartheid.

 

[Harry Bosch]

How do you stay peaceful when you are being oppressed?

When your land is stolen continually?

When you can't have an open water port or airport?

When you can't come and go from your own home as you choose?

When your people have been kidnapped and tortured and murdered for decades now?

How does one stay peaceful in the face of decades of violent oppression?

Here's a thought: why not find some good leadership, promote it, seek a two state solution with Israel that works for both sides?

The trouble is the radicals are in charge (Iran and Israel) and most Palestinians don't have a voice. There are no moderates with any level of authority when it comes to Palestine. Iran sure the heck doesn't want a stable Gaza Strip. The radicals in power in Israel will forever live in the land of Paranoia-ville. And radicals in Palestine, well powered on by the drastic disparity of access to resources compared to Israelis... well, they act out.

I'd say, in general, Israelis want peace, Palestinians want peace, Iranians don't give a fuck. But the in generals lack any power whatsoever.

Yea, I agree with you. Very sad. Very sad when the moderate Rabin (who did want a viable two state solution) was assassinated. The then right winger just wins election after election in Israel. That might change someday. I actually think that Iran desperately dosn't want a peace between Palestinians and Israel. That would further isolate them.

 

[TomC]

I'd say, in general, Israelis want peace, Palestinians want peace, Iranians don't give a fuck. But the in generals lack any power whatsoever.

I see this as the fundamental problem. The powerful elite benefit from the conflict, but can protect themselves from the worst suffering. That's for the little people to endure.

From Iran to the USA, from Likud to Hamas, the elite don't want to lose power. Conflict gives them an enemy, some people for their supporters to love to hate.

I honestly think that if 50 random Palestinian mothers and 50 random Israeli mothers were put up in a hotel for a week, sealed off from outside influences, they could sort this crap out.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

How do you stay peaceful when you are being oppressed?

When your land is stolen continually?

When you can't have an open water port or airport?

When you can't come and go from your own home as you choose?

When your people have been kidnapped and tortured and murdered for decades now?

How does one stay peaceful in the face of decades of violent oppression?

Here's a thought: why not find some good leadership, promote it, seek a two state solution with Israel that works for both sides?

Netanyahu said there will be no two states as long as he is in charge.

 

[repoman]

How do you stay peaceful when you are being oppressed?

When your land is stolen continually?

When you can't have an open water port or airport?

When you can't come and go from your own home as you choose?

When your people have been kidnapped and tortured and murdered for decades now?

How does one stay peaceful in the face of decades of violent oppression?

Here's a thought: why not find some good leadership, promote it, seek a two state solution with Israel that works for both sides?

Netanyahu said there will be no two states as long as he is in charge.

Two State solution with the Palestinian lands cut up with settlements into swiss-cheese / termite-mound in a way that would have given Robert Moses an erection?

Surely you jest!

 

[laughing dog]

Anyone paying attention to the news realizes that Israel did not stay peaceful.

So, you think Israel should stay peaceful even when Hamas is shooting 1000s of rockets at its civilians?

Taking a quote out of context is disingenuous. In the context of the discussion, it should have been clear to a disinterested reader that the gov't of Israel lit the fuse this time with its actions at the mosque.