Mueller investigation

[Elixir]

Dangling the pardon card is Donald Trump's game. It costs him nothing, and it encourages his allies to resist cooperation with investigators and courts.

Utilizing that particular power in that particular way is certainly, to any reasonable person, Obstruction of Justice.

Of course. But Trump has discovered that he is immune to any and every charge that requires establishment of a motive, regardless of how much damning circumstantial evidence exists. Such charges are the very easiest thing for his toadies to deflect; all they have to do is say he was joking.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

When the President says shit like this:

"Mueller, and the A.G. based on Mueller findings (and great intelligence), have already ruled No Collusion, No Obstruction," Trump tweeted. "These were crimes committed by Crooked Hillary, the DNC, Dirty Cops and others! INVESTIGATE THE INVESTIGATORS!"

He's guilty. Plain and simple. No innocent man talks like this or makes demonstrably false self-serving statements. End of fucking story.

 

[southernhybrid]

I agree that Trump is guilty of many things, but will his base and the Republicans in Congress give a shit? I am doubtful of that. Anyway, the redacted Mueller report comes out in less than 24 hours.

 

[Elixir]

When the President says shit like this:

"Mueller, and the A.G. based on Mueller findings (and great intelligence), have already ruled No Collusion, No Obstruction," Trump tweeted. "These were crimes committed by Crooked Hillary, the DNC, Dirty Cops and others! INVESTIGATE THE INVESTIGATORS!"

He's guilty. Plain and simple. No innocent man talks like this or makes demonstrably false self-serving statements. End of fucking story.

He was just joking. You can't impeach a President for joking, can you?

 

[Keith&Co.]

He was just joking. You can't impeach a President for joking, can you?

He keeps saying shit like that. "How can you impeach when the Economy is doing good?"
"How can you impeach when I'm the favorite president?"

Dude, ALL that impeachment means is that sufficient numbers in the House think you should not be president. If your jokes are in bad taste, or reflect poorly on the Office, or no one laughs, that could be an article for impeachment.

 

[Copernicus]

IMO, the House should impeach Trump, regardless of the fact that the Republican-controlled Senate will never convict. However, for different reasons, the leadership of both political parties have concluded that they should not impeach Trump. The Republicans do not want to allow any public scrutiny that might endanger their control of government, and the Democrats want their next nominee to run against Donald Trump in 2020. Democrats don't want to upset their path to certain victory, as they proceed to form up their traditional pre-election circular firing squad.

 

[PyramidHead]

When the President says shit like this:

"Mueller, and the A.G. based on Mueller findings (and great intelligence), have already ruled No Collusion, No Obstruction," Trump tweeted. "These were crimes committed by Crooked Hillary, the DNC, Dirty Cops and others! INVESTIGATE THE INVESTIGATORS!"

He's guilty. Plain and simple. No innocent man talks like this or makes demonstrably false self-serving statements. End of fucking story.

Have you ever met somebody with a giant ego and a constant feedback loop of positive reinforcement for saying demonstrably false self-serving statements? Were all of them criminals?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

However, for different reasons, the leadership of both political parties have concluded that they should not impeach Trump. The Republicans do not want to allow any public scrutiny that might endanger their control of government, and the Democrats want their next nominee to run against Donald Trump in 2020. Democrats don't want to upset their path to certain victory, as they proceed to form up their traditional pre-election circular firing squad.

Bingo. You've summed this up perfectly.

Problem is, if the Democrats don't get their act together, they will lose to Trump, again.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

With respect to whether the President can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under Article II of the Constitution, we concluded that Congress has the authority to prohibit a President's corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice.

Man, total exoneration sounds kind of damning.

 

[Copernicus]

Here is the full redacted report, which was released minutes ago: Mueller Report PDF

 

[blastula]

The assholes released it non-text-searchable. That's obstruction in itself.

 

[PyramidHead]

With respect to whether the President can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under Article II of the Constitution, we concluded that Congress has the authority to prohibit a President's corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice.

Man, total exoneration sounds kind of damning.

Putting the ball in Congress' court is literally equivalent to doing and recommending nothing, though

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The President's efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests.

Trump tried to obstruct justice, but because justice wasn't obstructed due to others, it'd be harder to present a case. Yeah, "total exoneration" there bub.

- - - Updated - - -

With respect to whether the President can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under Article II of the Constitution, we concluded that Congress has the authority to prohibit a President's corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice.

Man, total exoneration sounds kind of damning.

Putting the ball in Congress' court is literally equivalent to doing and recommending nothing, though

The Mueller report indicated that the President abused his authority.

Meanwhile, from the report:
In May 2017, after President Trump learned from then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein had appointed special counsel Robert Mueller, Trump “slumped back in his chair and said...

Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked.

 

[PyramidHead]

Trump tried to obstruct justice, but because justice wasn't obstructed due to others, it'd be harder to present a case. Yeah, "total exoneration" there bub.

- - - Updated - - -

With respect to whether the President can be found to have obstructed justice by exercising his powers under Article II of the Constitution, we concluded that Congress has the authority to prohibit a President's corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice.

Man, total exoneration sounds kind of damning.

Putting the ball in Congress' court is literally equivalent to doing and recommending nothing, though

The Mueller report indicated that the President abused his authority.

Which, without prompting any action or consequence without the approval of Congress, means literally nothing

EDIT: Let me put it this way, do you think when Pelosi declared impeachment was off the table she was somehow unaware that the President abused his authority? He's been doing that since day one, in broad daylight

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump tried to obstruct justice, but because justice wasn't obstructed due to others, it'd be harder to present a case. Yeah, "total exoneration" there bub.

- - - Updated - - -

Man, total exoneration sounds kind of damning.

Putting the ball in Congress' court is literally equivalent to doing and recommending nothing, though

The Mueller report indicated that the President abused his authority.

Which, without prompting any action or consequence without the approval of Congress, means literally nothing

If we had a Congress that obeyed the Constitution, it could mean something. What Mueller is saying is that Congress is the venue for correcting this. And he is right. Proving obstruction is much harder in court. In Congress, the bar is lower because it becomes more of a 'common sense' thing.

And back to the original point, despite the White House saying "President Trump has been fully and completely exonerated yet again.", the report clearly indicates Trump abused his power. This won't lead to impeachment, but the significance of the report saying as such is very high. I understand your statement in indicating, 'well, so what, nothing will come of it'... but it is a thorn directly into Trump and refutes their claim that Trump was exonerated.

Won't stop them from saying it though.

 

[barbos]

The assholes released it non-text-searchable. That's obstruction in itself.

They physically scanned printed report and converted to PDF. Most likely afraid of electronic editing.
Abuse of internet if you ask me.
I had hoped to search it for "Alfa Bank"

 

[Treedbear]

IMO, the House should impeach Trump, regardless of the fact that the Republican-controlled Senate will never convict. However, for different reasons, the leadership of both political parties have concluded that they should not impeach Trump. The Republicans do not want to allow any public scrutiny that might endanger their control of government, and the Democrats want their next nominee to run against Donald Trump in 2020. Democrats don't want to upset their path to certain victory, as they proceed to form up their traditional pre-election circular firing squad.

I think Pelosi is being extremely shrewd. The plain fact is that if impeachment proceding are unsuccessful for whatever reason the result will be that the Trump regime will be strengthened and even less vulnerable to criticism from Dems or Republicans.

 

[PyramidHead]

Trump tried to obstruct justice, but because justice wasn't obstructed due to others, it'd be harder to present a case. Yeah, "total exoneration" there bub.

- - - Updated - - -

Putting the ball in Congress' court is literally equivalent to doing and recommending nothing, though

The Mueller report indicated that the President abused his authority.

Which, without prompting any action or consequence without the approval of Congress, means literally nothing

If we had a Congress that obeyed the Constitution, it could mean something. What Mueller is saying is that Congress is the venue for correcting this. And he is right. Proving obstruction is much harder in court. In Congress, the bar is lower.

And back to the original point, despite the White House saying "President Trump has been fully and completely exonerated yet again.", the report clearly indicates Trump abused his power. This won't lead to impeachment, but the significance of the report saying as such is very high. I understand your statement in indicating, 'well, so what, nothing will come of it'... but it is a thorn directly into Trump and refutes their claim that Trump was exonerated.

Won't stop them from saying it though.

That's all true, but the focus on these kinds of pronouncements is something I genuinely have come to despise in American politics, especially among Democrats. My opinion, cynical perhaps, is that Republicans know how much the Democrats salivate over catching Trump in lies, inconsistencies, and gaffes, because it was their fixation for 8 years under Bush. In the early months of Trump's administration there were mass protests, from the Disrupt J20 events to the Women's March, the airport closures in the wake of his travel ban, and other uprisings. All of that stuff took a back seat when Russiagate became the focus of opposition to Trump, and it has allowed him to count on a relatively toothless public (or better yet from his perspective, to ignore the public entirely).

Something that was widely known and not even concealed by Trump, namely his brazen disregard for the propriety expected of someone in his position, has now after two years been given institutional confirmation by the FBI, and for some reason this official pronouncement--and not the obvious, public, regularly broadcast examples of Trump being Trump that everyone is by now familiar with--is what constitutes "refutation". Trump and his supporters are even less impressed by the stamp of government approval than they are by public outcry. Their entire rationale for doing what they do is to flout the rules and piss off liberals who apply legalism to every problem. Being able to point to a notarized document that says something contrary to a Trump tweet is basically crack cocaine for Democrats and utterly insignificant for Trump and his base.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Mueller Report seems to be saying 'The Trump Campaign and Administration lied a lot to the press and the nation.'

 

[ZiprHead]

I think the investigation was stopped by either Whitaker or Barr.