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Mueller investigation

PyramidHead said:
Keith&Co. said:
Artemus said:
So the claim is that, per Mueller-team investigators, the Mueller report is far more damning that Barr has announced. I do believe that we are in a full-fledged constitutional crisis.
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So, we've been waiting two years for the actual results of the investigation, as opposed to the opinions of unconnected commenters, NOW we're waiting for the actual results of the investigation as opposed to the opinions of CONNECTED commenters...?
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This will never end. The final report will be released, but redacted, and the long-form non-redacted version will become a point of contention forever and ever.
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i can think of at least one end to that....
 
Keith&Co. said:
July 1974, Doonesbury
Seemed appropriate
View attachment 20852
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Wow.

Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Artemus said:
So the claim is that, per Mueller-team investigators, the Mueller report is far more damning that Barr has announced. I do believe that we are in a full-fledged constitutional crisis.
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This makes sense, but I don't think this story or Barr's summary should be a substitute for looking at the primary source documentation. So...now I probably am being annoying...but Roger Stone indictment is pretty big out of everything there.
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At this point I'd settle for any summaries that were prepared by Mueller and his team for public consumption in advance of announcing that they were "done".
I cannot believe that no such documents exist, and the fact that nobody has seen them places more than a little suspicion on the AG.
 
Joy. So the new ploy from Republicans, apparently, is to argue that the only way Congress gets the full report is if the House impeaches:

Do Democrats have to begin the process of impeaching President Donald Trump in order to access special counsel Robert Mueller’s secrets?

That legal debate began raging inside the House Judiciary Committee on Friday after a new federal court ruling suggested that Congress’ access to some confidential evidence — like the kind obtained by Mueller — hinges on lawmakers launching a “judicial proceeding.”

Republicans on the committee say the only “judicial proceeding” Congress can lead is an impeachment inquiry -- a claim they say is backed up by legal precedent and history. Democrats would have to launch one against Trump if they want Mueller’s grand jury evidence, Republicans say.
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But it’s a fight that could animate the next few weeks and months as Democrats attempt to pry loose as much information from Mueller’s probe as they can. They’re still awaiting access to a redacted version of Mueller’s 400-page report, which Attorney General William Barr has indicated he’ll deliver by mid-April. But Democrats say Congress must see an unredacted version of the report and Mueller’s underlying evidence -- even if Barr has to get a judge to unseal the grand jury material it contains.

That effort was complicated Friday by a D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling that said judges are not permitted to unseal grand jury information at their own discretion but rather must follow existing court guidelines that limit the disclosure of such material. Those guidelines have been used to share grand jury material with Congress “preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.”

The meaning of that phrase is likely to become a flashpoint in Congress’ battle over the Mueller report. Complicating the matter further, the 2-1 court decision may not be the final word legally on the issue if the full D.C. Appeals Court or the Supreme Court takes it up. But in the meantime, the Justice Department is hailing the ruling as a legal victory, a potential indication that it intends to hew closely to the traditional secrecy of grand jury matters.
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Dem argument (in part):

“I can understand why Republicans would like to interpret this morning’s decision as cutting off all access by congress to these materials. There’s probably something very damaging to the president there,” said a Democratic Judiciary Committee counsel. “But no court, including the D.C. Circuit in this morning’s case has ever held that Congress must be in an impeachment proceeding in order to access grand jury materials.”

To bolster their case, Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.) has argued that Congress received access to grand jury material amassed by prosecutors in investigations of Presidents Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton. Ken Starr, the independent counsel who investigated Clinton, turned over a mountain of grand jury material to Congress, Nadler noted earlier this week.

“As a legal matter, the Judiciary Committee has always had access to grand jury material involving questions of presidential misconduct, and I can’t imagine the courts ultimately deciding otherwise in this case,” said Julian Epstein, who was the committee’s chief counsel in 1998, when Democrats received Starr’s grand jury evidence. “This Republican gamesmanship of wanting an impeachment declaration is childish form over substance, and the courts will not likely bow to that kind of rhetorical legerdemain.”
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Jolly_Penguin said:
ideologyhunter said:
Actually, Trump is a teetotaler, isn't he? The evil just comes from his basic nature.
I teetotal too. Can't stand the taste or smell of any kind of alky. Knowing that Trump shares my habit makes me want to get hammered. Alas, I cannot.
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Anybody know where that term comes from? Teetotal? I am that too. I am not a fan of alcohol of any kind.
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In the early 1800's saying "Tee-total" would have meant the same as "total with a capital Tee". Those who totally abstained from alcohol would then say "I am Tee-total" to emphasize their conviction to not touch a drop.
 
There are reports that Mueller’s team had already prepared summaries for public release of each section of the report.

They would have known what to omit due to ongoing investigations I would think.

From the Washington Post -

In the (so far) quiet war of words between the Barr and Mueller camps, we have learned that the special counsel’s report was prepared with summaries of each section that were designed purposely for quick delivery to Congress. These summaries have been scrubbed of all or nearly all controversial material and, therefore, consist of Mueller’s analyses and conclusions without disclosing the supporting, potentially confidential, evidentiary material.
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Barr just said that he "might" releases the full report to Congress, but unless I misunderstood, he also said that they would have to fight to get it. WTF! I'm hoping i missed something. Barr is refusing to answer most of the questions that Congress is asking him about the report. He wouldn't even answer whether or not he discussed the report with Trump. WTF! He keeps saying that he's not going to answer the questions until the report comes out. What an asshole.
 
Update:

Barr dodged a tricky question: When Rep. Nita Lowey asked about whether Trump’s claims of “total” exoneration are accurate, Barr did not answer the specific question. Instead, he said that everyone will get a chance to read the report soon.
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It looks like this thread actually isn't going to die since now the Mueller Investigation means investigating Mueller.
 
Koyaanisqatsi said:
Jesus. How many times will the FBI allow the Trump occupation to fuck them in the ass?
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a late night comic said something to the order of, "how can they say they found no conclusive evidence? Just plant some crack in his shoe like you always do! Problem solved".
 
Gun Nut said:
Koyaanisqatsi said:
Jesus. How many times will the FBI allow the Trump occupation to fuck them in the ass?
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a late night comic said something to the order of, "how can they say they found no conclusive evidence? Just plant some crack in his shoe like you always do! Problem solved".
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His Flatulence's crack?! Eeewwwwww!
 
Patooka said:
Roger Stone Tells Judge He Needs Copy Of Mueller Report For Defense

“To be clear, Stone is not requesting the Report be disclosed to the world – only to his counsel so that it may aid in preparing his defense,” the lawyers wrote.
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This is more of the political gamesmanship that Roger Stone has devoted his life to. He knows that the report will never be released to him before Congress gets it, and he expects Barr to keep it sewn up tight. If he doesn't get it, then Stone's lawyers will demand that his case be dismissed, which also won't happen. However, this would become one of many excuses that Donald Trump could offer for giving his friend a total pardon. I am just speculating, of course, but I do think that the end game for Stone is a pardon. Trump has pointedly not ruled that out, when people have asked him about his intentions. Dangling the pardon card is Donald Trump's game. It costs him nothing, and it encourages his allies to resist cooperation with investigators and courts.
 
Copernicus said:
Dangling the pardon card is Donald Trump's game. It costs him nothing, and it encourages his allies to resist cooperation with investigators and courts.
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Utilizing that particular power in that particular way is certainly, to any reasonable person, Obstruction of Justice.
 
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