Mueller investigation

[Horatio Parker]

Speculation?

Yes. There's no new info.

Kushner failed to disclose a June 2016 meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya at Trump Tower in New York with Donald Trump Jr. and Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort. This was omitted even after Kushner said he edited and resubmitted the application multiple times.

If by "speculation" you mean the kind you make when you hear water hitting your roof and the sound of thunder close by that leads you to "speculate" that it is raining out... Then, yes.

there are those on this board, however, that might dismiss the rain saying, "the Sun isn't all that good either, you know".

It's raining, but as far as we know, it isn't raining on Kushner. Yet. Omitting a meeting from a form isn't money laundering. Plenty of smoke, but no fire.

I hope to see Trump dragged from the WH kicking and screaming he wuz robbed, and his little dog too. But so far, tho it's early, they don't have anything. Dean knows that. Kushner is in deep financial shit, it would be no surprise if he's taken to cutting corners. But if Mueller's got the goods, he's keeping it to himself. That's all.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes. There's no new info.

Kushner failed to disclose a June 2016 meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya at Trump Tower in New York with Donald Trump Jr. and Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort. This was omitted even after Kushner said he edited and resubmitted the application multiple times.

If by "speculation" you mean the kind you make when you hear water hitting your roof and the sound of thunder close by that leads you to "speculate" that it is raining out... Then, yes.

there are those on this board, however, that might dismiss the rain saying, "the Sun isn't all that good either, you know".

It's raining, but as far as we know, it isn't raining on Kushner. Yet. Omitting a meeting from a form isn't money laundering. Plenty of smoke, but no fire.

I hope to see Trump dragged from the WH kicking and screaming he wuz robbed, and his little dog too.

I'm still going with the Trump singing "I did it my way" as he parades out of the White House after resigning and right when to the climax of the song, the front door slams behind him. He looks around and no one is there, except Sean Spicer... and they both walk off together into the sunset.

 

[ElectEngr]

I'm waiting for Il Douchebag to be found on the floor in his bedroom, foaming at the mouth, gyrating uncontrolably, babbling incoherently. He will then be taken to Walter Reed where he will be diagnosed with a stroke.

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Malintent]

There appears to be conspiracy and treason in our midst. Why can't we look at data such as emails made public in order to speculate about who is going down next? Should we merely be information receivers and never think then comment on our thoughts?

Let me be more specific. We, as in people who post here, can fire away. Public figures who go on TV and do it are attention whores who don't deserve any. A former DNC chairman going on TV and announcing, "I think Kushner is next to be indicted" is behavior I'd expect to see on Faux News.

Would you agree that there is a difference between just saying something because the effect of saying it is profitable, and saying something because there are objective facts supporting the conclusion?

you know... NEWS versus FAKE NEWS.

What facts are you aware of that make what you claim the former in this case?

 

[Malintent]

Yes. There's no new info.

Kushner failed to disclose a June 2016 meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya at Trump Tower in New York with Donald Trump Jr. and Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort. This was omitted even after Kushner said he edited and resubmitted the application multiple times.

If by "speculation" you mean the kind you make when you hear water hitting your roof and the sound of thunder close by that leads you to "speculate" that it is raining out... Then, yes.

there are those on this board, however, that might dismiss the rain saying, "the Sun isn't all that good either, you know".

It's raining, but as far as we know, it isn't raining on Kushner. Yet. Omitting a meeting from a form isn't money laundering. Plenty of smoke, but no fire.

I hope to see Trump dragged from the WH kicking and screaming he wuz robbed, and his little dog too. But so far, tho it's early, they don't have anything. Dean knows that. Kushner is in deep financial shit, it would be no surprise if he's taken to cutting corners. But if Mueller's got the goods, he's keeping it to himself. That's all.

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

if Mueller's got the goods...

If he didn't you would never have heard of him... because there would be no investigation

... he's keeping it to himself

.. and if he didn't he would be compromising the outcome of the investigation.

.. that is enough about "there is more known than that which is sitting on the tip of your nose"

.. .and in other related news... water is wet.

 

[Elixir]

Yes. There's no new info.

Kushner failed to disclose a June 2016 meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya at Trump Tower in New York with Donald Trump Jr. and Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort. This was omitted even after Kushner said he edited and resubmitted the application multiple times.

If by "speculation" you mean the kind you make when you hear water hitting your roof and the sound of thunder close by that leads you to "speculate" that it is raining out... Then, yes.

there are those on this board, however, that might dismiss the rain saying, "the Sun isn't all that good either, you know".

It's raining, but as far as we know, it isn't raining on Kushner. Yet. Omitting a meeting from a form isn't money laundering. Plenty of smoke, but no fire.

I hope to see Trump dragged from the WH kicking and screaming he wuz robbed, and his little dog too. But so far, tho it's early, they don't have anything. Dean knows that. Kushner is in deep financial shit, it would be no surprise if he's taken to cutting corners. But if Mueller's got the goods, he's keeping it to himself. That's all.

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

if Mueller's got the goods...

If he didn't you would never have heard of him... because there would be no investigation

... he's keeping it to himself

.. and if he didn't he would be compromising the outcome of the investigation.

.. that is enough about "there is more known than that which is sitting on the tip of your nose"

.. .and in other related news... water is wet.

Mueller might own stock in a popcorn Company?

 

[jab]

I get the feeling you guys continue to underestimate Trump. Ever since he was elected he has been underestimated. The Republicans did it. the Democrats did it, and I think people continue to do it.

Sure..the guy is a total knob, but even total knobs can be cunning and formidable and hard to beat

Trump is a dog who chased a car, and has no idea what to do with it after he's caught it. I've seen more cunning from a 3-year-old. A "cunning" individual wouldn't continually hire criminals/incompetents, make statements that make it easy for courts to neutralize his executive orders, or sabotage the legislative agenda he's allegedly in favor of.

3-year olds can be cunning, on a short term scale--just not very consistent or skilled at seeing the big picture.

 

[jab]

I will wait to see the evidence. Why don't you do the same?

What argunments have I made to say he didn't commit treason?

What do you gain by pretending he isn't a traitor?

What is the evidence he is a traitor?

Just the evidence that is already out there is enough for a reasonable person to conclude that treason happened (such as the emails that Trump's own son released to the public, or the Manafort indictment). If you are maintaining skepticism, then you simply are in denial, and I think we both know why.

Again, the world already know that you are a traitor-lover. Why go through this dance to convince people that you aren't?

Please check the US law on treason--as I understand it, it works in this case only if Russia in 2015-2016 was an enemy of the US. It is my understanding that there is a quite separate US law about a US candidate or political party accepting or soliciting help from a foreign government in an US election campaign. This is what Trump's campaign did.

Clinton (and Trump's unnamed Repub opponent) did not break this law in assembling the dossier, since it was not done with the cooperation of a foreign government, but surreptitiously to find info that a foreign govt. did not want released.

 

[Elixir]

I will wait to see the evidence. Why don't you do the same?

What argunments have I made to say he didn't commit treason?

What do you gain by pretending he isn't a traitor?

What is the evidence he is a traitor?

Just the evidence that is already out there is enough for a reasonable person to conclude that treason happened (such as the emails that Trump's own son released to the public, or the Manafort indictment). If you are maintaining skepticism, then you simply are in denial, and I think we both know why.

Again, the world already know that you are a traitor-lover. Why go through this dance to convince people that you aren't?

Please check the US law on treason--as I understand it, it works in this case only if Russia in 2015-2016 was an enemy of the US. It is my understanding that there is a quite separate US law about a US candidate or political party accepting or soliciting help from a foreign government in an US election campaign. This is what Trump's campaign did.

Clinton (and Trump's unnamed Repub opponent) did not break this law in assembling the dossier, since it was not done with the cooperation of a foreign government, but surreptitiously to find info that a foreign govt. did not want released.

Legalese aside, knowingly accepting the help of a hostile foreign power in an effort to influence a US election should be an impeachable offense.
That this administration is a clear and present danger to this country is not a matter subject to semantic or legal quibbles - it is clear and present.


But if you insist, here's some light reading

 

[Malintent]

Yes. There's no new info.

Kushner failed to disclose a June 2016 meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya at Trump Tower in New York with Donald Trump Jr. and Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort. This was omitted even after Kushner said he edited and resubmitted the application multiple times.

If by "speculation" you mean the kind you make when you hear water hitting your roof and the sound of thunder close by that leads you to "speculate" that it is raining out... Then, yes.

there are those on this board, however, that might dismiss the rain saying, "the Sun isn't all that good either, you know".

It's raining, but as far as we know, it isn't raining on Kushner. Yet. Omitting a meeting from a form isn't money laundering. Plenty of smoke, but no fire.

I hope to see Trump dragged from the WH kicking and screaming he wuz robbed, and his little dog too. But so far, tho it's early, they don't have anything. Dean knows that. Kushner is in deep financial shit, it would be no surprise if he's taken to cutting corners. But if Mueller's got the goods, he's keeping it to himself. That's all.

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

if Mueller's got the goods...

If he didn't you would never have heard of him... because there would be no investigation

... he's keeping it to himself

.. and if he didn't he would be compromising the outcome of the investigation.

.. that is enough about "there is more known than that which is sitting on the tip of your nose"

.. .and in other related news... water is wet.

Mueller might own stock in a popcorn Company?

but then he would have to recuse himself!

 

[Horatio Parker]

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

Sure, but can they tie a crime to Trump? So far, there's nothing.

If the Dems retake Congress, then obstruction of justice alone could bring him down. But if not, I think they'll need something stronger. And it's not clear at this point that Mueller can deliver.

 

[Malintent]

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

Sure, but can they tie a crime to Trump? So far, there's nothing.

If the Dems retake Congress, then obstruction of justice alone could bring him down. But if not, I think they'll need something stronger. And it's not clear at this point that Mueller can deliver.

I still don't see the justification for holding a position that it is even possible that Trump will not ultimately be held legally accountable for the actions of those that have already been indicted.

The only alternative is to subscribe to the story that Trump is an innocent victim of his Staff's independent and unapproved actions that serve only themselves and not the Trump strategy for winning. That is the story he is writing by calling GP a "nobody" and Flyn "just a volunteer"... he is attempting to distance himself from their activities because he knows the jig is up.

It's like Hitler claiming no responsibility for what the SS did, even if they were "just following orders".

 

[ElectEngr]

Or Ray-guns with Iran/Contra...Plausable deniability

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Elixir]

Or Ray-guns with Iran/Contra...Plausable deniability

Later,
ElectEngr

Except that Cheato's deniability is already implausible...

 

[Horatio Parker]

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

Sure, but can they tie a crime to Trump? So far, there's nothing.

If the Dems retake Congress, then obstruction of justice alone could bring him down. But if not, I think they'll need something stronger. And it's not clear at this point that Mueller can deliver.

I still don't see the justification for holding a position that it is even possible that Trump will not ultimately be held legally accountable for the actions of those that have already been indicted.

The only alternative is to subscribe to the story that Trump is an innocent victim of his Staff's independent and unapproved actions that serve only themselves and not the Trump strategy for winning. That is the story he is writing by calling GP a "nobody" and Flyn "just a volunteer"... he is attempting to distance himself from their activities because he knows the jig is up.

It's like Hitler claiming no responsibility for what the SS did, even if they were "just following orders".

None of that means squat unless people start swearing to it under oath. Haven't seen that except for Papadopolous, who seems unlikely to get anything on Trump personally, and he's only one guy.

Trump doesn't write emails. Mueller needs multiple witnesses testifying.

 

[ZiprHead]

Or Ray-guns with Iran/Contra...Plausable deniability

Later,
ElectEngr

Except that Cheato's deniability is already implausible...

He was the one that wrote the adoption story excuse.

 

[jab]

Or Ray-guns with Iran/Contra...Plausable deniability

Later,
ElectEngr

Except that Cheato's deniability is already implausible...

He was the one that wrote the adoption story excuse.

Where the proof of that? (yes i know he did it) He, I think, dictated the draft--if he wrote it on paper, that paper has almost certainly disappeared--he didn't email or tweet the adoption story draft.

 

[Underseer]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/359442-gop-lawmaker-calls-for-mueller-to-be-fired-on-house-floor

A Republican politician other than Trump is calling for Mueller to be fired.

It's official: Republicans prefer the rule of men over the rule of law, and think the founding fathers were wrong.

 

[ZiprHead]

Saw that. By declaring the investigation to be a "coup d'état" is him implying he may be guilty and could be removed.

 

[Patooka]

Or Ray-guns with Iran/Contra...Plausable deniability

Later,
ElectEngr

That's a probable outcome. Remember when every Republican senator magically lost all comprehension of nuance when ask Comey about the "I hope you can let this go" saga?