Mueller investigation

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

Sure, but can they tie a crime to Trump? So far, there's nothing.

If the Dems retake Congress, then obstruction of justice alone could bring him down. But if not, I think they'll need something stronger. And it's not clear at this point that Mueller can deliver.

Oh goodness... if only they could bring down Donnie by having Jared wear a wire!

 

[Malintent]

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

Sure, but can they tie a crime to Trump? So far, there's nothing.

If the Dems retake Congress, then obstruction of justice alone could bring him down. But if not, I think they'll need something stronger. And it's not clear at this point that Mueller can deliver.

Al Capone never hurt a fly. You can't tie a single murder to him. Nothing on Trump, like that?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

Sure, but can they tie a crime to Trump? So far, there's nothing.

If the Dems retake Congress, then obstruction of justice alone could bring him down. But if not, I think they'll need something stronger. And it's not clear at this point that Mueller can deliver.

Al Capone never hurt a fly. You can't tie a single murder to him. Nothing on Trump, like that?

Horatio Parker isn't defending Trump. He is putting forth a very valid legal issue. The irony with your statement is that Manafort is charged with evading taxes, like Capone was.

Look, Mueller knows what happened. First the Europeans and then the FBI and CIA saw this stuff happening in near real time. How to deal with it was much harder though, but such information was likely inadmissible in court. Which means Mueller must find ways to develop information that is admissible in court, like the Papadopolos evidence. The US knew that was happening, but in order for a jury or judge to hear about it in a court room, Mueller needs it from the horse's mouth.

To tie Trump to all of this, it will be very hard, which is why I love the idea of Jared Kuschner wearing a wire when talking to Trump. Nothing would be sweeter. Ultimately, Mueller knows the truth, but court and justice require a certain level of legality for submission as evidence. And Mueller is working on it. In less than a year, he took down Manafort for $75 million in money laundering, which is pretty impressive in such a short time. He knows that Manafort has no love for Trump or Kuschner. He knows Manafort will be desperate as he has little actual capital. And he needs the likes of Manafort and Kuschner to get to Trump, if that connection can be made. But it'd take emails or recordings to take out a President. Of course, knowing the idiots in "Stupid Watergate", there are probably several paper trails waiting to be exploited.

 

[ElectEngr]

Sick thought last night.

Two Russian operatives are sent to "eliminate" Mueller. They succeed but are caught. We find out they are traveling under Russian Diplomatic passports and therefore Diplomatic Immunity.

The State Department orders them released....Now what?

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Horatio Parker]

That's not all. Firstly, the mere existence of any criminal investigation is itself evidence that there exists evidence of a crime... That is how investigations START. Trump would love us all to think that investigations are just done "willy nilly" and either come up with something that the investigator likes and can be believed, or doesn't... and it is a matter of public opinion on the opinions presented without facts... they would absolutely love you to believe that.

In reality, a judge has to review evidence before allowing any subpoenas or warrants to be issued. This means that when you hear that there is an investigation, especially something this sensitive and high level, the only question is WHO is going to jail for HOW severe a crime...

Sure, but can they tie a crime to Trump? So far, there's nothing.

If the Dems retake Congress, then obstruction of justice alone could bring him down. But if not, I think they'll need something stronger. And it's not clear at this point that Mueller can deliver.

Al Capone never hurt a fly. You can't tie a single murder to him. Nothing on Trump, like that?

You mean that he did? Or that can be proved?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Sick thought last night.

Two Russian operatives are sent to "eliminate" Mueller. They succeed but are caught. We find out they are traveling under Russian Diplomatic passports and therefore Diplomatic Immunity.

The State Department orders them released....Now what?

Later,
ElectEngr

Why would Russia want to off Mueller. The Mueller investigation is helping with what their goal was in the first place. Put western Democracy into doubt.

 

[Elixir]

Sick thought last night.

Two Russian operatives are sent to "eliminate" Mueller. They succeed but are caught. We find out they are traveling under Russian Diplomatic passports and therefore Diplomatic Immunity.

The State Department orders them released....Now what?

Later,
ElectEngr

State Department? WHAT State Department?

 

[ElectEngr]

Why of course to keep Uncle Vlad's willing fool and cock holster in power.

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Malintent]

Sure, but can they tie a crime to Trump? So far, there's nothing.

If the Dems retake Congress, then obstruction of justice alone could bring him down. But if not, I think they'll need something stronger. And it's not clear at this point that Mueller can deliver.

I still don't see the justification for holding a position that it is even possible that Trump will not ultimately be held legally accountable for the actions of those that have already been indicted.

The only alternative is to subscribe to the story that Trump is an innocent victim of his Staff's independent and unapproved actions that serve only themselves and not the Trump strategy for winning. That is the story he is writing by calling GP a "nobody" and Flyn "just a volunteer"... he is attempting to distance himself from their activities because he knows the jig is up.

It's like Hitler claiming no responsibility for what the SS did, even if they were "just following orders".

None of that means squat unless people start swearing to it under oath. Haven't seen that except for Papadopolous, who seems unlikely to get anything on Trump personally, and he's only one guy.

Trump doesn't write emails. Mueller needs multiple witnesses testifying.

Then I guess its a good thing that every scrap of information about what Meuller has or does not have, or wants, is posted on Facebook for the public to view.

For every little bit they disclose (or are forced to disclose at the point of issuing subpoenas and such), there is a mountain of information they have not had to disclose that they have.

It is shocking how often I feel I need to remind people that the universe of knowledge is not on their fucking Twitter feed.

 

[Sarpedon]

Diplomatic Immunity is not a get out of jail free card. It is protection from nuisance and retaliation. If anyone with a diplomatic passport would do something like that, their immunity would be immediately revoked. The whole theory behind diplomatic immunity is that it is NOT used that way. If it were routinely abused, it would go away.

 

[ElectEngr]

http://foreignpolicy.com/2011/02/15/can-you-get-away-with-any-crime-if-you-have-diplomatic-immunity/

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Sarpedon]

Yes, now show me a case where someone with diplomatic immunity engaged in a political assassination. Like the article says, that sort of thing doesn't happen, because if it did, there would soon be no such thing as diplomatic immunity. Its utterly insane to think a country would engage in such a risk. If Russia did that, they'd find themselves completely isolated. No one would take their diplomats and no one would send any diplomats.

 

[ZiprHead]

Diplomatic Immunity is not a get out of jail free card. It is protection from nuisance and retaliation. If anyone with a diplomatic passport would do something like that, their immunity would be immediately revoked. The whole theory behind diplomatic immunity is that it is NOT used that way. If it were routinely abused, it would go away.

Remember those 19 Turkish "bodyguards" that attacked the protesters all have indictments against them.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I still don't see the justification for holding a position that it is even possible that Trump will not ultimately be held legally accountable for the actions of those that have already been indicted.

The only alternative is to subscribe to the story that Trump is an innocent victim of his Staff's independent and unapproved actions that serve only themselves and not the Trump strategy for winning. That is the story he is writing by calling GP a "nobody" and Flyn "just a volunteer"... he is attempting to distance himself from their activities because he knows the jig is up.

It's like Hitler claiming no responsibility for what the SS did, even if they were "just following orders".

None of that means squat unless people start swearing to it under oath. Haven't seen that except for Papadopolous, who seems unlikely to get anything on Trump personally, and he's only one guy.

Trump doesn't write emails. Mueller needs multiple witnesses testifying.

Then I guess its a good thing that every scrap of information about what Meuller has or does not have, or wants, is posted on Facebook for the public to view.

For every little bit they disclose (or are forced to disclose at the point of issuing subpoenas and such), there is a mountain of information they have not had to disclose that they have.

It is shocking how often I feel I need to remind people that the universe of knowledge is not on their fucking Twitter feed.

Or in their imagination.

 

[KeepTalking]

Yes, now show me a case where someone with diplomatic immunity engaged in a political assassination. Like the article says, that sort of thing doesn't happen, because if it did, there would soon be no such thing as diplomatic immunity. Its utterly insane to think a country would engage in such a risk. If Russia did that, they'd find themselves completely isolated. No one would take their diplomats and no one would send any diplomats.

But it makes for great TV when they can't get their hands on the murderer because... diplomatic immunity!

 

[Underseer]

None of that means squat unless people start swearing to it under oath. Haven't seen that except for Papadopolous, who seems unlikely to get anything on Trump personally, and he's only one guy.

Trump doesn't write emails. Mueller needs multiple witnesses testifying.

Then I guess its a good thing that every scrap of information about what Meuller has or does not have, or wants, is posted on Facebook for the public to view.

For every little bit they disclose (or are forced to disclose at the point of issuing subpoenas and such), there is a mountain of information they have not had to disclose that they have.

It is shocking how often I feel I need to remind people that the universe of knowledge is not on their fucking Twitter feed.

Or in their imagination.

Yes, this is all in our imagination. No collusion happened. No money laundering happened. Trump jr did not confess to a crime in the emails he released. It's all just a left wing conspiracy! Fake news! Fake news!

 

[Elixir]

Then I guess its a good thing that every scrap of information about what Meuller has or does not have, or wants, is posted on Facebook for the public to view.

For every little bit they disclose (or are forced to disclose at the point of issuing subpoenas and such), there is a mountain of information they have not had to disclose that they have.

It is shocking how often I feel I need to remind people that the universe of knowledge is not on their fucking Twitter feed.

Or in their imagination.

Yes, this is all in our imagination. No collusion happened. No money laundering happened. Trump jr did not confess to a crime in the emails he released. It's all just a left wing conspiracy! Fake news! Fake news!

Collusion isn't illegal. Obstruction of justice is, and so is money laundering. Has Twitler pronounced "NO obstruction of justice" or "NO money laundering!"? I only hear him deny collusion (and that's just him personally).

 

[Ford]

Or in their imagination.

Yes, this is all in our imagination. No collusion happened. No money laundering happened. Trump jr did not confess to a crime in the emails he released. It's all just a left wing conspiracy! Fake news! Fake news!

Collusion isn't illegal. Obstruction of justice is, and so is money laundering. Has Twitler pronounced "NO obstruction of justice" or "NO money laundering!"? I only hear him deny collusion (and that's just him personally).

Yeah, I'm beginning to think that this is taking on a life of it's own. Like Whitewater, but worse. That investigation began with shady real estate, but wound up being about a blow job. This one began with possible Russian collusion, but seems to be turning into an investigation into money laundering. Lots of money laundering. Like Mueller started diving into "the Russia thing" and stumbled upon a completely different and much-more-than-a-blowjob thing.

Odd that we're back on shady real estate, innit?

 

[James Brown]

I want to suggest something the 2016 election does teach us: persistent, obsessive investigations pay off. In the 90s, Republicans started investigating Whitewater. Even Ken Starr knew there was nothing to this after a couple of years, but he was put under pressure to keep at it, and eventually he hit some fluke paydirt: Monica Lewinsky. This had nothing to do with Whitewater, but who cares? Scandal is scandal, and it rubbed off enough on Al Gore that Republicans took back the presidency in 2000.

Fast forward to 2012. Hillary Clinton did nothing wrong related to Benghazi. That was clear pretty quickly, but Republicans kept at it. I laughed at them at the time, but they had the last laugh when they once again hit a fluke bit of paydirt: Clinton’s private email server. Clinton didn’t really do anything seriously wrong here either, but it didn’t matter. Republicans kept at it for the next year and a half, and that was enough to convince a lot of people that Clinton was, somehow, corrupt and untrustworthy. That allowed Republicans to retake the presidency.

Link

Granted, what Mueller is doing is not a Congressional investigation, but the principle is the same.

 

[Underseer]

The investigation against Trump must stop immediately because Mueller is the one who conspired with the Russians!!!!