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Mueller investigation

Rhea said:
Help me clarify a few things:

Is this indictment “from the justice dept” from Mueller’s Grand Jury?
Is Mueller still clearly doing additional work? (I mean is there evidence/statement showing he is still at work?)
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Yes and yes.
 
ZiprHead said:
Barbos has been strangely quiet. Is he on the run? :tomato:
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No way, since this PROVES that Russia wasn't meddling in the 2016 election. :rolleyes:

I will admit for all to see that I am almost certainly among those who were fooled by some of the social media pieces they sponsored. I suspect that almost everyone else who uses social media was also duped to some extent, since it was (is) so artfully designed to appeal to virtually every form of confirmation bias they could detect. I hope the indictment itself is well-read enough to change some of the visceral rhetoric that has dominated the social landscape for the last 18+ months.
 
Elixir said:
Wow. Just... wow.
Indictment
Well worth a read.
Must be a ton of work to get such granular information.
The level of detail is amazing enough to make one wonder how much of a conspiracy case has already been assembled against the Cheato regime, or El Cheato himself.
Click to expand...

And again, like in with the Papadopolous guilty plea, not a single detail had been leaked out early and it caught everyone totally by surprise. The fact that the investigation is continuing means they must know a whole lot more. The claims by the right that this automatically exonerates anyone who hasn't been indicted yet is, to be kind, baffling.
 
Rhea said:
Help me clarify a few things:

Is this indictment “from the justice dept” from Mueller’s Grand Jury?
Is Mueller still clearly doing additional work? (I mean is there evidence/statement showing he is still at work?)
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, he still has Trump and conspiracy with the Russians to solve as well the obstruction of justice stuff.

I told my dad a few months back that Trump would be out of office by July of 2018. So come on Mueller, quit taking weekends off!
 
Artemus said:
Elixir said:
Wow. Just... wow.
Indictment
Well worth a read.
Must be a ton of work to get such granular information.
The level of detail is amazing enough to make one wonder how much of a conspiracy case has already been assembled against the Cheato regime, or El Cheato himself.
Click to expand...

And again, like in with the Papadopolous guilty plea, not a single detail had been leaked out early and it caught everyone totally by surprise. The fact that the investigation is continuing means they must know a whole lot more. The claims by the right that this automatically exonerates anyone who hasn't been indicted yet is, to be kind, baffling.
Click to expand...

They always spin.
 
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Artemus said:
Elixir said:
Wow. Just... wow.
Indictment
Well worth a read.
Must be a ton of work to get such granular information.
The level of detail is amazing enough to make one wonder how much of a conspiracy case has already been assembled against the Cheato regime, or El Cheato himself.
Click to expand...

And again, like in with the Papadopolous guilty plea, not a single detail had been leaked out early and it caught everyone totally by surprise. The fact that the investigation is continuing means they must know a whole lot more. The claims by the right that this automatically exonerates anyone who hasn't been indicted yet is, to be kind, baffling.
Click to expand...

They always spin.
Click to expand...

Desperately. I imagine what we know is only the tip of the iceberg of what Mueller's team knows.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Artemus said:
Well here is a nothing-burger:

Mueller indicts 13 Russians for interfering in US election.

TheHill said:
The indictment says that the goal of the entities and people indicted was to support now-President Trump's campaign and to hurt Democrat Hillary Clinton's, and that some defendants while posing as U.S. people communicated with "unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."
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"Unwitting" = no collusion? Maybe for these indictments. But there is that other little concern about obstruction of justice.
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The no collusion would apply to those in the Trump Campaign and these 12 Russian nationals. It does not speak to higher level collusion.
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This kind of blows Trump's meme that "the whole Russia thing is a witchhunt by the Democrats to justify their losing the elections" out of the water, doesn't it?
 
Artemus said:
Well here is a nothing-burger:

Mueller indicts 13 Russians for interfering in US election.

TheHill said:
The indictment says that the goal of the entities and people indicted was to support now-President Trump's campaign and to hurt Democrat Hillary Clinton's, and that some defendants while posing as U.S. people communicated with "unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."
Click to expand...

"Unwitting" = no collusion? Maybe for these indictments. But there is that other little concern about obstruction of justice.
Click to expand...

I have a suspicion that what Mueller is cooking is actually a "meh-burger". Few guys close to Trump get convicted and then pardoned by Trump, and that's it.
 
Artemus said:
The claims by the right that this automatically exonerates anyone who hasn't been indicted yet is, to be kind, baffling.
Click to expand...
They've been seeing this as a legal procedural TV show.
Makes sense, they voted for a TV star...

But if the bad guy isn't nailed to the wall inside of 43 minutes, not counting character development, then it's one of the 'learned a valuable lesson about life' episodes. Or, you know, a lost cause. Thus all those posts and tweets and comments through the year about 'if they haven't found their collusion BY NOW, they never will....'
 
Artemus said:
Well here is a nothing-burger:

Mueller indicts 13 Russians for interfering in US election.

TheHill said:
The indictment says that the goal of the entities and people indicted was to support now-President Trump's campaign and to hurt Democrat Hillary Clinton's, and that some defendants while posing as U.S. people communicated with "unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."
Click to expand...

"Unwitting" = no collusion? Maybe for these indictments. But there is that other little concern about obstruction of justice.
Click to expand...

"Unwitting" = they had no idea they were helping the Russians. They were indicted because what they were doing would be illegal even if done for Americans.
 
Gates flipped. Only a few dominoes left to fall. My Haiku still applies:

There's trouble ahead
Rick Gates and Paul Manafort
POPADOPOLOUS!
 
Keith&Co. said:
Artemus said:
The claims by the right that this automatically exonerates anyone who hasn't been indicted yet is, to be kind, baffling.
Click to expand...
They've been seeing this as a legal procedural TV show.
Makes sense, they voted for a TV star...

But if the bad guy isn't nailed to the wall inside of 43 minutes, not counting character development, then it's one of the 'learned a valuable lesson about life' episodes. Or, you know, a lost cause. Thus all those posts and tweets and comments through the year about 'if they haven't found their collusion BY NOW, they never will....'
Click to expand...

... 4 years of investigation to get Clinton on lying about getting a blowjob. 4 years. It was a little more than 2 years for Nixon, and they had physical evidence to work with.

Anyone (and there are a lot of people doing this) that is pushing the line that it should have been wrapped up by now - therefore witch hunt, is a lying sack of shit, or too incompetent with politics and the law to be considered.

Trump's insistence to conflate two different (but related) investigations is (more) evidence that he is a lying sack of shit, and most likely, there IS a connection between them... otherwise it would be only stupid (and not incredibly stupid) to draw such attention to the connection (between Russian activity and Trump activity).
 
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/20/politics/robert-mueller-rick-gates/index.html

"Special counsel Robert Mueller has filed a charge against a lawyer for lying to investigators about his interaction with former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates in September 2016.

Alex Van Der Zwaan is expected to plead guilty Tuesday afternoon. The filing is further evidence of Mueller's investigation of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Gates and their work for Russian-allied clients."
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Artemus said:
Well here is a nothing-burger:

Mueller indicts 13 Russians for interfering in US election.

TheHill said:
The indictment says that the goal of the entities and people indicted was to support now-President Trump's campaign and to hurt Democrat Hillary Clinton's, and that some defendants while posing as U.S. people communicated with "unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."
Click to expand...

"Unwitting" = no collusion? Maybe for these indictments. But there is that other little concern about obstruction of justice.
Click to expand...

"Unwitting" = they had no idea they were helping the Russians. They were indicted because what they were doing would be illegal even if done for Americans.
Click to expand...

I refuse to believe that bird shot could be fatal in a shooting. If I point a shotgun at you with birdshot loaded, and you end up getting killed, I was only an unwitting participant in your death. Right? I mean, it was the bird shot's fault for being unreasonably deadly. How could I possibly be held to account for something I refuse to acknowledge?
 
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