Mueller investigation

[Underseer]

• Trump and his lawyers are very worried about the Cohen investigation such that Trump hired new lawyers just for the Cohen stuff.
• The strategy for the Cohen stuff hinges on claiming attorney-client privilege to insist that the government can't and shouldn't be going through Cohen's documents and using them in a legal investigation.
• Being able to claim attorney-client privilege hinges on saying there's lots of communication between Cohen and Trump.
• Trump argued that Cohen does hardly any work for him.

So in one statement, Trump undermined the attorney-client privilege defense and made it easier for Mueller to argue in court that attorney-client privilege shouldn't apply in this case.

Trump is such a genius!

 

[Elixir]

• Trump and his lawyers are very worried about the Cohen investigation such that Trump hired new lawyers just for the Cohen stuff.
• The strategy for the Cohen stuff hinges on claiming attorney-client privilege to insist that the government can't and shouldn't be going through Cohen's documents and using them in a legal investigation.
• Being able to claim attorney-client privilege hinges on saying there's lots of communication between Cohen and Trump.
• Trump argued that Cohen does hardly any work for him.

So in one statement, Trump undermined the attorney-client privilege defense and made it easier for Mueller to argue in court that attorney-client privilege shouldn't apply in this case.

Trump is such a genius!

... and admitted that he lied when he said he didn't know about the the Stormy payola. AND admitted that he was gong to interfere with Justice Department investigations. If he was any "smarter", he'd be in a home for the easily amused.

 

[Angry Floof]

And that new legal team (Spears & Imes) are the same people who wrote the letter urging Rosenstein to launch the investigation to begin with. I'm guessing Trump doesn't yet know this or else we would have heard about it on Twitter or Fox & Friends.

When will he find out?

 

[Elixir]

When will he find out?

When Fox & Friends tell him. But at this point I doubt they're inclined to tell him ANYTHING.
What a spectacle, seeing a bevy of talk-show hosts tell the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES "we're running short on time...".
You'll never see that again if you live to be 200 years old (eating cheeseburgers of course).
Lawrence O'Donnell (iirc) observed that the command to give POTUS the hook HAD to come from Murdoch himself - nobody else in the organization has the authority to order the PRESIDENT to be shut down.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

• Trump and his lawyers are very worried about the Cohen investigation such that Trump hired new lawyers just for the Cohen stuff.
• The strategy for the Cohen stuff hinges on claiming attorney-client privilege to insist that the government can't and shouldn't be going through Cohen's documents and using them in a legal investigation.
• Being able to claim attorney-client privilege hinges on saying there's lots of communication between Cohen and Trump.
• Trump argued that Cohen does hardly any work for him.

So in one statement, Trump undermined the attorney-client privilege defense and made it easier for Mueller to argue in court that attorney-client privilege shouldn't apply in this case.

Trump is such a genius!

... and admitted that he lied when he said he didn't know about the the Stormy payola. AND admitted that he was gong to interfere with Justice Department investigations. If he was any "smarter", he'd be in a home for the easily amused.

In admitting to it, he has opened himself to the real possibility of being interviewed for the case to find out who broke what law, because anything short of Trump paying with his own money is against a law.

 

[Elixir]

• Trump and his lawyers are very worried about the Cohen investigation such that Trump hired new lawyers just for the Cohen stuff.
• The strategy for the Cohen stuff hinges on claiming attorney-client privilege to insist that the government can't and shouldn't be going through Cohen's documents and using them in a legal investigation.
• Being able to claim attorney-client privilege hinges on saying there's lots of communication between Cohen and Trump.
• Trump argued that Cohen does hardly any work for him.

So in one statement, Trump undermined the attorney-client privilege defense and made it easier for Mueller to argue in court that attorney-client privilege shouldn't apply in this case.

Trump is such a genius!

... and admitted that he lied when he said he didn't know about the the Stormy payola. AND admitted that he was gong to interfere with Justice Department investigations. If he was any "smarter", he'd be in a home for the easily amused.

In admitting to it, he has opened himself to the real possibility of being interviewed for the case to find out who broke what law, because anything short of Trump paying with his own money is against a law.

He won't allow a deposition - probably heard the word "deposed" and only knows definition #1:

de·pose
dəˈpōz/
verb
past tense: deposed; past participle: deposed

1.
remove from office suddenly and forcefully.
"he had been deposed by a military coup"
synonyms: overthrow, unseat, dethrone, topple, remove, supplant, displace; More
dismiss, oust, drum out, throw out, expel, eject;
informalchuck out, boot out, get rid of, show someone the door
"the president was deposed"
2.
Law
testify to or give (evidence) on oath, typically in a written statement.
"every affidavit shall state which of the facts deposed to are within the deponent's knowledge"
synonyms: swear, testify, attest, assert, declare, claim
"a witness deposed that he had seen me"
3.
Law
question (a witness) in deposition.

 

[Angry Floof]

I love Rachel's face there.

I also think the Fox & Friends "interview" of Donald Trump as he wandered around the White House all alone in his robe rummaging in the kitchen for snacks with the phone to his ear probably deserves its own thread. We could make it a game thread to find all the ways Trump screwed himself in that half hour.

Where was everybody in Trump's camp? Is there anyone other than Fox News and the White House not talking about this? Have all his people simultaneously given up on trying to protect him or are they all just stunned into silence or scrambling to figure out how to handle this?

• Trump and his lawyers are very worried about the Cohen investigation such that Trump hired new lawyers just for the Cohen stuff.
• The strategy for the Cohen stuff hinges on claiming attorney-client privilege to insist that the government can't and shouldn't be going through Cohen's documents and using them in a legal investigation.
• Being able to claim attorney-client privilege hinges on saying there's lots of communication between Cohen and Trump.
• Trump argued that Cohen does hardly any work for him.

So in one statement, Trump undermined the attorney-client privilege defense and made it easier for Mueller to argue in court that attorney-client privilege shouldn't apply in this case.

Trump is such a genius!

 

[Elixir]

Where was everybody in Trump's camp? Is there anyone other than Fox News and the White House not talking about this? Have all his people simultaneously given up on trying to protect him or are they all just stunned into silence or scrambling to figure out how to handle this?

Usually Hannity, has his hand up Trump's butt moving the mouth, while his other hand controls the strings that produce Trump's signature flailing arm motions. But Hannity is probably hiding under the bed right now, trembling in fear that Mikey Cohen's recordings might hit MSNBC at any moment.

 

[Copernicus]

That phone call to Fox & Friends showed very clearly that Trump would fire Rosenstein and Mueller in a heartbeat, if he thought he could get away with it. If Republicans are lucky, Trump will hold off until after the November elections, but I don't see them actually coming close to impeaching Trump. When those elections are over, Trump will very likely start issuing pardons and shutting down investigations. There will be no check on him, if Republicans manage to retain both houses of Congress. Even if the Democrats win both houses, they may not have enough votes to do anything but pass a censure motion. The problem for Republicans is that Trump November is a long way off, and Trump is feeling less and less constrained.

 

[Elixir]

That phone call to Fox & Friends showed very clearly that Trump would fire Rosenstein and Mueller in a heartbeat, if he thought he could get away with it. If Republicans are lucky, Trump will hold off until after the November elections, but I don't see them actually coming close to impeaching Trump. When those elections are over, Trump will very likely start issuing pardons and shutting down investigations. There will be no check on him, if Republicans manage to retain both houses of Congress. Even if the Democrats win both houses, they may not have enough votes to do anything but pass a censure motion. The problem for Republicans is that Trump November is a long way off, and Trump is feeling less and less constrained.

Assuming that the 70% of Americans surveyed believe Trump will fire Mueller are correct, what's the best outcome you could foresee?
Q2: If Trump does go pardon-crazy, doesn't that kill off any 5th amendment plea by the people he pardons if they are subpoenaed to testify? Why would Trump do that?

 

[Copernicus]

That phone call to Fox & Friends showed very clearly that Trump would fire Rosenstein and Mueller in a heartbeat, if he thought he could get away with it. If Republicans are lucky, Trump will hold off until after the November elections, but I don't see them actually coming close to impeaching Trump. When those elections are over, Trump will very likely start issuing pardons and shutting down investigations. There will be no check on him, if Republicans manage to retain both houses of Congress. Even if the Democrats win both houses, they may not have enough votes to do anything but pass a censure motion. The problem for Republicans is that Trump November is a long way off, and Trump is feeling less and less constrained.

Assuming that the 70% of Americans surveyed believe Trump will fire Mueller are correct, what's the best outcome you could foresee?
Q2: If Trump does go pardon-crazy, doesn't that kill off any 5th amendment plea by the people he pardons if they are subpoenaed to testify? Why would Trump do that?

Q1: I think that Republicans in Congress will buck popular opinion, if they believe that they will lose elections by alienating the Trump-besotted portion of their base. That has been the problem all along. They can't oppose Trump and still stay in power. A batshit crazy Trump does make it difficult to get reelected anyway, but their conventional wisdom seems to be that a move to impeach will result in certain death, whereas a lesser act of censure (or no action) renders them still survivable. The best outcome would be impeachment and removal, but I consider it unlikely.

Q2: It is debatable whether a pardon would extend to possible charges brought by state prosecutions, so I suspect they'll still cling to 5th Amendment rights. And Trump can just keep pardoning away as much as he pleases. Only Congress can stop him from abusing power, and they don't want to go down that path. Also, it is hard to prove that witnesses recall what they claim not to recall, so there is usually a way to avoid answering questions under oath. Politicians have brains made out of Swiss cheese when it comes to remembering that they did something wrong.

 

[Artemus]

Mueller has reportedly threatened Trump with a subpoena if he refuses a voluntary interview. Let's hope it happens, and soon.

 

[Opoponax]

Mueller has reportedly threatened Trump with a subpoena if he refuses a voluntary interview. Let's hope it happens, and soon.

Trump being directly questioned by Mueller?

Something something perjury level needs scientific notation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think nothing would scare a lawyer more than a client like Trump getting questioned alone, by Mueller in front of a Grand Jury. Hence the "voluntary" route is the only feasible one.

Trump is so unhinged, Mueller probably could link Trump to the disappearance of Hoffa and the Lindbergh kidnapping.

 

[Sarpedon]

Can't a person being interviewed by the grand jury have their lawyer present? It would shock me if they couldn't.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Trump is so unhinged, Mueller probably could link Trump to the disappearance of Hoffa and the Lindbergh kidnapping.

"Your honor, prosecution asked leading questions, we request that everything after Mueller's first question be stricken from the record."
"Mr. Mueller, what was your first question?"
"Your honor, I asked, 'Mr. Trump, are you aware that the tape is running?' Then I just sat back."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump is so unhinged, Mueller probably could link Trump to the disappearance of Hoffa and the Lindbergh kidnapping.

"Your honor, prosecution asked leading questions, we request that everything after Mueller's first question be stricken from the record."
"Mr. Mueller, what was your first question?"
"Your honor, I asked, 'Mr. Trump, are you aware that the tape is running?' Then I just sat back."

In a Grand Jury, I don't believe Trump even gets a lawyer.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Trump is so unhinged, Mueller probably could link Trump to the disappearance of Hoffa and the Lindbergh kidnapping.

"Your honor, prosecution asked leading questions, we request that everything after Mueller's first question be stricken from the record."
"Mr. Mueller, what was your first question?"
"Your honor, I asked, 'Mr. Trump, are you aware that the tape is running?' Then I just sat back."

Gold!

 

[Copernicus]

Trump can plead the 5th amendment, even though he has famously mocked others for taking the 5th. Everybody not on Fox News faults Trump for hypocrisy and reversing himself, but there are no serious consequences as long as Congress refuses to consider impeachment proceedings. The question of whether a sitting President can be compelled to testify by subpoena has never been tested by the legal process, although it almost was with Clinton. (Bill Clinton testified voluntarily.) So the subpoena threat sounds good, but it probably won't go anywhere.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Trump can plead the 5th amendment, even though he has famously mocked others for taking the 5th. Everybody not on Fox News faults Trump for hypocrisy and reversing himself, but there are no serious consequences as long as Congress refuses to consider impeachment proceedings. The question of whether a sitting President can be compelled to testify by subpoena has never been tested by the legal process, although it almost was with Clinton. (Bill Clinton testified voluntarily.) So the subpoena threat sounds good, but it probably won't go anywhere.

I'm unfamiliar with the intricacies of your country's legal system. Why is the question of whether a President can be compelled to testify something that's untested? I get that it's something which has never happened, but what's the rationale as to why he couldn't be? My first thought would be that it has something to do with the separation of powers or the like, but there have been Congressmen sent to jail, so it doesn't seem like being an elected member of one of the other branches gives you any sort of immunity from the judicial branch.