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My Vision Of Gun Control In The USA

It stands to reason that making it more difficult to get guns means that fewer people will have access to fewer guns because it is pretty much a law of the universe that increasing the difficulty (i.e. cost) of obtaining something tends to reduce the amount of that something.

If it was as easy to make your own firearm as people suggest, why aren't firearms much less expensive? Hmmm.
 
Hand guns even semiautomatic pistols are easy to make in a basement or garage.
This. Even without a modern printer, who could not afford to buy a lathe and/or metal working mill?

Ziphead take notice all your do gooding laws which will not affect criminals in the least. And at best, might cause inconvenience for a shooter crazy in the head.

But at worst, guaranteed to increase government and reduce freedom for everyone else.
Yes, of course, because all criminals are the same. :rolleyes:
 
This will make it much harder for them to get weapons in the first place and will discourage some from trying to. You're trying to make perfect the enemy of the good.
Well, you haven't even shown that it will be good. There are a lot of areas already with strict gun laws on the books for years, and it has not slowed violent crimes. Chicago for one example. One could argue that it might make law abiding citizens more vulnerable, since they have to have their guns locked away while at home, making it tougher to access their gun during a break-in, while a thug has his weapon in hand. What if your gun safe is in another room that is behind the thug? The laws might make gun ownership so daunting, cumbersome and expensive that people may just say "fuck it" and do without any sort of protection.
 
Well, you haven't even shown that it will be good. There are a lot of areas already with strict gun laws on the books for years, and it has not slowed violent crimes. Chicago for one example.
Thank God. I was wondering when Chicago was going to get mentioned.

What if your gun safe is in another room that is behind the thug?
What if it happens on a Tuesday and the guy's name is Marvin?

Seeing as we like just rehashing the same argument over and over, I'll repeat mine - a lever action .30-30 is all you need for self defense. You don't need something more advanced than what was used to storm the beaches in Normandy on D-Day. Your life isn't that stressful.
 
It stands to reason that making it more difficult to get guns means that fewer people will have access to fewer guns because it is pretty much a law of the universe that increasing the difficulty (i.e. cost) of obtaining something tends to reduce the amount of that something.

If it was as easy to make your own firearm as people suggest, why aren't firearms much less expensive? Hmmm.
This.

Personally, I own a 3d printer and a casting/smelting furnace, and I could, if I wanted to, make a lathe, mill, drill press, and rifling machine for a few hundred to a thousand dollars and probably twice as many hours of labor.

The idea of doing all of that work just to make unregistered guns just so that the first gun you make to be used in a crime comes back to you, because it's clearly a home-machined gun and there's no way to hide the fact you're operating a full metal industry in your back yard in the inner city?

Or worse to see it explode in someone's face because you need to both learn how to, and successfully execute a heat treat, which requires ANOTHER furnace beyond the casting furnace, and even more education?

Trying to get a lathe any other way will cost you more than 3 guns worth of time and effort.

Using that lathe for that purpose will just as quickly land someone in jail for unlicensed firearms manufacturing.

Weaponsmithing is not an easy discipline to break into, and NOBODY does it to casually manufacture guns for criminals. You can make 10x as much selling to the open market, and if you really have a boner for crime, you can rest assured that at least some of the guns you make and stamp your mark on will kill someone who didn't deserve it... Probably more than the ones that do.
 
On topic, what are the laws with regards to election campaign ads? Because stopping politicians using guns as an election prop could show gun owners take their responsibilities seriously. And it would put an end to asinine crap like this;



and this,

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and this;



Maybe if you force legislators to start acting like adults around the things, they might be inclined to treat them seriously as well.
 
Weaponsmithing is not an easy discipline to break into, and NOBODY does it to casually manufacture guns for criminals. You can make 10x as much selling to the open market, and if you really have a boner for crime, you can rest assured that at least some of the guns you make and stamp your mark on will kill someone who didn't deserve it... Probably more than the ones that do.

0*9-ThAR-wqgf4lyv7.png


In case anyone has difficulty reading the date on the side, this came out in 2013.
 
Weaponsmithing is not an easy discipline to break into, and NOBODY does it to casually manufacture guns for criminals. You can make 10x as much selling to the open market, and if you really have a boner for crime, you can rest assured that at least some of the guns you make and stamp your mark on will kill someone who didn't deserve it... Probably more than the ones that do.

0*9-ThAR-wqgf4lyv7.png
Pretty much. For the record, it would take about 5 hours per part to print, and that's assuming a "fast" UV resin printer like mine.

Even then, I think you would want to reinforce the barrel part with kevlar, or a metal pipe around it, or something.

I would trust it more than I would trust a filament printer, but that's not saying very much.

One bubble and it would probably kill the shit out of you. No thanks!

One day of time and work for a gun that MIGHT not kill you, and no practical way to lower the possibility... Is it worth it? No it is not.

At best they would be good for mounting on a drone.

Also, they would find you. Because it's from a 3d printer. And those are tracked.
 
Your vision is great. Try getting it implemented! The NRA is dominated by the gun industry; they don’t give a damn about gun owners. They care about selling more guns. Most of their funding comes from dealers and manufacturers, not owners.

They’ve just ginned up fear to sell more guns. And in turn they control the Republican Party
 
Well, you haven't even shown that it will be good. There are a lot of areas already with strict gun laws on the books for years, and it has not slowed violent crimes. Chicago for one example.
Ah, Chicago. that city with tough gun laws surrounded by areas with lax gun laws.
A University of Chicago study has noted that, during the COVID-19 pandemic, Chicago police officers made fewer street stops and traffic stops in 2021 than they did in 2020, but the number of illegal guns they recovered went up. According to the researchers, that indicates gun carrying rose during the pandemic — which might also explain some of the disparity between Chicago’s higher gun-trace numbers than found elsewhere.


The ATF report shows 9mm pistols — manufactured by Glock, Taurus and Smith & Wesson — were the firearms most often traced in Chicago. That also was true in other big cities.

One concern is that Glocks and other handguns are easily converted into automatic weapons with illegal switches — easy-to-obtain devices to turn semi-automatic pistols into easy to conceal machine guns — which have proliferated in Chicago and elsewhere in recent years.


In Chicago, most of the traced guns, about 16,500 of them, were bought from somewhere within Illinois, with about 8,200 more coming from Indiana. Wisconsin, Kentucky and Mississippi each was the source of fewer than 2,000 guns.

By contrast, few guns recovered in crimes in New York were originally purchased there. The biggest sources for those guns were Georgia, South Carolina and Virginia.

Brandon del Pozo, a Brown University researcher, notes that New York and the states that surround it all have stringent gun laws.
 
Well, you haven't even shown that it will be good. There are a lot of areas already with strict gun laws on the books for years, and it has not slowed violent crimes. Chicago for one example.
Ah, Chicago. that city with tough gun laws surrounded by areas with lax gun laws.
A University of Chicago study has noted that, during the COVID-19 pandemic, Chicago police officers made fewer street stops and traffic stops in 2021 than they did in 2020, but the number of illegal guns they recovered went up. According to the researchers, that indicates gun carrying rose during the pandemic — which might also explain some of the disparity between Chicago’s higher gun-trace numbers than found elsewhere.


The ATF report shows 9mm pistols — manufactured by Glock, Taurus and Smith & Wesson — were the firearms most often traced in Chicago. That also was true in other big cities.

One concern is that Glocks and other handguns are easily converted into automatic weapons with illegal switches — easy-to-obtain devices to turn semi-automatic pistols into easy to conceal machine guns — which have proliferated in Chicago and elsewhere in recent years.


In Chicago, most of the traced guns, about 16,500 of them, were bought from somewhere within Illinois, with about 8,200 more coming from Indiana. Wisconsin, Kentucky and Mississippi each was the source of fewer than 2,000 guns.

By contrast, few guns recovered in crimes in New York were originally purchased there. The biggest sources for those guns were Georgia, South Carolina and Virginia.

Brandon del Pozo, a Brown University researcher, notes that New York and the states that surround it all have stringent gun laws.
You can be sure that when someone in the GOP makes a claim about a thing failing somewhere, they're usually leaving something really important out.
 
If only there was another country, somewhere in the developed world, where the problem of gun violence had been largely solved.

Then, instead of all the idle speculation about how this law or that law couldn't possibly be effective because of hypothetical problems, you could just look at what actually worked, and apply similar laws to those used in countries where school shootings, workplace shootings, gun violence, and accidental gun deaths are less common than they are in the USA.

But obviously, there's no suitable country to copy.


 
Well, you haven't even shown that it will be good. There are a lot of areas already with strict gun laws on the books for years, and it has not slowed violent crimes. Chicago for one example.
Ah, Chicago. that city with tough gun laws surrounded by areas with lax gun laws.
A University of Chicago study has noted that, during the COVID-19 pandemic, Chicago police officers made fewer street stops and traffic stops in 2021 than they did in 2020, but the number of illegal guns they recovered went up. According to the researchers, that indicates gun carrying rose during the pandemic — which might also explain some of the disparity between Chicago’s higher gun-trace numbers than found elsewhere.


The ATF report shows 9mm pistols — manufactured by Glock, Taurus and Smith & Wesson — were the firearms most often traced in Chicago. That also was true in other big cities.

One concern is that Glocks and other handguns are easily converted into automatic weapons with illegal switches — easy-to-obtain devices to turn semi-automatic pistols into easy to conceal machine guns — which have proliferated in Chicago and elsewhere in recent years.


In Chicago, most of the traced guns, about 16,500 of them, were bought from somewhere within Illinois, with about 8,200 more coming from Indiana. Wisconsin, Kentucky and Mississippi each was the source of fewer than 2,000 guns.

By contrast, few guns recovered in crimes in New York were originally purchased there. The biggest sources for those guns were Georgia, South Carolina and Virginia.

Brandon del Pozo, a Brown University researcher, notes that New York and the states that surround it all have stringent gun laws.
Well, that kind of supports my original point, does it not? Instead of criminals complying with Chicago's stricter gun laws, they found alternatives to get their gun fix. Just like they might do with your well meaning, but as yet unproven solution. Seems to me that if you decide you want to make restrictive laws, you should consider ways in which people can subvert the law. We have/had some pretty strict federal laws in this country regarding possession of marijuana, hard drugs and alcohol (Prohibition, anyone?) over the years, and yet its never been very difficult for any schmo to use or distribute those, because there are always those willing to risk fines or jail, either out of greed or stupidity.
 
Well, that kind of supports my original point, does it not? Instead of criminals complying with Chicago's stricter gun laws, they found alternatives to get their gun fix. Just like they might do with your well meaning, but as yet unproven solution. Seems to me that if you decide you want to make restrictive laws, you should consider ways in which people can subvert the law. We have/had some pretty strict federal laws in this country regarding possession of marijuana, hard drugs and alcohol (Prohibition, anyone?) over the years, and yet its never been very difficult for any schmo to use or distribute those, because there are always those willing to risk fines or jail, either out of greed or stupidity.
By that logic we should just make murder legal because there are still people who will kill others. o_O
 
Well, that kind of supports my original point, does it not? Instead of criminals complying with Chicago's stricter gun laws, they found alternatives to get their gun fix. Just like they might do with your well meaning, but as yet unproven solution. Seems to me that if you decide you want to make restrictive laws, you should consider ways in which people can subvert the law. We have/had some pretty strict federal laws in this country regarding possession of marijuana, hard drugs and alcohol (Prohibition, anyone?) over the years, and yet its never been very difficult for any schmo to use or distribute those, because there are always those willing to risk fines or jail, either out of greed or stupidity.
By that logic we should just make murder legal because there are still people who will kill others. o_O
No matter how many times this thread happens, this exchange happens.

A place surrounded with lax gun laws but that itself has strict laws will still fare better than a place surrounded by such that shares such lax laws.

Republican messaging is going to always be missing context.
 
For a start you could consider enforcing the laws you already have in place instead of complaining how hard it is to do do.

Canada, Israel, Switzerland are countries that have high gun ownership rates yet do not have your problems? Why?
1. They do not hate each other as much as you yanks appear to do do (though Israel is at a point at the moment where that could change).
2. They are not as stupid as you yanks are (sorry to be blunt)
 
For a start you could consider enforcing the laws you already have in place instead of complaining how hard it is to do do.

Canada, Israel, Switzerland are countries that have high gun ownership rates yet do not have your problems? Why?
1. They do not hate each other as much as you yanks appear to do do (though Israel is at a point at the moment where that could change).
2. They are not as stupid as you yanks are (sorry to be blunt)
There are more than three times the number of guns per person in the US than in ANY of the Countries you cite as having “high gun ownership”. If those countries have “high gun ownership“, the U.S. has batshit crazy gun ownership, and much of it is in the hands of batshit crazy people. Other causes are trivial, including lack of enforcement of current laws.
 
For a start you could consider enforcing the laws you already have in place instead of complaining how hard it is to do do.
As many shootings have shown it isn’t lack of enforcement of existing laws that is at the root cause of the shootings. Everyone is a law-abiding citizen until the moment they first violate the law. If that first moment is shooting in a school with an AR-15 then no existing law could stop that.
 
For a start you could consider enforcing the laws you already have in place instead of complaining how hard it is to do do.
As many shootings have shown it isn’t lack of enforcement of existing laws that is at the root cause of the shootings. Everyone is a law-abiding citizen until the moment they first violate the law. If that first moment is shooting in a school with an AR-15 then no existing law could stop that.
So any possible solution is just too hard is it?
 
Yesterday afternoon at the busy intersection of Pine and Brodway in Seattle which I walk through several times a week to go grocery shopping, the driver of a car was shot and killed and the kid in the car was hit. A handgun was recovered nearby but no suspect. This has become routine.

Armed robberies that are caught on surveillance video are with handguns.

There are shootings with rifles but nearly as much as handguns.

Recently a Tacoma gun buy back program got sevral hindred guns claimed to be a success, but I doubt any of them were from criminals or unstable people.

These days around here if you respond aggressively to aggressive driving you can risk your life. From local surveys civility is diminishing and hostility rising, being expressed increasing with violence.

In the recent Tenn shooting I believe the shooter got the multiple guns legally. There are other examples of that.

If yiu think we can regulate our way out of this problem you may not undertsnd the compexity.

Should we require psychiatric approval to own a gun with periodic checks to maintain ownership? Who sets the profile for risk?

Shold parents be held criminally and civilly liable if a kid gets a parent's gun and shoots somebody? To that I say absolutely. Same if a kid gets a gun somewhere and uses it. Put the fear of god into the parents over the actions of their kids, then you might see some changes to youth gun violence.
 
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