North and South Koreas are normalizing relation

[bilby]

According to the President, who declared peace a while ago, says the meeting could turn out well or poorly. He is a sage!

He looks more like an onion to me. But either way, we're all stuffed.

 

[Ford]

Is it me, or does it seem like the only reason the US is about to have a summit with NK is because the President of the former sees the President of the latter as a kindred spirit?

Trump talked tough with the "Little Rocket Man" thing, but now that Kim is willing to talk, he's like "oh you little scamp...let's be friends! You hate dissent? Me too!"

 

[Trausti]

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Trump should win the Nobel Peace Prize, says South Korea's Moon

Wellll...

Moon’s Nobel Prize comment came in response to a congratulatory message from Lee Hee-ho, the widow of late South Korean President Kim Dae-jung, in which she said Moon deserved to win the prize, the Blue House official said.

Moon responded by saying Trump should get it.

Not sure if a secondary account of a humble, self-deprecating response to a compliment from a revered widow of an even more revered dead former President constitutes any kind of official declaration or anything, but we get it; you need to take your wins where you can get them.

But you know what would really be hilarious? If NK kidnapped Trump at the “meeting.”

But what’s more likely the case, of course, is what several others have already pointed out; that NK went broke chasing after big boy nukes and then—hilariously—destroyed their own nuclear program by mistake playing with big boy nukes. And are now totally fucked.

What no one has thought of, however, is that NK is also probably getting serious heat from China—who are now trade partners with Russia—to finally give Trump his “moment” that was supposed to have come from Russia in regard to Syria. Twice, no less and both times Trump forewarned them of the attacks and we not only ended up killing a lot of civilians, but there is strong evidence that the alleged reason behind them was false (or a false flag).

That’s best case and assuming NK isn’t just fucking around.

Oh, and here’s some more fun. Anyone remember this: UN Links North Korea to Syria’s Chemical Weapons Program and/or the fact that Russia helped Syria build its chemical weapons program back in the seventies?

Russia, China and NK all benefitting from Trump staying in the Oval. One thing’s for sure, if Trump was somehow awarded the Nobel for not actually doing anything like Obama, it’s a sure bet he won’t be giving his unearned prize money to charity like Obama. Then he’d finally be a millionaire again. Well, until he had to give it over to his creditors.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hooray! Three people kidnapped by North Korea returned by North Korea.

So was the treaty signed yet?

 

[arkirk]

I believe that Trump indeed has scared them, and they are beginning to realize they need to be closer together because nuclear holocaust in North Korea would spell total calamity in South Korea. This situation has always been the maintaining of tensions by the U.S. military. Trump may have scared them, but that does not mean he intended for them to make peace. That will ultimately lead to South Korea asking the Americans to leave...probably a good idea, but definitely not one Trump planned on.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I believe that Trump indeed has scared them, and they are beginning to realize they need to be closer together because nuclear holocaust in North Korea would spell total calamity in South Korea. This situation has always been the maintaining of tensions by the U.S. military. Trump may have scared them, but that does not mean he intended for them to make peace. That will ultimately lead to South Korea asking the Americans to leave...probably a good idea, but definitely not one Trump planned on.

I didn’t reallize there was a Nobel for Sabre rattling.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I believe that Trump indeed has scared them, and they are beginning to realize they need to be closer together because nuclear holocaust in North Korea would spell total calamity in South Korea. This situation has always been the maintaining of tensions by the U.S. military. Trump may have scared them, but that does not mean he intended for them to make peace. That will ultimately lead to South Korea asking the Americans to leave...probably a good idea, but definitely not one Trump planned on.

I didn’t reallize there was a Nobel for Sabre rattling.

Yeah, I was thinking about this... what did Trump do that mattered?

July 4 2017 - North Korea claims it has conducted its first successful test of an intercontinental ballistic missile, or ICBM, that can "reach anywhere in the world."

North Korea has just launched another missile. Does this guy have anything better to do with his life? Hard to believe that South Korea and Japan will put up with this much longer. Perhaps China will put a heavy move on North Korea and end this nonsense once and for all!

Trade between China and North Korea grew almost 40% in the first quarter. So much for China working with us - but we had to give it a try!

They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen.

Relating to his 8/8/17 statement:

If anything, maybe that statement wasn't tough enough

September 3, 2017 - North Korea carries out its sixth test of a nuclear weapon, causing a 6.3 magnitude seismic event, as measured by the United States Geological Survey. Pyongyang claims the device is a hydrogen bomb that could be mounted on an intercontinental missile. A nuclear weapons monitoring group describes the weapon as up to eight times stronger than the bomb dropped in Hiroshima in 1945. In response to the test, Trump tweets that North Korea continues to be "very hostile and dangerous to the United States." He goes on the criticize South Korea, claiming that the country is engaging in "talk of appeasement" with its neighbor to the north. He also says that North Korea is "an embarrassment to China," claiming Beijing is having little success reining in the Kim regime.

I spoke with President Moon of South Korea last night. Asked him how Rocket Man is doing. Long gas lines forming in North Korea. Too bad!

{the US would} totally destroy North Korea

​

Kim Jong Un of North Korea, who is obviously a madman who doesn't mind starving or killing his people, will be tested like never before!

Why would Kim Jong-un insult me by calling me "old," when I would NEVER call him "short and fat?" Oh well, I try so hard to be his friend - and maybe someday that will happen!

November 28, 2017 - North Korea announces ability to reach mainland United States.

Just spoke to President XI JINPING of China concerning the provocative actions of North Korea. Additional major sanctions will be imposed on North Korea today. This situation will be handled!

The Chinese Envoy, who just returned from North Korea, seems to have had no impact on Little Rocket Man. Hard to believe his people, and the military, put up with living in such horrible conditions. Russia and China condemned the launch.

North Korean Leader Kim Jong Un just stated that the “Nuclear Button is on his desk at all times.” Will someone from his depleted and food starved regime please inform him that I too have a Nuclear Button, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than his, and my Button works!

April 26, 2018 - North Korean nuclear testing site very well may have collapsed.

Yeah, you look at the timeline, and you seriously have to ask yourself... what exactly did Trump do that could have possibly mattered? At what point did North Korea start caring about what Trump said or did? Because, it isn't in the timeline by their actions.

Up till now, it seems the US (Trump) was more of an observer than anything else. Yeah, three prisoners were returned. That is nice, but it isn't exactly the same as disarming a nuclear arsenal, regardless how small. Trump continued to demand China, Japan, South Korea solve the problem, belittled them when it wasn't solved... and ultimately the most forceful thing Trump did was enact obvious sanctions on North Korea. And people want to talk Nobel Prize? The historic meeting with Kim Jong Un?

Trump (with a bit of privilege): My historic meeting with Kim Jong Un will be truly historical. No other President has managed to meet with the North Korean leader. I don't know, maybe they didn't know the phone number or something, but I... I looked it up. Truly historical in its historicalness.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

And, again, China had little previous interest in reigning them in, but then, suddenly with their trade deal with Russia (after having divested themselves from oil dependency over the past few years coinciding exclusively to the discovery of the Russian oil fields and what that portends), now this.

 

[Elixir]

Yeah, three prisoners were returned.

In return, the US is reduced to the stature of North Korea, and Kim Jong Un is elevated to equal stature with the President of the United States.
That, my friends, is what Cheato calls a "Great Deal". And it is - for Kim. That kind of power shift would normally require Kim to kill at least a few tens of thousands of US troops, and all he had to do was turn over three people who he probably had a hard time keeping alive anyhow.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yeah, three prisoners were returned.

In return, the US is reduced to the stature of North Korea, and Kim Jong Un is elevated to equal stature with the President of the United States.
That, my friends, is what Cheato calls a "Great Deal". And it is - for Kim. That kind of power shift would normally require Kim to kill at least a few tens of thousands of US troops, and all he had to do was turn over three people who he probably had a hard time keeping alive anyhow.

Kim: We'll give up our nukes if you leave the DMZ.
Trump: Sure, that sounds *dog pile of US, South Korean, Japanese diplomats on top of Trump*

 

[arkirk]

Yeah, three prisoners were returned.

In return, the US is reduced to the stature of North Korea, and Kim Jong Un is elevated to equal stature with the President of the United States.
That, my friends, is what Cheato calls a "Great Deal". And it is - for Kim. That kind of power shift would normally require Kim to kill at least a few tens of thousands of US troops, and all he had to do was turn over three people who he probably had a hard time keeping alive anyhow.

Kim: We'll give up our nukes if you leave the DMZ.
Trump: Sure, that sounds *dog pile of US, South Korean, Japanese diplomats on top of Trump*

The DMZ (DeMilitarized Zone) is an oxymoron. If the U.S. leaves the DMZ and the Koreas start to get along with each other, that would amount to Demilitarizing the Demilitarized Zone. Then it would no longer be an oxymoron, but we would still have our Moron President.

 

[Copernicus]

I think that the rapprochement between the Koreas is a good thing, but the threat Korea poses is not from its nuclear program. It is from the conventional weapons pointed at Seoul. Kim doesn't need a nuclear strike to wipe out Seoul. Kim only had a nuclear program for one reason--to use as a bargaining chip with the US. He certainly wasn't about to start a nuclear war with his few bombs and missiles, because the Chinese would likely attack him anyway. They said as much. Besides, the US would obliterate him.

So what has happened here is that Kim has the most sympathetic South Korean administration since the beginning of the war. Moon is a liberal "peacenik", who vowed to seek peaceful relations with the North. Kim's nuclear program had actually become a liability, since it had pissed off his main benefactor--China--and frightened the international community into isolating him even further. Hence, he decided to cash in his bargaining chip, and Trump jumped at the chance of his offer to meet. That gives Kim international recognition that he has always craved but never had in the past. This could not be a better move for him, since he is getting far more leverage with the international community than he probably ever hoped to get. The worst case scenario is that he has to give up a nuclear weapons program that he could not afford to maintain and that he never planned to use. He still retains his formidable military and will likely see most sanctions evaporate. He is being hailed as a peacemaker now.

Meanwhile, in the US, Donald Trump is being seen as someone who pulled off a major diplomatic coup. This will help his popularity a great deal, given that he has created such low expectations in being able to do anything positive for US foreign policy. This will help to stem the "blue wave" midterms that have been threatening to sink Republicans.

What next? Well, it is pretty obvious that Trump has no long term vision for US foreign relations other than to bully other nations into complying with his vision of "America First". So the momentum is with Kim. What is his long game? He has achieved some pretty impressive short term gains. He wants US troops dislodged from the South, so I expect most of his moves to be pointed in that direction. That will give him even more leverage over his southern neighbor. It also aligns with China's goal of prying US military assets out of the region and taking control of commercial shipping lanes, which is part of the South China Sea strategy.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think that the rapprochement between the Koreas is a good thing, but the threat Korea poses is not from its nuclear program. It is from the conventional weapons pointed at Seoul. Kim doesn't need a nuclear strike to wipe out Seoul. Kim only had a nuclear program for one reason--to use as a bargaining chip with the US. He certainly wasn't about to start a nuclear war with his few bombs and missiles, because the Chinese would likely attack him anyway. They said as much. Besides, the US would obliterate him.

So what has happened here is that Kim has the most sympathetic South Korean administration since the beginning of the war. Moon is a liberal "peacenik", who vowed to seek peaceful relations with the North. Kim's nuclear program had actually become a liability, since it had pissed off his main benefactor--China--and frightened the international community into isolating him even further. Hence, he decided to cash in his bargaining chip, and Trump jumped at the chance of his offer to meet. That gives Kim international recognition that he has always craved but never had in the past. This could not be a better move for him, since he is getting far more leverage with the international community than he probably ever hoped to get. The worst case scenario is that he has to give up a nuclear weapons program that he could not afford to maintain and that he never planned to use. He still retains his formidable military and will likely see most sanctions evaporate. He is being hailed as a peacemaker now.

Meanwhile, in the US, Donald Trump is being seen as someone who pulled off a major diplomatic coup. This will help his popularity a great deal, given that he has created such low expectations in being able to do anything positive for US foreign policy. This will help to stem the "blue wave" midterms that have been threatening to sink Republicans.

What next? Well, it is pretty obvious that Trump has no long term vision for US foreign relations other than to bully other nations into complying with his vision of "America First". So the momentum is with Kim. What is his long game? He has achieved some pretty impressive short term gains. He wants US troops dislodged from the South, so I expect most of his moves to be pointed in that direction. That will give him even more leverage over his southern neighbor. It also aligns with China's goal of prying US military assets out of the region and taking control of commercial shipping lanes, which is part of the South China Sea strategy.

And interestingly we're now hearing that the US will help rebuild North Korea. No doubt that means expanding US markets and investing in cheap labor.

I think Trump's "America First" means american corporations first.

 

[Copernicus]

I can see us dumping a lot of US taxpayer dollars into the pockets of corrupt party and Kim family officials. There will be improvements to the lives of ordinary North Koreans, but I doubt that US efforts to "rebuild" North Korea will be anything like what Pompeo and Trump envision. China has already essentially lifted sanctions against North Korea, effective immediately. Goods are beginning to flow across the border into North Korea, as Kim meets Xi Jinping for a second time (See Kim Jong-un meets Xi Jinping in second surprise visit to China). The US will have no leverage whatsoever to negotiate anything out of Kim, who just needs to maintain an appearance of someone genuinely interested in peace. Xi and Kim are on the same page in working out a strategy. Trump has John Bolton.

With the US being shoved to the sidelines in Asia policy, both China and Russia are moving quickly to capitalize on the disarray caused by Trump's decision to pull out of the Iran deal. That has caused a huge rift in US-European relations, with John Bolton now saying that the US could try to sanction European businesses that deal with Iran. We are headed for some very rough times in international relations.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I can see us dumping a lot of US taxpayer dollars into the pockets of corrupt party and Kim family officials. There will be improvements to the lives of ordinary North Koreans, but I doubt that US efforts to "rebuild" North Korea will be anything like what Pompeo and Trump envision. China has already essentially lifted sanctions against North Korea, effective immediately. Goods are beginning to flow across the border into North Korea, as Kim meets Xi Jiping for a second time (See Kim Jong-un meets Xi Jinping in second surprise visit to China). The US will have no leverage whatsoever to negotiate anything out of Kim, who just needs to maintain an appearance of someone genuinely interested in peace. Xi and Kim are on the same page in working out a strategy. Trump has John Bolton.

With the US being shoved to the sidelines in Asia policy, both China and Russia are moving quickly to capitalize on the disarray caused by Trump's decision to pull out of the Iran deal. That has caused a huge rift in US-European relations, with John Bolton now saying that the US could try to sanction European businesses that deal with Iran. We are headed for some very rough times in international relations.

Yup. This is just loot for their government, not help for their people. And the peace will only last as long as the danegeld flows.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I think that the rapprochement between the Koreas is a good thing, but the threat Korea poses is not from its nuclear program. It is from the conventional weapons pointed at Seoul. Kim doesn't need a nuclear strike to wipe out Seoul. Kim only had a nuclear program for one reason--to use as a bargaining chip with the US. He certainly wasn't about to start a nuclear war with his few bombs and missiles, because the Chinese would likely attack him anyway. They said as much. Besides, the US would obliterate him.

So what has happened here is that Kim has the most sympathetic South Korean administration since the beginning of the war. Moon is a liberal "peacenik", who vowed to seek peaceful relations with the North. Kim's nuclear program had actually become a liability, since it had pissed off his main benefactor--China--and frightened the international community into isolating him even further. Hence, he decided to cash in his bargaining chip, and Trump jumped at the chance of his offer to meet. That gives Kim international recognition that he has always craved but never had in the past. This could not be a better move for him, since he is getting far more leverage with the international community than he probably ever hoped to get. The worst case scenario is that he has to give up a nuclear weapons program that he could not afford to maintain and that he never planned to use. He still retains his formidable military and will likely see most sanctions evaporate. He is being hailed as a peacemaker now.

Meanwhile, in the US, Donald Trump is being seen as someone who pulled off a major diplomatic coup. This will help his popularity a great deal, given that he has created such low expectations in being able to do anything positive for US foreign policy. This will help to stem the "blue wave" midterms that have been threatening to sink Republicans.

What next? Well, it is pretty obvious that Trump has no long term vision for US foreign relations other than to bully other nations into complying with his vision of "America First". So the momentum is with Kim. What is his long game? He has achieved some pretty impressive short term gains. He wants US troops dislodged from the South, so I expect most of his moves to be pointed in that direction. That will give him even more leverage over his southern neighbor. It also aligns with China's goal of prying US military assets out of the region and taking control of commercial shipping lanes, which is part of the South China Sea strategy.

And interestingly we're now hearing that the US will help rebuild North Korea. No doubt that means expanding US markets and investing in cheap labor.

I think Trump's "America First" means american corporations first.

Typically, when negotiating, you don't put your best offer on the table. The US is making all sorts of promises right now.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

With the US being shoved to the sidelines in Asia policy, both China and Russia are moving quickly to capitalize on the disarray caused by Putin’s decision to have Trump pull out of the Iran deal.

fify

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

With the US being shoved to the sidelines in Asia policy, both China and Russia are moving quickly to capitalize on the disarray caused by Putin’s decision to have Trump pull out of the Iran deal.

fify

Oil prices increasing and animosity between the US and Europe benefits Russia the most.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

With the US being shoved to the sidelines in Asia policy, both China and Russia are moving quickly to capitalize on the disarray caused by Putin’s decision to have Trump pull out of the Iran deal.

fify

Oil prices increasing and animosity between the US and Europe benefits Russia the most.

Indeed. And since China knew immediately what Putin was doing (both with his deal with Exxon/BP that was stopped by Obama’s sanctions and in running Trump for the presidency to overturn those sanctions) and thus immediately took steps to overcome their own oil dependency, the subsequent trade deal they recently entered into with Russia simply makes them a partner with Putin and all that he wants.

Putin is basically out-Americaning America, with an inside man in the Oval doing his bidding, because Trump stupidly thinks he’s going to get rich out of it.

It’s worth noting that Trump is not just broke; he’s in debt by millions of dollars and the money he owes that to the most is Russia. If that were all there was to it, it would be enough, but Trump has been a Russian asset since at least the nineties, if not earlier.