Parents horrified after priest used teen's funeral to condemn suicide

[atrib]

Because - are you paying attention GenesisNemesis? - human life is not worthless.

What is a human life worth? How is this worth defined? And if human life is worth something, why do you defend the alleged planet-wide extermination of human life by your God on a scale that makes Hitler and Stalin look like amateurs? Show your work.

Human beings are NOT the unintended meaningless byproduct of (atheistic) evolution.

Prove it. Demonstrate that evolution is false and that your imaginary friend created humans.

"I don't lose any arguments" indeed!! Your posts are a joke and an embarrassment to the God you claim to worship.

 

[Rhea]

Because - are you paying attention GenesisNemesis? - human life is not worthless.
Human beings are NOT the unintended meaningless byproduct of (atheistic) evolution.

Nah. Earthly life is very low value when an eternal heaven exists. Just ask any christian how meaningful earthly treasure or pleasures are. Ask Jesus. He’ll tell you don’t even worry about groceries, like the sparrow. God’s got something MUCH more valuable for you.

Amirite?

 

[Learner]

Giving and sharing (and not worry about it), as according to Jesus, treats the recipients with that importance of high value.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Because - are you paying attention GenesisNemesis? - human life is not worthless.
Human beings are NOT the unintended meaningless byproduct of (atheistic) evolution.

Neither of those points lead to the conclusion. You need to show your work.

Also, please clarify what you mean by "condemn", so you can't weasel out of it later.

I can imagine a debilitating disease with the anticipation of an unendingly torturous existence and finally death making MY life pretty much worthless TO ME.

Or if several of us are in a room with a live grenade, MY life might be of less worth than the sum of the lives around me. I might jump on it, rather than jump out the window. But does Lion's moral valuation of human life allow such math? If my life is not mine to give or take, maybe such sacrifice is doomed to the same hell as the terminal patient or the deeply depressed.

 

[Lion IRC]

Because - are you paying attention GenesisNemesis? - human life is not worthless.
Human beings are NOT the unintended meaningless byproduct of (atheistic) evolution.

Neither of those points lead to the conclusion. You need to show your work.

Also, please clarify what you mean by "condemn", so you can't weasel out of it later.

You asked why suicide should be condemned.
I said because human life is not worthless. (There's both secular and religious arguments for this position.)
That is a sound argument unless you, (for some reason,) reject the premise that human life has worth.

Why would I make such an emphatic pro-life statement and then want to "weasel out of it" later?
I've held this view as long as I can remember.

condemn
/kənˈdɛm/
verb
1.
express complete disapproval of; censure.
"most leaders roundly condemned the attack"
synonyms: censure, criticize, castigate, attack, denounce, deplore, decry, revile, inveigh against, blame, chastise, berate, upbraid, reprimand, rebuke, reprove, reprehend, take to task, find fault with,

 

[Worldtraveller]

Because - are you paying attention GenesisNemesis? - human life is not worthless.
Human beings are NOT the unintended meaningless byproduct of (atheistic) evolution.

Neither of those points lead to the conclusion. You need to show your work.

Also, please clarify what you mean by "condemn", so you can't weasel out of it later.

You asked why suicide should be condemned.
I said because human life is not worthless. (There's both secular and religious arguments for this position.)
That is a sound argument unless you, (for some reason,) reject the premise that human life has worth.

Why would I make such an emphatic pro-life statement and then want to "weasel out of it" later?
I've held this view as long as I can remember.

condemn
/kənˈdɛm/
verb
1.
express complete disapproval of; censure.
"most leaders roundly condemned the attack"
synonyms: censure, criticize, castigate, attack, denounce, deplore, decry, revile, inveigh against, blame, chastise, berate, upbraid, reprimand, rebuke, reprove, reprehend, take to task, find fault with,

But you're not the judge of how much someone's life means to them. Your assertion really only holds as a reason to have murder be against the law, or condemned. If I have something of value, and I determine what to do with it, it's no one else's business really. Especially something as personal and profound as one's own life.

Even though other people are hurt by suicide, that's no reason to "condemn" it in the way you and this priest seem to think is 'good'. That's downright evil. Sure, offer suicide prevention hotlines, try to get them help, but to treat their family this way, and treat the decision this way after the fact is just plain evil. And I don't use that term lightly.

 

[Lion IRC]

Which country was it that passed legislation to legalise euthanasia in the very same week as that same country held its suicide prevention week? Euthanasia good. Suicide bad.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Which country was it that passed legislation to legalise euthanasia in the very same week as that same country held its suicide prevention week? Euthanasia good. Suicide bad.

Yes. Those aren't two incompatible concepts.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Which country was it that passed legislation to legalise euthanasia in the very same week as that same country held its suicide prevention week? Euthanasia good. Suicide bad.

Yes. Those aren't two incompatible concepts.

Precisely. It seems LIRC is incapable of thought beyond simple 'good' or 'bad'.

Most of us were capable of more nuanced thought by the time we were in elementary school.

 

[atrib]

Which country was it that passed legislation to legalise euthanasia in the very same week as that same country held its suicide prevention week? Euthanasia good. Suicide bad.

Wow! It must suck to live in a world that is strictly binary. You can only see black and white. Your mind is incapable of grasping the spectrum of possibilities that other people can see. Or maybe you do see the spectrum, but you don't want to acknowledge it because your mind is trapped in a little box. Either way, what a waste.

 

[ruby sparks]

Which country was it that passed legislation to legalise euthanasia in the very same week as that same country held its suicide prevention week? Euthanasia good. Suicide bad.

Wow! It must suck to live in a world that is strictly binary. You can only see black and white. Your mind is incapable of grasping the spectrum of possibilities that other people can see. Or maybe you do see the spectrum, but you don't want to acknowledge it because your mind is trapped in a little box. Either way, what a waste.

Word up: some think that Lion IRC isn't a real christian, that instead he's an atheist trying to discredit christianity. Think about it. Makes a certain sense, right?

 

[Underseer]

Suicide ought to be condemned.

I don't know why people think the priest and The Church offer an a la carte menu of preferential options where you can vet what you do and don't hear.

If this funeral was for a victim of gun violence the priest might want to condemn guns.
It the funeral was for a 99 year old the priest might celebrate their long and happy life.

You don't get to 'shop around' for the sock-puppet priest who will say what you want.

Absolutely.

As we learned in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, Christians believe that grieving families should be tormented as much as possible by other Christians to make sure their suffering is greatly amplified. Tormenting grieving families is an important part of being Christian and living with Christian "morals."

 

[Angry Floof]

Suicide ought to be condemned.

I don't know why people think the priest and The Church offer an a la carte menu of preferential options where you can vet what you do and don't hear.

If this funeral was for a victim of gun violence the priest might want to condemn guns.
It the funeral was for a 99 year old the priest might celebrate their long and happy life.

You don't get to 'shop around' for the sock-puppet priest who will say what you want.

Absolutely.

As we learned in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, Christians believe that grieving families should be tormented as much as possible by other Christians to make sure their suffering is greatly amplified. Tormenting grieving families is an important part of being Christian and living with Christian "morals."

Truth. The unquestioned authoritative dogma is much more important and valuable, especially when used as a tool of self-righteous condemnation of others, than empathy for the suffering of actual human beings.

But the God of the Bible is the same way, and what is God but a psychological concept in the heads of obedience machines? So lip service to "judge not" is just that - lip service.

 

[J842P]

Which country was it that passed legislation to legalise euthanasia in the very same week as that same country held its suicide prevention week? Euthanasia good. Suicide bad.

Wow! It must suck to live in a world that is strictly binary. You can only see black and white. Your mind is incapable of grasping the spectrum of possibilities that other people can see. Or maybe you do see the spectrum, but you don't want to acknowledge it because your mind is trapped in a little box. Either way, what a waste.

Word up: some think that Lion IRC isn't a real christian, that instead he's an atheist trying to discredit christianity. Think about it. Makes a certain sense, right?

Who thinks that? It doesn't make any sense. Lion seems to hold beliefs that one would *expect* Christian's to hold.

 

[Politesse]

Who thinks that? It doesn't make any sense. Lion seems to hold beliefs that one would *expect* Christian's to hold.

Uh, isn't that exactly what a con man would aim to do?

I am pretty sure Lion is legit in his faith though. I don't see what is so execrable about disfavoring euthanasia tbh. I mean, it's not my position but it's hardly an unreasonable one even if one disagrees. Obviously, people and societies come to different conclusions about when the end of a life is acceptable.

 

[Underseer]

Suicide ought to be condemned.

I don't know why people think the priest and The Church offer an a la carte menu of preferential options where you can vet what you do and don't hear.

If this funeral was for a victim of gun violence the priest might want to condemn guns.
It the funeral was for a 99 year old the priest might celebrate their long and happy life.

You don't get to 'shop around' for the sock-puppet priest who will say what you want.

Absolutely.

As we learned in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, Christians believe that grieving families should be tormented as much as possible by other Christians to make sure their suffering is greatly amplified. Tormenting grieving families is an important part of being Christian and living with Christian "morals."

Truth. The unquestioned authoritative dogma is much more important and valuable, especially when used as a tool of self-righteous condemnation of others, than empathy for the suffering of actual human beings.

But the God of the Bible is the same way, and what is God but a psychological concept in the heads of obedience machines? So lip service to "judge not" is just that - lip service.

Well, if you don't torment grieving families, who are you going to feel superior to?

 

[PyramidHead]

Because - are you paying attention GenesisNemesis? - human life is not worthless.
Human beings are NOT the unintended meaningless byproduct of (atheistic) evolution.

Neither of those points lead to the conclusion. You need to show your work.

Also, please clarify what you mean by "condemn", so you can't weasel out of it later.

You asked why suicide should be condemned.
I said because human life is not worthless. (There's both secular and religious arguments for this position.)
That is a sound argument unless you, (for some reason,) reject the premise that human life has worth.

Not necessarily. Having some worth does not mean something has infinite worth, or that it has more worth than other things (such as the cessation of suffering, the prevention of moral disaster, or the needs of loved ones).

 

[Angry Floof]

You asked why suicide should be condemned.
I said because human life is not worthless. (There's both secular and religious arguments for this position.)
That is a sound argument unless you, (for some reason,) reject the premise that human life has worth.

Not necessarily. Having some worth does not mean something has infinite worth, or that it has more worth than other things (such as the cessation of suffering, the prevention of moral disaster, or the needs of loved ones).

What? You mean there's no clear cut, black and white way to think about this? Not good enough.

 

[PyramidHead]

You asked why suicide should be condemned.
I said because human life is not worthless. (There's both secular and religious arguments for this position.)
That is a sound argument unless you, (for some reason,) reject the premise that human life has worth.

Not necessarily. Having some worth does not mean something has infinite worth, or that it has more worth than other things (such as the cessation of suffering, the prevention of moral disaster, or the needs of loved ones).

What? You mean there's no clear cut, black and white way to think about this? Not good enough.

For me it's pretty clear cut because I embrace the other horn of the dilemma (in bold above). But since he ignores that perspective because he can't refute it, he's trying to capture a broad swath of non-pessimists with the less drastic claim. Can't have it both ways, though.

 

[atrib]

Because - are you paying attention GenesisNemesis? - human life is not worthless.
Human beings are NOT the unintended meaningless byproduct of (atheistic) evolution.

Neither of those points lead to the conclusion. You need to show your work.

Also, please clarify what you mean by "condemn", so you can't weasel out of it later.

You asked why suicide should be condemned.
I said because human life is not worthless. (There's both secular and religious arguments for this position.)
That is a sound argument unless you, (for some reason,) reject the premise that human life has worth.

I agree with you that human life is not worthless, but our reasons for assigning value to our existence are very different.

You seem to believe that our lives are the property of your god, and this god gets to decide what our lives are worth, and when to create or extinguish it. We have no say in the matter, therefore you condemn suicide. This is the mentality of a slave.

I don't see myself as a slave. I believe that human life is a very rare natural occurrence in a vast universe that is mostly devoid of intelligent, self-aware life. Therefore, our existence is very precious, and we have a duty to preserve it to the best of our ability. We are the universe become aware of itself (you mentioned Brian Cox somewhere else, and this quote from one of his books resonates with me ). However, I am not opposed to people choosing to end their own lives. Our lives are our own and only we should get to decide what to do with it. Again,I don't see myself as a slave.