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Pelosi: Impeachment Is Moving Forward

PyramidHead said:
blastula said:
Clinton hired Fusion GPS to do oppo research, and they contracted Steele. Nothing illegal or unethical about it even if she hired Steele directly. It's legal to hire foreigners to do legal work for you on a campaign.

Trump used his office to request a personal political favor from another country, and using US aide as inducement, which is clearly corrupt and potentially illegal.
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I agree the two cases are not exactly the same. However, materially speaking, there is not much daylight between a former Secretary of State using a firm who then hires a former British spy, and a current President directly asking another foreign official, both for the purposes of winning a domestic election. The added layer of quid-pro-quo in Trump's case distinguishes the cases further, although there doesn't seem to be any direct evidence of that.

But in both cases, an outside party with an affiliation to another country is being recruited, either directly or by proxy, to help an American candidate win an upcoming election. In both cases, the political stature of the person making the request played a role in their ability to make it--with Clinton leveraging the party itself as well as the FBI, and Trump using his position as POTUS.

The alt left loves to share talking points with the conspiracy theorist right.
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The alt-left is not a thing no matter how many times the term is written, spoken aloud, or typed. It's just not.
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I don't think you are capturing all the differences. Here are some:
1. taxpayer money was set aside by congress representing the people to aid Ukraine;
2. trump used this money for an unintended personal purpose as if he is king in violation of its legal purpose;
3. trump used more taxpayer money and resources, including government employees, to further his political campaign;
4. trump, giuliani et alia fabricated a conspiracy theory of Biden out of whole cloth to lie to the public to further his personal goals;
5. trump used giuliani under the guise of a government employee giving him national security status and diplomatic statuses not approved by the people's representatives, i.e. the Senate;
6. trump gave such status to giuliani in order to conflate his role as attorney and the attorney client privilege with his illegal actions, just like he did with Michael Cohen. [right now there is a legal document sent from trump's representatives to Congress saying trump people do not have to listen to subpoenas because of some 5 factors one of which is the planned cover of attorney-client privilege that was never agreed to by the people to conflate and obfuscate diplomatic communication].
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tr1bGM_FFc

This is a long video. Rachel Maddow lays out the entire complex set of conspiracies involving Trump, Giuliani, and all the machinations of the Ukranian conspiracy.

This involves a set of false claims about the Bidens that Giuliani has been waving around. Where did that come from?

A key player is one Dmitri Firtash. Firtash is a billionare now under house arrest in Vienna and fighting extradition to the US. He is connected to Russian organized crime. He has been a central source of money for the Trump adminstration, and the dirty tricks against Biden. Rudy and others have been hauling water for Firtash for some time. At heart of all of this is these fake claims from Firtash that apparently Trump and Giuliani have bought hook line and sinker which is at heart of much of this scheme.

Firtash wants to get rid of the extradition order against him and wants to have Trump beholden to him for being so useful in taking down Biden.

Here is a bushel basket of shoes about to drop. Again, this is long and complex and involves a lot of rat fuckery involving a lot of unsavory people who have been involving Trump in all of this for their own reasons.
 
https://www.alternet.org/2019/10/gi...indicted-oligarch-who-funded-manafort-report/
...
Giuliani’s ‘proof’ of Biden’s corruption was paid for by an indicted oligarch who funded Manafort: report
...
In the spring of 2017, as the Russia scandal was just kicking into high gear, the name Dmytro Firtash began popping up in connection with onetime Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and a string of miraculous, highly profitable business moves. Firtash has been long regarded as being in the top echelon of Russian organized crime, was under indictment in the United States, and had been fighting a lengthy battle to avoid extradition from his temporary home in Vienna. Then a funny thing happened: The effort to extradite Firtash went quiet. Even requests about his status from Republican senators stopped getting any response. Finally, June 2019, brought word that Firtash had raked in an astounding $1.5 billion just while sitting in place, fighting off what increasingly seemed like a nonexistent effort to bring him to justice.

With all that cash in the bank, it shouldn’t be surprising that Firtash had some money left over for projects: Projects like weaving together conspiracy theories with the express purpose of luring in Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump. Projects like bribing a former Ukraine prosecutor to make up lies about Joe Biden.
...

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This is going to get interesting as all of this gets unravelled over the next few weeks in the impeachment investigations.



 
The russians and everyone else know that the most effective way you get Trumpo's abbreviated attention span is to dangle money.
 
In good company:

This means Trump was not only asking Zelenskiy to open an investigation into his political rival as a favor, he also signaled that he wanted the investigation to focus on whether Biden had done something “horrible." Put more bluntly, Trump was signaling to the Ukrainian president what false narrative he wanted adopted.

There was more. Trump was inviting Zelenskiy into what Zelenskiy understood to be a “strategic partnership.” Trump was drawing him in. Zelenskiy — by ordering an investigation and manufacturing some evidence — could help get Trump re-elected. Trump, in turn, would help him. Toward the end of the conversation, Trump said, “Your economy is going to get better and better I predict.”

Now let’s face it, Trump was unlikely to say, “Look, Zelenskiy, I am unlawfully withholding money allocated by Congress to help you defend your country against Russian aggression unless you help me gain unfair advantage in the 2020 presidential election by fabricating corruption claims against Joe Biden and his son.” But it doesn’t take a codebreaker, a cryptologist, or even Michal Cohen to help us read between Trump’s lines.
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T.G.G. Moogly said:
The russians and everyone else know that the most effective way you get Trumpo's abbreviated attention span is to dangle money.
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The dangling has long since been done. He took the bait, and is now beholden to Deutsche Bank and the Russian oligarchs who co-signed his loans.
 
southernhybrid said:
I assume that by now most of you have heard about the Taylor testimony today, which was extremely damaging to Trump. The NYTimes has the entire 15 page introduction that Taylor read prior to. his verbal testimony. I'm adding the link to that, if anyone is interested. I just finished reading it.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/22/us/politics/william-taylor-ukraine-testimony.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
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The evidence is piling up. The dems need to make this public hearings as soon as they can.
 
Cracks in the firewall: Republicans' support for Trump begins to falter | US news | The Guardian - "They’ve backed him through scandal after scandal. But concerns over Ukraine, Syria and the G7 summit are proving too much for some"

Finally, finally, finally, something that they can't stomach. Like Nancy Pelosi with Ukraine.
Donald Trump Jr, the president’s son, indicated that the White House was carefully watching which Republicans get out of line. Trump Jr retweeted a list of 23 House Republicans who were slow to sign on to a move to censure Adam Schiff, the House Democrat leading the impeachment inquiry.
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Richard Nixon very notably had an enemies list.

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "So some day, if a Democrat becomes President and the Republicans win the House, even by a tiny margin, they can impeach the President, without due process or fairness or any legal rights. All Republicans must remember what they are witnessing here - a lynching. But we will WIN!" / Twitter

Something that provoked a LOT of outrage. Trump likens impeachment probe to lynching, Democrats and some Republicans express disgust - The Washington Post
“Given the history of our country, I would not compare this to a lynching,” Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) told reporters Tuesday. “That was an unfortunate choice of words.”

Democrats roundly criticized the president’s comment, with some contemplating a House vote to condemn his language.
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‘The View’: Newt Gingrich and Whoopi Goldberg Go at It Over Trump’s ‘Lynching’ Comments - NG tried to defend Trump's calling himself "lynched", but WG didn't find it very convincing.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "It is atrocious that the President would refer to one of the most horrifying, violent practices of white supremacists to pretend he is a victim of anything but his own actions.
Take this moment to learn abt this dark history,& why we should support the Commission on Reparations." / Twitter
noting
brittany packnett cunningham on Twitter: "I want you all to read “Lynch Law” by Ida B. Wells, the Black woman activist who forced America to reckon with her own racial terror, to understand why #lynching is not a term to toss haphazardly.
[url]https://t.co/gnuDW5bQoN https://t.co/0wsoCUnodW" / Twitter[/url]

Yamiche Alcindor on Twitter: "Lynching is trending so here are some facts: From 1882-1968, 4,743 lynchings occurred in the U.S., according to the NAACP. Of these people that were lynched 3,446 were black.
Also facts: President Trump deeply wants to change the subject away from the G7, Ukraine and Syria." / Twitter

Kamala Harris on Twitter: "Lynching is a reprehensible stain on this nation's history, as is this President. We'll never erase the pain and trauma of lynching, and to invoke that torture to whitewash your own corruption is disgraceful. https://t.co/XOlsazwwRL" / Twitter

Aminatou Sow on Twitter: "Good day to be reminded there is a museum to make us understand the terror and legacy of lynching
“More than 4400 African American men, women, and children were hanged, burned alive, shot, drowned, and beaten to death by white mobs between 1877 and 1950.” https://t.co/uFhxHRNR3I" / Twitter
 
"Trump Jr retweeted a list of 23 House Republicans who were slow to sign on to a move to censure Adam Schiff,"
Deja vu.

My dad gave me make-work jobs for comic-book money, too. Sweep the pharmacy. Clean the toilet. Fill a non-narcotic prescription. Ferret out disloyalty among the counter-girls. Chip ice for the soda fountain. Stack the condoms next to the breath mints before the Prom.
Small world.
 
AOC Rips Trump's 'Lynching' Tweet, Lindsay Graham Defends President - she argues that this was deliberate. Provoking outrage, then going to his base and saying "See? Look how they are picking on us!" I remember a Trump supporter saying that an earlier Trump outrage was masterful "trolling".

She also noted that lynching lasted long after slavery, well into the lifetimes of the oldest Congresspeople. She also says that we must avoid "normalizing" his nastiness, and that creates an awkward dilemma.

It seems to me to be gross self-pity and claiming to be a victim, something that conservatives claim that they deplore.
 
So anyway, the Republicans turn back the clock with this oldie.

article said:
As Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Laura Cooper was sitting down to testify, the roughly couple dozen Republicans stormed through the three different doors, a source in the room said.

Rep. Bradley Byrne yelled in committee Chair Adam Schiff's face, but Schiff didn't engage. Other Democrats, including Val Demings, screamed back at both Byrne and Rep. Louie Gohmert, who were yelling about the process.
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Something like this happened in 2000 in Palm Beach, with what was allegedly a grass roots protest.
 
Despite's Trump's obvious racism, I don't think we should be making such a big thing over the term lynching or we will look like hypocrites, since at least five Democrats used the same term to describe the Clinton impeachment. Some of them were black.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/at-least-5-house-democrats-called-bill-clintons-impeachment-a-lynching-in-1998/ar-AAJbmN2


“I don’t expect Trump to be sensitive to the weight of that word, or see how insulting and hurtful it is to invoke it here,” Rep. Gregory W. Meeks (D-N.Y.) tweeted Tuesday.

In 1998, however, both Davis and Meeks called the Clinton impeachment proceedings a “lynching” on the House floor the day before the president was impeached. Then-Rep. Charles B. Rangel (D-N.Y.) described what he called a “lynch mob mentality, that says this man has to go” during a floor speech the same day.
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Perhaps people are more sensitive to words that have had a dark historical meaning these days. Maybe we are just a bit too politically correct, but I try to be fair. Democrats have numerous other things to criticize when it comes to Trump's language. Maybe we should be more careful in our criticisms to avoid appearing hypocritical. Just sayin'.
 
southernhybrid said:
Despite's Trump's obvious racism, I don't think we should be making such a big thing over the term lynching or we will look like hypocrites, since at least five Democrats used the same term to describe the Clinton impeachment. Some of them were black.
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I addressed this in the humor thing regarding how this is a red herring introduced by Trump to distract from what matters. Witch Hunt, Lynching, Holocaust... they are all bullshit terms regarding an investigation into his inappropriate acts as President.
 
Federal judge orders State department to release Ukraine records within 30 days.
 
Five hours of a right-wing circle jerk, the deposition begins.

I was thinking about the 'lynching' comment. Trump realizes that the GOP has control over whether he gets hung, right?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
So anyway, the Republicans turn back the clock with this oldie.

article said:
As Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Laura Cooper was sitting down to testify, the roughly couple dozen Republicans stormed through the three different doors, a source in the room said.

Rep. Bradley Byrne yelled in committee Chair Adam Schiff's face, but Schiff didn't engage. Other Democrats, including Val Demings, screamed back at both Byrne and Rep. Louie Gohmert, who were yelling about the process.
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Something like this happened in 2000 in Palm Beach, with what was allegedly a grass roots protest.
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House chairman asks sergeant at arms to 'take action' after Republicans bring electronics to secure hearing

The chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee on Wednesday asked the top congressional law enforcement official to “take action" in response to GOP lawmakers bringing electronic devices to a secure facility while disrupting the deposition of a witness in the impeachment inquiry.

In a letter to Sergeant at Arms Paul Irving, Homeland Security Chairman Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) said that Republicans’ decision to bring cell phones into the room, known as a sensitive compartmented information facility (SCIF), violated security protocols established by the intelligence community to protect classified information.

"This unprecedented breach of security raises serious concerns for committee chairman, including me, responsible for maintaining SCIFs," Thompson wrote.
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Laura Cooper depostion: Following Republicans storming room, Defense official testifies in impeachment inquiry - CNNPolitics

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Important to remember that GOP&Dem members have been part of impeachment depositions this whole time.
All you need is to sit on the relevant committees.
If these guys are so mad, maybe they should take their little flash mob to the @GOPLeader who didn’t assign them to the task." / Twitter

The "Brooks Brother Riot" back in 2000 that interrupted some Florida vote counting:
The Left on Twitter: "@mkraju When all else fails, shout, shout, and shout again. It's all they know, going back to that ludicrous farce in Florida in 2000. https://t.co/7jeJihzYti" / Twitter

Russell Drew on Twitter: "@mkraju House Republicans railing against "process" (the last resort of a scoundrel who knows he's been caught) reminds me of the infamous Brooks Brothers riot during Florida recount.
Trumpers know the game is almost played out. We have a human smoking gun in the form of Bill Taylor. https://t.co/aZNsj4jX0Q" / Twitter

From the US Constitution:
Article I, Section 6:
1. The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States.6 They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
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