fast
Contributor
Race is only an issue when demeanor is consistent with disposition.
Actually they do. Do you even know what brandish means?Derec has zero evidence that Crawford was "brandishing" the weapon. Not even the most prejudicial *witness* statement says he was "brandishing" it.
Actually multiple news stories (like this one) say that it wasn't kept in the toy section. Which makes sense, as it wasn't a toy!Derec has zero evidence as to what department this air-rifle was actually in at this particular store. He only has his biased assumptions, which he is now repeating as if they are facts.
WHIO said:A check of the Beavercreek Walmart on Wednesday showed it doesn’t have toy guns in the toy section, but does have real guns in glass cases and realistic-looking BB guns in the sporting goods section, including one BB gun box that was open.
See above. These guns are kept in boxes and an opened box was found.Derec has zero evidence that Crawford "unpacked" the air-rifle. That is again Derec's biased assumption that he is now repeating as fact.
Derec has zero evidence that Crawford was "waiving it around" - even the *witness* statement says he had it cradled in his arms.
Ohio attorney general: Man fatally shot by police in Wal-Mart store was waving air rifleFox said:Police had said John Crawford, 22, waved a rifle at customers Tuesday night and was fatally shot when he wouldn't drop the weapon.
"Baby mama" is a very common slang term which fits here very well as it allows one to distinguish between her and the girlfriend. You appear not to have realized they were two different people which further underscores the usefulness of the term. As far as "thug", there is nothing racial about that term. As to "butchering black victim's names" where have I butchered the name "John Crawford". Seems like a perfectly ordinary name to me.Derec's repeated use of the term "baby mama" is pure unadulterated race-baiting - as is his use of "thug" or "thuggish" and his butchering of black victim's names
I guess you do not think the fact that these air rifles are kept in boxes and the fact that an empty box was found is evidence?Derec has zero evidence that Crawford unpacked anything from its box, but here he is embellishing the facts to blame the dead victim.
My use of brandishing is consistent with the witness statements. They describe Crawford as pointing the gun toward people, including children, in a threatening manner.Derec again embellishing in a prejudicial manner with his use of the word "brandishing". For someone who is allegedly such a stickler for the proper use of words, Derec consistently chooses them to blame the dead victims.
Yes we do.Derec also has zero evidence that Crawford "failed to comply with police orders to drop it".
No, the witness statement you are probably thinking of doesn't say that but it does say that Crawford turned around.We do have two witness statements that the shots came immediately after the commands, so it sounds more like Crawford was not given time to comply. But Derec chooses to blame the dead black victim by portraying events as "he failed to comply with police orders to drop it."
It's a useful term to distinguish her from the girlfriend.Derec is again race-baiting with his use of "baby mama" instead of the young woman's actual name.
No I could not, as they are two different individuals (but I guess they all look the same to you )He could have left it as "girlfriend" but he had to add four extra words in to continue with his race-baiting.
It was a different poster commenting on her name. But the grammar part stands.Derec race-baiting with his comments about grammar and comments about Leecee's name.
It has been reported in multiple places that the gun was not kept in the toy section, contrary to baby mama's claims. It also makes sense, since it wasn't a toy gun.Derec embellishing the facts with his claim that "we know that it... was not sold in the toy aisle". We "know" no such thing. That has been Derec's speculation, not a fact presented in this case so far.
It is possible she was mistaken. But remember, she wasn't there and had no way of knowing where he picked up the gun from. So why did she feel the need to declare, as a fact, which department he picked up the gun from? I think it's to make him appear as innocent as possible. I would call that a lie.Moreover, it is even possible that LeeCee (or Crawford) was mistaken about the department the air-rifle was it. At my local Target, the toy and sports departments are side-by-side and tend to overlap. But Derec immediately, prejudicially and predicatably leaps to the accusation that the dead victim's girlfriend is a liar.
It implies something B immediately following A. Not after 10 or 15 minutes.Derec embellishes the facts by claiming LeeCee is a liar because DEREC assumes that her use of the phrase "next thing I know" somehow "implies" a specific period of time.
No, it's merely a term for dishonest lawyers. It's origin is Yiddish and I do not presume that it's very likely they will hire a Jewish lawyer.Derec is race-baiting with his use of the word "shyster" for "lawyer".
Evidence for this assertion?In Derec's very long history on this board and it's predecessors, Derec has only ever used the word "shyster" for a lawyer hired by a black family, with the lawyer typically being also black.
LeeCee is Crawford's baby mama. Some people, black, white or otherwise, are thugs but only calling black thugs that is somehow considered politically incorrect. And I did not butcher "John Crawford" so that's rather irrelevant here.This, along with his constant, consistent use of "baby mama" and various forms of "thug" to describe black people, and only black people, goes along with Derec's purposeful butchering of black victim's names is creating a long and consistent pattern of race-baiting on Derec's part. I, for one, am sick of it.
How so. I was just referring to a white man's hypothetical baby mama. That proves the term and my use of it is not racial.Frankly, Derec's own choice of words and arguments throughout this thread make it very very clear that there really is no other explanation other than race. None of the rest of us even need to say anything at all. Derec has already made that case clearly for us.
I am curious now, what is the norm that is lawful for lawfully carrying a weapon? specifically what behavior.....
The idiot was waving it around, a policeman told him to drop it and he didn't.
like it is lawful to carry a firearm as long as you don't wave it around?
it is lawful to carry a firearm as long as you don't wave it around?
Basically, yes.
White guy walks into an airport with a loaded rifle and accidentally points it at two passengers: gets arrested.
Black man walks into Walmart, picks up a toy gun on sale there, accidentally points it at two shoppers: shot on sight.
Again, not a toy gun. Until you get that fact through your thick skull I do not think it's fruitful to reply to anything else you write.The man who is distracted, with a toy gun in his hand,
Eh. They still should have given him a second chance to drop the gun.The cop challenged him, rather than drop it he said it wasn't real and turned towards the cop. A cop is *NOT* going to listen to a claim a weapon is fake--his actions look like someone trying to kill a cop.
I'd like to see this police force's official 'conditions of deadly force' definition.
In the Navy, we basically couldn't shoot to kill until someone was dead. Him still holding a weapon when told to drop it is not a condition of deadly force. Not a sane one, anyway. Unless he's actively pointing it at someone, aiming to shoot. Deadly force usually isn't authorized until lesser conditions have been met. Asking him to set it down is a lesser condition, but maybe asking a second time? With a 'DROP IT OR WE'LL SHOOT!' warning?
Derec STOP with your embellishments unless you have video tape or some sort of evidence. You have ZERO evidence that John Crawford was "brandishing" anything or, especially, that "he failed to comply with police orders to drop it." Yes yes yes, I know I know... you will trot out these quotes from thestalkers*witnesses*
But his girlfriend reportshttp://bearingarms.com/dayton-walmart-shooting-innocent-man-swatted-death/2/that she heard him address someone and say “it’s not real,” at which point he was shot and then someone (presumably police officers) yell at him to “get on the ground,” after he’d already been shot.
Are you going to dare suggest that the girlfriend is a liar while the two Walmart busy-bodies aren't?
Again, not a toy gun. Until you get that fact through your thick skull I do not think it's fruitful to reply to anything else you write.The man who is distracted, with a toy gun in his hand,
Again, not a toy gun. Until you get that fact through your thick skull I do not think it's fruitful to reply to anything else you write.
It is not a toy. http://www.crosman.com/airguns/rifles/pump/30117
But, its a pump gun. You have to pump it ten times to get the rated velocity for pellets 750ft/sec or BBs 800ft/sec. It takes at least 5 pumps to get decent trajectory control. It is rated for pest control or target shooting and not for small animal hunting.
So if a guy is walking around Walmart or any other store waving this things he's not really gonna be in the position of doing any damage. To drop in pellets one has to drop the muzzle down to a 45 degree angle to get them to drop into the chamber. Every shot uses up some to the potential energy stored by pumping so its not really a weapon at all. Of course that depends is you think a guy waving a three quarter inch PVC pipe around in the store as one waving around a weapon. We need to get a grip.
I understand all the prancing around about 'weapon'. Its just that almost every one who has a new do-dad likes to live his fantasy though the do-dad as soon as he gets it, including adults. If we called every woman who dressed to feature her assets a whore and meant it as an accusation about one's intentions maybe what you are saying would be meaningful.
Oh shit. many do think women who feature sexual attributes are 'asking for it'.
We've got to grow up.
Its not on the ones who are enjoying themselves to act adult. Its on those who are responding to them to act adult.
. Not a real gun either! And you have zero evidence that Crawford opened the box it was in. You have zero evidence he was "brandishing" it - a word with a very specific meaning - go look it up.Again, not a toy gun. Until you get that fact through your thick skull I do not think it's fruitful to reply to anything else you write.The man who is distracted, with a toy gun in his hand,
Derec STOP with your embellishments unless you have video tape or some sort of evidence. You have ZERO evidence that John Crawford was "brandishing" anything or, especially, that "he failed to comply with police orders to drop it." Yes yes yes, I know I know... you will trot out these quotes from thestalkers*witnesses*
But his girlfriend reports http://bearingarms.com/dayton-walmart-shooting-innocent-man-swatted-death/2/
Are you going to dare suggest that the girlfriend is a liar while the two Walmart busy-bodies aren't?
1) She's much more likely to be lying than the Wal-Mart employees. She's an interested party, they aren't.
2) Him saying "it's not real" is actually a strike against him--he's defending his position rather than complying.
3) The cop telling him to get on the ground after shooting is reasonable. If he's not on the ground he's still a threat.
It is not a toy. http://www.crosman.com/airguns/rifles/pump/30117
But, its a pump gun. You have to pump it ten times to get the rated velocity for pellets 750ft/sec or BBs 800ft/sec. It takes at least 5 pumps to get decent trajectory control. It is rated for pest control or target shooting and not for small animal hunting.
So if a guy is walking around Walmart or any other store waving this things he's not really gonna be in the position of doing any damage. To drop in pellets one has to drop the muzzle down to a 45 degree angle to get them to drop into the chamber. Every shot uses up some to the potential energy stored by pumping so its not really a weapon at all. Of course that depends is you think a guy waving a three quarter inch PVC pipe around in the store as one waving around a weapon. We need to get a grip.
I understand all the prancing around about 'weapon'. Its just that almost every one who has a new do-dad likes to live his fantasy though the do-dad as soon as he gets it, including adults. If we called every woman who dressed to feature her assets a whore and meant it as an accusation about one's intentions maybe what you are saying would be meaningful.
Oh shit. many do think women who feature sexual attributes are 'asking for it'.
We've got to grow up.
Its not on the ones who are enjoying themselves to act adult. Its on those who are responding to them to act adult.
The point is the cop isn't going to immediately know it's not a real gun.
unbeatable said:If there's a post on this forum about the police killing someone, it's going to be pretty easy to guess the victim's race.
What makes it even easier is when your article quote opens with "We was..."
I was raised not all that far from this area. I was raised on 'we was,' pronounced 'we wuz.' Ain't no racial component to it. It's just fairly common conversational dialect.
For one, we know that it was not a toy gun and thus was not sold in the toy aisle, but rather a small game hunting air rifle sold in the sporting goods aisle.
Derec STOP with your embellishments unless you have video tape or some sort of evidence. You have ZERO evidence that John Crawford was "brandishing" anything or, especially, that "he failed to comply with police orders to drop it."
Derec STOP with your embellishments unless you have video tape or some sort of evidence. You have ZERO evidence that John Crawford was "brandishing" anything or, especially, that "he failed to comply with police orders to drop it."
This is the most ironic post of the thread. This thread was posted specifically to show racial bias, for which ZERO evidence was given. Much has been made of it being a "toy" gun. Why does that matter? If it looks like a real gun, and police can't be sure, it should be assumed to be a real gun. Much has been made of him supposedly saying "its not real". Even if he said that, apparently people didn't hear it, because they say they were alarmed and thought it real. Other witnesses apparently said he was pointing it around at people and had taken it out of its box.
At the end of the day, we don't really know, so you should not be ASSUMING racist motivations here, as it appears to be the whole purpose of the thread to do. If you've got a surveillance video, or more witness accounts, they'd be interesting to see, but lets not jump to conclusions one way or the other.