Police Misconduct Catch All Thread

[Gospel]

I'm not at all surprised--this is a mental health issue gone very bad. But you're basically admitting she attacked the officer.

If an officer threatens to shoot you in the face and immediately draws his weapon after you calmly spoke a few non-threatening words, wouldn't you panic and possibly make mistakes? My point is that the officer created the situation. She would never have panicked and reached for the pot if he had not threatened her. She wouldn't have been near the pot if he hadn't directed her to it. Moreover, he wouldn't have been in the house if he hadn't unnecessarily stepped inside.

If she had attempted to attack the officer with the pot before he escalated the situation, I would agree with you. However, since that is not the case, this is just another instance of you making an argument against a person of color that essentially boils down to "If I can find any fault in their actions, they deserve to die."

 

[Gospel]

Despite both the sheriff and the state's attorney finding the officer's actions unjustifiable, some still question the victim's conduct. I wonder why.

Who?

I can't say who but I can say it's not you.

 

[bilby]

he order her to drop the pot that she was not holding, so she grabs the pot and drops it in order to comply.

 

[TomC]

If there was a mental health issue I'm tending to think it was the cop with the issue.

Perhaps people with better internetz than me can explain something.

I'm seeing two people with mental health issues. The big difference is that one was hired by the county to do police work. One called 9/11 and got shot to death.

To me, that's the bigger issue. Bad things happen all the time. But this particular tragedy was a direct result of the county officials choosing a demonstrably dangerous cop for their police force.

Why did they do that? Why did the county officials decide that that cop was the best choice for the position?
Tom

 

[Toni]

After watching the video in slow motion multiple times, she did throw the pot toward the officers.

Edit: In self defense against someone who just threaten to shoot her in the face.

How do you throw something in self defense against a threat rather than against an action?

Well, the officer did have a loaded weapon pointed at her. If someone was pointing a gun at me threatening to shoot me in the face, I’d definitely throw a pot of scalding hot water at them if I had it.

The officer was a coward and a lunatic. I hope he’s convicted abd serves a long time. And I hope the city guard her family anything they ask for.

 

[robnisch]

If there was a mental health issue I'm tending to think it was the cop with the issue.

Perhaps people with better internetz than me can explain something.

I'm seeing two people with mental health issues. The big difference is that one was hired by the county to do police work. One called 9/11 and got shot to death.

To me, that's the bigger issue. Bad things happen all the time. But this particular tragedy was a direct result of the county officials choosing a demonstrably dangerous cop for their police force.

Why did they do that? Why did the county officials decide that that cop was the best choice for the position?
Tom

It's almost like the sheriff is an accomplice it murder.

 

[Gospel]

If there was a mental health issue I'm tending to think it was the cop with the issue.

Perhaps people with better internetz than me can explain something.

I'm seeing two people with mental health issues. The big difference is that one was hired by the county to do police work. One called 9/11 and got shot to death.

To me, that's the bigger issue. Bad things happen all the time. But this particular tragedy was a direct result of the county officials choosing a demonstrably dangerous cop for their police force.

Why did they do that? Why did the county officials decide that that cop was the best choice for the position?
Tom

It's almost like the sheriff is an accomplice it murder.

I believe the legal term is "Accessory Before the Fact." While I'm not a lawyer, it would need to be proven that the sheriff knew about the crime beforehand to be considered an accessory to murder. The sheriff protected himself from being an "Accessory After the Fact" by firing the officer.

 

[lpetrich]

Trump Promises To Give Police 'Immunity From Prosecution' - "The pledge, while mostly legally illiterate, offers a reminder of the former president's outlook on government accountability."

One such promise: "We're going to give our police their power back," he told rallygoers in Waukesha, "and we are going to give them immunity from prosecution."

...
But despite the overall legal illiteracy of Trump's promise, it's worth considering what it says about his general outlook on accountable government, or lack thereof, and if those with the most power should be held to the lowest standard.

That his answer to the above question is more or less a "yes" should not come as a surprise. During his term in office, Trump made it clear he would fight any legislation that sought to hamstring qualified immunity, the legal doctrine legislated into existence by the Supreme Court that bars alleged victims of misconduct from bringing civil suits against state and local government employees if the way in which those employees violated the Constitution has not been explicitly ruled unconstitutional in a prior court decision. It is why, for example, two California men were not able to sue the officers who allegedly stole over $225,000 from them during the execution of a search warrant, as there was no previous court ruling that said stealing under such circumstances is unconstitutional. (Federal law enforcement officers, meanwhile, are essentially already protected by absolute immunity.)

The most common objection to curtailing or ending qualified immunity is grounded in the fear that police officers will be bankrupted by breathless lawsuits. Those who are nervous about such an outcome can take comfort in the fact that, prior to any jury trial, plaintiffs must also show in federal court that their allegations concern conduct that was unconstitutional. More importantly, cops are almost always protected from having to pay damages themselves; a study conducted by UCLA law professor Joanna Schwartz found that governments paid the judgments 99.98 percent of the time. It's hard to know if Trump realizes this is the case, as he promised in December to "indemnify [police] against any and all liability." Whether or not that was a knowingly false promise or if he is genuinely unfamiliar with the law remains unclear.

Also Trump Wants Police To Be Above the Law

 

[lpetrich]

Trump Promises to Militarize Police, Reincarcerate Thousands, and Expand Death Penalty | ACLU

Donald Trump has long identified himself as the candidate of “law and order” but, during the Trump administration, “law and order” translated to a severe approach to criminal punishment and policing that failed to make us safer.

Today, his proposed policies for a second term promise to double down on these ineffective tough on crime tactics. If reelected, a second administration threatens to accelerate mass incarceration and roll back decades of progress by encouraging aggressive policing practices, enacting draconian sentencing regimes, and expanding the use of the death penalty.

...
Specifically, Trump’s law enforcement policies call for further protections for abusive police, including condoning the use of force against protesters, which he once described as a “beautiful thing to watch.”

...
Additionally, Trump has promised that, if reelected, his administration will accelerate mass incarceration efforts by directing federal prosecutors to seek the most serious charges and maximum sentences, pressuring local prosecutors to take a similarly draconian approach, and re-incarcerating thousands of people on home confinement. His administration will also expand the use of the death penalty – despite Americans’ increasing opposition to capital punishment – by broadening the category of crimes punishable by death, sentencing more people to die, and killing every person on federal death row.

...
Why It Matters: The Trump administration has already shown its capacity for brutal criminal legal system policies. In its final year, for example, the Trump Administration executed 13 people, more than half of whom were people of color. Trump executed more people than any administration in 120 years.

...
How We Got Here: During Trump’s time in office, he threatened to bring the National Guard into major cities to quell violence, and risk dangerously escalating tensions and exposing peaceful protestors to excessive or deadly force. He also encouraged the militarization of the police by rescinding President Barack Obama’s executive order limiting the distribution of military-grade weapons to state, local, and federal law enforcement agencies.

Trump and his administration were so committed to ineffective tough on crime policies that they even, at times, reversed their own progress on criminal legal system reform.

That article noted that most law enforcement is handled by state and local governments. But I don't think that Donald Trump will be bothered by such nitpicky details as federalism.

 

[lpetrich]

LAPD tased man who called to report a burglary, lawsuit says - Los Angeles Times

Damien Smith was making a documentary about police brutality. But when a burglar broke into his Hollywood apartment, he didn’t hesitate to call the cops.

Smith, a filmmaker and actor, was critical of law enforcement but believed officers were necessary to fight crime. He hoped for better community policing. That was the subject of his documentary, “Searching for Officer Friendly,” which focuses on national policing trends and the militarization of police forces.

But Smith says when police arrived at his home late at night, officers tased him — not the burglar. They then placed him in the back of a squad car. He was released not long after, but not before being humiliated in front of his neighbors.

He has now filed a civil lawsuit against the Los Angeles Police Department.

Black man called 911 to report intruder. Cops tased him instead, California suit says

The lawsuit says Smith returned to his apartment, where he’s lived for 10 years, in Hollywood at around 12:30 a.m. on Oct. 13, 2021, when he saw an “uninvited intruder” standing in his home holding some of his belongings.

Smith called 911, and officers with the Los Angeles Police Department arrived at around 1:30 a.m., the lawsuit says.

The officers pointed their taser guns at Smith and ordered him to get on the ground, the lawsuit says.

Smith said, “I live here. I called 911,” but the officers tased him three times, the lawsuit says. He was struck once in the chest and twice in the back.

“At the time that he was tased, Mr. Smith was standing inside of his home, unarmed, and was not posing a threat to the safety or welfare of (the officers),” the lawsuit says.

...
Several community members saw Smith being taken to the patrol car and told officers that he lived there and they “had arrested the wrong person,” the lawsuit says.

Smith was not charged after the incident, according to the LA Times. Another man was arrested at Smith’s apartment, and he was convicted of burglary in July 2022, the outlet reported.

He suffered injuries to his chest, back and nervous system and also experienced embarrassment and public ridicule, according to the lawsuit.

The officers “racially-profiled” Smith and followed police practices in which officers “over-react to Black people, whom they wrongly assume to be criminals,” the lawsuit says.

“The physical pain, emotional distress and embarrassment that Mr. Smith endured at the hands of (the officers) remains to this day,” the lawsuit says.

I don't like having to give this kind of praise, but I'm glad that these cops Tased him instead of shooting him with a firearm -- he survived.

 

[lpetrich]

$50 million claim filed over LAPD tasing of Keenan Anderson : NPR

A cousin of Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors died after Los Angeles Police repeatedly tased him in the middle of the street earlier this month, according to police body-camera footage and his family's account.

Keenan Anderson, a 31-year-old high school teacher and father, was trying to get help after a traffic collision when he was chased, held down by multiple officers and tased for over 90 seconds as he begged for help.

On Jan. 20, Lawyers for Anderson's 5-year-old son announced they have filed a $50 million claim against the city of Los Angeles over the incident

Eek. What excuse do those cops have for doing that?

One won't get much support from the community if one acts like that.

 

[lpetrich]

NYC Cop Becomes Whistleblower On Police Reform | Edwin Raymond | TMR - YouTube - interviewed by Sam Seder and Emma Vigeland of The Majority Report podcast

Great interview. He describes how he wanted to be a cop to serve his community, and then he found that the reality was very different. Like cops hitting certain neighborhoods with what may be called junk violations, things that they would not consider violations in other places. Also officially denying things that they do routinely, like having arrest quotas and doing racial profiling.

That lawsuit: Raymond v. The City of New York, No. 15-CV-6885-LTS-SLC | Casetext Search + Citator

A conversation with author and NYPD whistleblower Edwin Raymond - Gothamist - subscription walled

His book: An Inconvenient Cop by Edwin Raymond, Jon Sternfeld: 9780593653166 | PenguinRandomHouse.com: Books

Over his decade and a half with the New York Police Department, Edwin Raymond consistently exposed the dark underbelly of modern policing, becoming the highest-ranking whistleblower in the history of the force and one of the country’s leading voices against police injustice. Offering a rare, often shocking view of American policing, An Inconvenient Cop pulls back the curtain on the many flaws woven into the NYPD’s training, data, and practices, which have since been repackaged and repurposed by police departments across the country.

Gravitating toward law enforcement in the hope of being a positive influence in his community, Raymond quickly learned that the problem with policing is a lot deeper than merely “a few bad apples”—the entire mechanism is set up to ensure that racial profiling is rewarded, and there are weighty consequences for cops who don’t play along. Struggling with the moral dilemma of policing impartially while witnessing his fellow officers go with the flow, Raymond’s journey takes him to the precipice of personal and professional ruin. Yet, through it all, he remains steadfast in his commitment to justice and his belief in the potential for change.

 

[lpetrich]

“An Inconvenient Cop” author Edwin Raymond on what's missing from the policing debate - AZ Luminaria
"People that used to say reform years ago, are saying abolish and defund today. Meanwhile, those who are pro law enforcement refuse to acknowledge that there are issues that need rectifying. So I’m essentially inconvenient to both."

About one's identity as a Black cop:

There’s a limbo that Black officers experience where once we join the police department, we’re no longer a member of the community. We’re not Black anymore. We’re essentially blue. Simultaneously, we’re never accepted by the blue. We never assimilate no matter how hard we try to. So we occupy this middle ground that the beginning of the book jumps right into.

What was it like to blow the whistle on fellow cops?

The plan wasn’t originally to be a whistleblower. The original plan was to rise through the ranks, and have the autonomy to do things differently. I was forced to become the activist and the whistleblower because the system is not designed for differing opinions from within. I prepared to be called a rat, and to be ostracized. Despite what you prepare for, when you actually go through it, it still stings. So I always wore a very strong image, but when I was home and would think about it, it was heavy. It was mentally draining. I would see people staring. I would walk into a room and you can tell they were just talking about you. Or when you walk in the room, the energy shifts completely. Everyone is jovial in a room, and then when you get there to eat your lunch, you notice everyone’s serious again. So I didn’t enjoy it, but I accepted it.

Then mentioning the oddity of the NYPD having several "foreign" posts, like a sixteenth one that was opened recently in Tucson, AZ.

Despite being a local police department, the NYPD operates more effectively and with a higher budget than most nations. What local police department can afford to have agents all around the world? ... A lot of police departments, when they are looking to hire new leadership they often hire outgoing or recently retired NYPD leadership. And what have they done? They’ve literally just recreated what they know in New York, and that’s how the cancer spreads.

 

[lpetrich]

Q: You mention the myth of bad apples, and say it’s really the whole barrel. What are some misconceptions about the term “bad apple” when it comes to policing, and how do you hope to dispel these misconceptions through your book?

This is something that I was guilty of prior to joining the police academy. And I would say 95% of society is guilty of. We assume that police officers have a lot more autonomy than they really do. You’re literally not you. Out there you are conforming to a system. You are following orders and policy. The bias is already in the policy. This is why no matter the racial makeup of a police department, if they’re still following detrimental policy, we will still have the same despairing outcomes.

That's why improved training is not good enough. One has to have some drastic changes in policies.

An example of this can be Tyre Nichols in Memphis. All the officers involved were Black, and the police chief was a Black woman — and people might assume, because everyone involved is Black, including the police chief, it would eradicate the issue. It doesn’t. All of them are still operating within a certain framework and that’s where we have to go deeper into the soil of the tree.

He was killed by repeatedly being Tasered by some cops.

An Inconvenient Cop: My Fight to Change Policing in America

Yet once he joined the force, Raymond became disillusioned by a system of policing that discouraged him from interacting with his community. He recounts being ostracized by colleagues for his support of NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick’s protests against police brutality and his alliance with Women’s March organizer Tamika Mallory, and explains how the NYPD’s embrace of “broken windows policing” and use of CompStat technologies incentivizes arrest quotas and encourages racism.

Edwin Raymond's home page

 

[bilby]

I don't like having to give this kind of praise, but I'm glad that these cops Tased him instead of shooting him with a firearm -- he survived.

And now he's making trouble for them. They won't make that mistake again.

Dead men tell no tales.

And can depend on certain people to declare that they were "no angels", and that their shooting by police was entirely justified.

 

[Person19960]

Anyway, there is some important cultural commentary about Black men first joining the ranks of police officers, as told by one of East Coast rap and hip-hop's most influential founders, a man respected for his political, social, and cultural views, pioneer and "socially conscious" hip-hop legend, KRS-One.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRS-One


It's an old, foundational rap song called "Black Cop." I don't think I can understate how important this song is to understanding the dynamic.

Black Cop · KRS-One, Return of the Boom Bap℗ 1993 Zomba Recording LLC. Released on: 1993-04-06. Composer, Lyricist: L. Parker, Mixing Engineer: Adam Kudzin

This is a fan-made lyric video, shared under Fair Use for purposes of discussion of a topic the song is about. I figured it might make the song easier for you to follow.



Lyrics:

Black Cop
Song by
KRS-One

Buck, buck, buck, buck, buck, buck, buck
All rude bwoy lissen up
Black cop, black cop, black cop, black cop
Stop shootin' black people, we all gonna drop

You don't even get paid a whole lot
So take your M sixty and put it 'pon lock
Take your four, five and you put it 'pon lock
Lookin' for your people when you walk down a block

Here in America you have drug spot
They get the black cop to watch the drug spot
The black drug dealer just avoid black cop
They're killin' each other on a East Coast block

Killin' each other on a West Coast block
White police, don't give a care about dat
Dem want us killin' each other over crack
Anyway you put it, it's a black on black

Black cop, black cop, black cop
Black cop, black cop, black cop

Thirty years ago, there were no black cops
You couldn't even run, drive round the block
Recently police trained black cop
To stand on the corner and take gunshot

This type of warfare isn't new or a shock
It's black on black crime, again nonstop

Black cop, black cop, black cop
Black cop, black cop, black cop

Don't be the sucker
Don't be the sucker, comin' into my face
Don't be the sucker

Here's what the West and the East have in common
Both have black cops in cars profilin'
Hardcore kids in the West got stress
In the East we are chased by the same black beast

The black cop is the only real obstacle
Black slave turned black cop is not logical
But very psychological, haven't you heard?
It's the black cop killin' black kids in Johannesburg

Whassup black cop, yo, whassup?
Your authorization says shoot your nation
You wanna uphold the law, what could you do to me?
The same law dissed the whole black community

You can't play both sides of the fence
1993, mad kids are gettin' tense
Black cop, black cop, black cop, black cop
Stop shootin' black people, we all gonna drop

You don't even get paid a whole lot
Take your four, five and you put it 'pon lock
Take your M sixty and put it 'pon lock
Take your uzi, put it 'pon lock

Black cop, black cop, black cop
Black cop, black cop, black cop

Don't be the sucker
Don't be the sucker
Don't be the sucker
Don't be the sucker, comin' into my face

Don't, don't be the sucker, comin' into my face
Don't, don't, don't be the sucker comin' into my face
Don't, don't, don't, don't
Don't be the sucker, comin' into my face

Don't, don't, don't, don't
Don't be the sucker, comin' into my face
Don't, don't, don't
Don't be the sucker, comin' into my face with that yang, yang

#

Songwriters: Lawrence KRS-One Parker

Another Wikipedia page mentions:

The track "Black Cop" was originally released as a 12" single and a track for the CB4 (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack), thus also labeled as a B.D.P. track.

 

[Person19960]

You don't even get paid a whole lot
Take your four, five and you put it 'pon lock
Take your M sixty and put it 'pon lock
Take your uzi, put it 'pon lock

I should note that these are the names of guns, and, the instructions to not fire the weapons. "Put (u)pon lock." Maybe he was giving Black cops a literal as well as figurative instruction, I don't know.

 

[Gospel]

KRS likens the police to slave overseers, suggesting that black cops, by joining a system historically designed to oppress us, aren't truly helping their own people.

 

[Person19960]

KRS likens the police to slave overseers, suggesting that black cops, by joining a system historically designed to oppress us, aren't truly helping their own people.

This is a public thread... but, I'll say, regarding this matter... I sometimes am less than polite to the po-pos, because I've been too close and seen too much; been totally not helped at all ever by them, because 911 *is* a joke...

If I have to engage with a Black cop, and I'm uncertain what kind of cop he is, I ask him, "Do you like rap?" That's me being rude. It goes like this and escalates: "Do you like rap? Do you like old school? East Coast? KRS-One? DO YOU KNOW WHY I AM ASKING. SIR."

If I like them or if they are cool? I would NEVER.

Old Philly cops, been around a while? pff. The song is about them. No way do I speak.

OH, BLACK WOMEN COPS?? I would never be so rude. I don't think I would ever want to be that rude to a female cop; and never to a Black woman.

There was that one time, but 1) she was white, and 2) I was trippn balls. I addressed her as

Spoiler

"YO, RED! EAT MY FKN C[-word]!"

anyway, I love KRS-One, always did. I know that he says shit I don't agree with. That's cool, I definitely say shit that he would not agree with. I don't think I'm gonna find out.

 

[Derec]

KRS likens the police to slave overseers, suggesting that black cops, by joining a system historically designed to oppress us, aren't truly helping their own people.

KRS1 also cheered when 9/11 happened. So this idiotic take by him is on brand.