Protesters Shut Down a Major Freeway In Minneapolis. Stage Die-In.

[bilby]

The only progress that has ever occurred is because people have taken to the streets.

The government is a force of stasis. It seeks to maintain the status quo.

The only time the government ever does anything positive is because people have taken to the streets and protested. At least beginning in the 20th Century.

The right of women to vote, the right of people to unionize, the right to a Social Security system, civil rights for blacks, the right to healthcare for the elderly.

These all began as people's movements. The government was opposed to every one of them for decades.

I encourage people to protest if the issue is that meaningful to them, but not in the middle of a busy freeway. I'm going to have to take issue with that.

The whole point of the exercise is to get noticed. I would say that blocking a busy freeway is an excellent way to achieve that goal.

Here we are, talking about it.

So that worked pretty well, then.

 

[Axulus]

I encourage people to protest if the issue is that meaningful to them, but not in the middle of a busy freeway. I'm going to have to take issue with that.

The whole point of the exercise is to get noticed. I would say that blocking a busy freeway is an excellent way to achieve that goal.

Here we are, talking about it.

So that worked pretty well, then.

The goal should be to get as much exposure as possible using legal mechanisms and doing it in such a way so that you aren't being an asshole to other people in the community. They fail at creativity.

 

[bilby]

The whole point of the exercise is to get noticed. I would say that blocking a busy freeway is an excellent way to achieve that goal.

Here we are, talking about it.

So that worked pretty well, then.

The goal should be to get as much exposure as possible using legal mechanisms and doing it in such a way so that you aren't being an asshole to other people in the community. They fail at creativity.

Experience shows that those who stay strictly within the law, and who take pains to avoid being assholes to anyone, get ignored.

It shouldn't be so; but as it is, they are doing the only thing they can do to get noticed.

The system fails at addressing concerns that are raised within the rules; so it is necessary to either put up with the status quo, or break the rules.

When you are one of the people in a society who can get what he wants while working within the rules, it is easy to represent those who cannot as assholes. But really, they are just doing what experience has taught them is their only option.

 

[thebeave]

Its possible to protest without blocking freeways or destroying property. I say this on the heels of a Berkeley protest this weekend that turned destructive:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Protesters-march-again-in-S-F-and-Berkeley-5940498.php

The confrontations followed a night in which hundreds of people marched through Berkeley, including what police described as “splinter groups” that vandalized cars, broke windows and looted businesses.
Organizers had planned a peaceful march, but windows were broken and wine bottles smashed at a Trader Joe’s store near Martin Luther King and University Avenue, while masked looters broke into a Radio Shack store and grabbed merchandise. Protesters also broke windows at a Wells Fargo Bank.
At about 7 p.m., the Berkeley BART Station was shut down by the disturbances, with the North Berkeley station closed an hour later.

Is there anyone who has now changed their view about police brutality after seeing looting and destruction? If anything, it has the opposite effect. If you're determined to do something non-sequitor in response to police brutality, why not bake some brownies or mow your lawn instead.

 

[bilby]

Its possible to protest without blocking freeways or destroying property. I say this on the heels of a Berkeley protest this weekend that turned destructive:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Protesters-march-again-in-S-F-and-Berkeley-5940498.php

The confrontations followed a night in which hundreds of people marched through Berkeley, including what police described as “splinter groups” that vandalized cars, broke windows and looted businesses.
Organizers had planned a peaceful march, but windows were broken and wine bottles smashed at a Trader Joe’s store near Martin Luther King and University Avenue, while masked looters broke into a Radio Shack store and grabbed merchandise. Protesters also broke windows at a Wells Fargo Bank.
At about 7 p.m., the Berkeley BART Station was shut down by the disturbances, with the North Berkeley station closed an hour later.

Is there anyone who has now changed their view about police brutality after seeing looting and destruction? If anything, it has the opposite effect. If you're determined to do something non-sequitor in response to police brutality, why not bake some brownies or mow your lawn instead.

Just as soon as the six o'clock news leads with "Hundreds attend brownie bake-off to protest police brutality" or "City lawns benefit from high levels of public distrust of cops", this might happen.

Right now, if you want your issue on the news, you have to break stuff and/or piss people off.

That's how it is; expressing surprise that the voiceless act in such ways in order to get noticed shows a serious lack of understanding of what is going on here.

Nobody cares if you bake brownies or mow lawns. Nobody cares if you write your local mayor, police chief or congressman (they have a stock reply letter, so you can get a response without the person in charge having to even be aware that your letter arrived at his office). Nobody cares about the problem until people start breaking stuff and/or making their lives harder.

99% of middle-class white males caught in traffic rant and rave and vow never to help those evil protesters who made them half an hour late for a meeting. But then, they were not planning to help them to begin with, so nothing is lost there. If 1% find the annoyance great enough to mention the issue elsewhere, maybe it will make it to the ear of someone who can do something productive. And if the news media pick it up, it is hard for police chiefs, mayors, or congressmen to completely ignore.

It's like spam - we all hate it, but it doesn't matter that 99.99999% of it gets deleted; it costs nothing to the sender of the message, so it isn't important that most of the recipients ignore it.

 

[thebeave]

All right, I'll meet you halfway. They can go to the local park or beach and cut the heads off of hundreds of kittens to protest police brutality. That will get them in the news, and thus the attention they want, without inconveniencing those of us who have work and family obligations to attend to. It's a win-win for everyone (except the kitties).

 

[bilby]

All right, I'll meet you halfway. They can go to the local park or beach and cut the heads off of hundreds of kittens to protest police brutality. That will get them in the news, and thus the attention they want, without inconveniencing those of us who have work and family obligations to attend to. It's a win-win for everyone (except the kitties).

You appear to be persisting in the error of assuming that the protesters give any more of a fuck about you, than you do about them.

They want to inconvenience you. They want you to care about them. Even being hated is better than being ignored.

 

[Bronzeage]

All right, I'll meet you halfway. They can go to the local park or beach and cut the heads off of hundreds of kittens to protest police brutality. That will get them in the news, and thus the attention they want, without inconveniencing those of us who have work and family obligations to attend to. It's a win-win for everyone (except the kitties).

You appear to be persisting in the error of assuming that the protesters give any more of a fuck about you, than you do about them.

They want to inconvenience you. They want you to care about them. Even being hated is better than being ignored.

There are many reasons to stage a protest demonstration, but the primary one is to get as much attention as possible. In a free society(I use the term loosely) injustice is allowed to persist because most people don't recognize it as an injustice. If you want attention, you have to get in someone's way.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Is there not a way to protest that will inconvenience and get the attention of the government or fast food owners or investors, etc, but not shut down rush hour traffic for people who have nothing to do with the particular conflicts? I mean if I am driving home and have to sit in traffic for hours because somebody wants higher wages at McDonalds, where I don't eat, don't work, don't invest in, have no power over, I will be mighty peeved, and I think rightfully so.

 

[bilby]

Is there not a way to protest that will inconvenience and get the attention of the government or fast food owners or investors, etc, but not shut down rush hour traffic for people who have nothing to do with the particular conflicts? I mean if I am driving home and have to sit in traffic for hours because somebody wants higher wages at McDonalds, where I don't eat, don't work, don't invest in, have no power over, I will be mighty peeved, and I think rightfully so.

They want to get the attention of the government, so they piss off the citizens - including you. That's the price of democracy.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Is there not a way to protest that will inconvenience and get the attention of the government or fast food owners or investors, etc, but not shut down rush hour traffic for people who have nothing to do with the particular conflicts? I mean if I am driving home and have to sit in traffic for hours because somebody wants higher wages at McDonalds, where I don't eat, don't work, don't invest in, have no power over, I will be mighty peeved, and I think rightfully so.

They want to get the attention of the government, so they piss off the citizens - including you. That's the price of democracy.

But what if pissing me off makes me vote against their interests? Why would I be more inclined to support them if they go out of their way to get in my way?

 

[bilby]

They want to get the attention of the government, so they piss off the citizens - including you. That's the price of democracy.

But what if pissing me off makes me vote against their interests? Why would I be more inclined to support them if they go out of their way to get in my way?

They don't expect your support, whether they piss you off or not.

Your support is irrelevant. They want people to stop ignoring them.

Please don't try to tell me that you would have paid the slightest attention to their plight had they not protested in a way that annoyed you. I wouldn't believe you, and more importantly, nor would they.

It is basic human nature to prefer to be hated over being ignored.

 

[Axulus]

Is there not a way to protest that will inconvenience and get the attention of the government or fast food owners or investors, etc, but not shut down rush hour traffic for people who have nothing to do with the particular conflicts? I mean if I am driving home and have to sit in traffic for hours because somebody wants higher wages at McDonalds, where I don't eat, don't work, don't invest in, have no power over, I will be mighty peeved, and I think rightfully so.

They want to get the attention of the government, so they piss off the citizens - including you. That's the price of democracy.

If the only way to get people to pay attention to your message is to be an asshole, perhaps the message might be a bit lacking in merit.

 

[Clivedurdle]

I don't give a flying fuck what your precious cause is. If you purposefully stop traffic while I'm on the highway, <snip>. Whatever message you hope to convey will be completely lost in my hatred for you.

I get the impression no one actually read the first couple of paras of what I posted earlier.

https://archive.org/stream/AmazingStoriesVolume02Number11#page/n29/mode/2up

 

[bilby]

They want to get the attention of the government, so they piss off the citizens - including you. That's the price of democracy.

If the only way to get people to pay attention to your message is to be an asshole, perhaps the message might be a bit lacking in merit.

Or perhaps the messenger is all out of options. Being marginalised is not necessarily a sign that your concerns lack merit.

 

[RavenSky]

They want to get the attention of the government, so they piss off the citizens - including you. That's the price of democracy.

But what if pissing me off makes me vote against their interests? Why would I be more inclined to support them if they go out of their way to get in my way?

You would let a momentary emotion supercede rational thought about the issue?

Personally, I don't like the demonstrations that block streets either... or the sporting events that block streets... or the marathons that block streets... or the book fairs that block streets... or the concerts that block streets... all of these things inconvenience me when I'm just trying to get to work on time. But I am not going to "vote against" them because I need to plan around these activities once a year (or once in a lifetime wrt the protests)

Frankly, if people are stuck in traffic for hours because of these protests, this is as much the fault of the local authorities as the protestors.

 

[untermensche]

The only progress that has ever occurred is because people have taken to the streets.

The government is a force of stasis. It seeks to maintain the status quo.

The only time the government ever does anything positive is because people have taken to the streets and protested. At least beginning in the 20th Century.

The right of women to vote, the right of people to unionize, the right to a Social Security system, civil rights for blacks, the right to healthcare for the elderly.

These all began as people's movements. The government was opposed to every one of them for decades.

I encourage people to protest if the issue is that meaningful to them, but not in the middle of a busy freeway. I'm going to have to take issue with that.

Some would say shooting and choking to death unarmed people is a lot worse than holding up traffic.

But protests that don't bother anybody never changed anything.

 

[RavenSky]

How many people here have actually witnessed in person (not just on television/social media even if the protest was in your city) one of these "Hands up, don't shoot / Can't breathe" marches?

How many people have ever witnessed in person (not just on television/social media even if the event was in your city) any type of parade, marathon, art fair, book fair or other event that caused streets in your city to be temporarily blocked off?

 

[dismal]

Is there not a way to protest that will inconvenience and get the attention of the government or fast food owners or investors, etc, but not shut down rush hour traffic for people who have nothing to do with the particular conflicts? I mean if I am driving home and have to sit in traffic for hours because somebody wants higher wages at McDonalds, where I don't eat, don't work, don't invest in, have no power over, I will be mighty peeved, and I think rightfully so.

They want to get the attention of the government, so they piss off the citizens - including you. That's the price of democracy.

Democracy is the place where we elected representatives that passed laws against obstructing freeways.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Well, now they are getting plenty of media attention.

- - - Updated - - -

They want to get the attention of the government, so they piss off the citizens - including you. That's the price of democracy.

Democracy is the place where we elected representatives that passed laws against obstructing freeways.

And it is also the place where police officers enforce petty crimes by executing the suspect.