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Racism And Kamala Harris


So, tell me about the Republican challengers to Trump for the Republican candidate for POTUS.
Tom
To be sure, the other candidates were not much competition for Trump unfortunately. But at least the Republicans presidential primaries gave the people a fair opportunity to elect someone different.
Who would have thought? Policy might trump (pun very much intended) prom queen bullshit. I'm going to point out to you RVonse as you are ignorant that all the Republican nominees in the primary were willing to forgive Trump of al of his crimes.

All

Of

His

Crimes.

And you still call that a choice. Let me be the first to tell you that is a lie. That is a cult.
 
This is how it will happen:

And what is the process by which 1 in 20 become citizens???

His claim simply makes no sense. You'll do better to assume anything he says these days is false.

Even if that held any water whatsoever - which of course it does not - it'd still be the Republican Party's own dumbass fault. The conservative Catholics, Buddhists, and Muslims who constitute the majority of asylum seekers don't just naturally trend Democratic, the Republican party had to work hard to offend and alienate immigrant communities, betraying their own supposed values of capitalism, meritocracy and empire along the way just so they could take racist jabs at some new neighbors. In the long run, this nativist bullshit the Right has been peddling is a cyanide pill, and they've no one but themselves to blame for taking it. This country was never going to become a White's Only paradise. That's just a fantasy, and not even a nice fantasy. Who even wants that? You can atir up some ignorant yokels with that kind of talk, but the majority of Americans never volunteered to try again for Apartheid.
 
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More concisely, even if it were true that the Democratic Party were generally more racist, to conclude that any individual Democrat is a racist is a sweeping generalization fallacy.
You;'re not wrong... but I'll also point out that the tendency to accurately identify a fallacy when it's used by one group, while failing to identify the exact same fallacy when used by a different group is itself a fallacy.
Not necessarily. Could be hypocrisy.
Fiar point.
 
So, tell me about the Republican challengers to Trump for the Republican candidate for POTUS.
Tom
To be sure, the other candidates were not much competition for Trump unfortunately. But at least the Republicans presidential primaries gave the people a fair opportunity to elect someone different.
Umm... I disagree.

DNC technically ran several people during their primaries, but Harris wasn't one of them because she was presumed to be retained as VP on the incumbent ticket.

But I don't think that either party gave the people a fair opportunity to elect someone different. Everyone except Trump and Biden had dropped out of the race completely by the time the first 5 primaries were done - leaving 45 states with no voice in the primary at all. And although it's speculation, I strongly suspect that the parties themselves did a whole lot to pressure candidates to drop out.

The citizens didn't get much of a voice in selecting their candidates from either DNC or GOP.
 
The logic is anything but logical. Trump has stated that he would be a dictator in day one and has told voters that if they vote for him, they won’t need to vote ever again.
Technically, Trump said he might be a dictator for one day, and in context it was pretty obviously humorous. It has been repeated ad nauseum that Trump has declared outright that he would become a dictator from day one, and that characterization has been adopted as gospel truth.

Similarly, in context, Trump was telling a group of people who tend not to bother voting that it was important that they vote this time... and that he would get the country on track again, and that audience can go back to not voting in the future. He did not state nor imply that he would be president for life.

This is a big part of the problem - a politician says something that can be interpreted to mean something different, especially if taken out of context. That politician's opposition then take that out of context mischaracterization, and present it as if that's the only possible or reasonable interpretation. That mischaracterization gets repeated and amplified over and over again... until many people believe that the lie they've been told must be the truth, because they've heard it from so many people.

It happens to Harris too. Just look at the compilation of "what can be, unburdened by what has been" presented over and over and over. It's something she says a lot, and by itself it is completely devoid of any meaning whatsoever. But opponents to Harris present the many cases of her saying that phrase as if that's the entirety of her position... and they insinuate that it's a dog whistle for communism because it bears similarity to a phrase from Marx.
 
I don't think Trump's "dictator for day one only" was a joke at all -- it didn't come off as humor. He has repeated the thought again and again, without a hint that he's making a funny. It's astonishing to hear anyone running for the presidency in a democracy state that he'll need even a second to act dictatorially. So those who ran with the quote while deleting the "day one only" can be criticized for the omission, but, if Day One would consist of issuing orders to mobilize the army to do ICE work, signing an EO to get rid of civil service standards, another EO making loyalty oaths a requirement for working in the federal government, another EO ordering the FBI to investigate political foes...the list is endless, and Trump will have staff constructing a blizzard of such signings, if he prevails in three weeks....to finish my sentence: if that's Day One, our way of self-governance is over and will have to be reconstructed by some future generation.
It is beyond obvious how Trump admires dictators. He praises Viktor Orban for ruling with ruthlessness -- praises Xi Jinping ("He runs 1.4 billion people with an iron hand"), has never described Putin as the murderous crime boss that he is -- in fact, as President, he unbelievably brushed off a reporter's citation of murders ordered by Putin by saying (paraphrase here, but close), "Don't kid yourself that we haven't killed people here." Putin and Xi will be overjoyed if Trump wins -- Ukraine will be starved for munitions and Taiwan will have no support whatever if Xi invades. NATO will again face a hostile U.S., which means our western allies will see us as backstabbing traitors.
Trump has spoken this week of the need to use the National Guard or even the army to put down the "enemy inside", the radical Left. He of course has said he's going to weed out and expel the "vermin" who oppose him. He thinks CBS should lose its broadcasting license because he didn't like how Kamala Harris was 'coddled' on 60 Minutes. The Haitian immigrants that he's demonized will find their visas cancelled and be part of Trump's mass deportation nightmare -- since he's talking multi-millions of people he intends to kick out, just imagine the American gulag he'll have to construct. The paranoia and sociopathy of Trump is bottomless. We will have an ugly mess of a country if he gets in again.
 
When a presidential candidate tells you he plans to become a dictator, you should believe him.

If it turns out that he was actually joking, then he probably isn't taking the role seriously enough to deserve your vote anyway; And it's not as though he was a great non-dictatorial president the first time around. If his second term were expected to be as wildly successful as his first, his missing out on it would be no great loss to America.
 
Technically, Trump said he might be a dictator for one day, and in context it was pretty obviously humorous. It has been repeated ad nauseum that Trump has declared outright that he would become a dictator from day one, and that characterization has been adopted as gospel truth.
Can you cite anything he's said that contradicts the "gospel truth"?
 
The logic is anything but logical. Trump has stated that he would be a dictator in day one and has told voters that if they vote for him, they won’t need to vote ever again.
Technically, Trump said he might be a dictator for one day, and in context it was pretty obviously humorous. It has been repeated ad nauseum that Trump has declared outright that he would become a dictator from day one, and that characterization has been adopted as gospel truth.

Similarly, in context, Trump was telling a group of people who tend not to bother voting that it was important that they vote this time... and that he would get the country on track again, and that audience can go back to not voting in the future. He did not state nor imply that he would be president for life.

This is a big part of the problem - a politician says something that can be interpreted to mean something different, especially if taken out of context. That politician's opposition then take that out of context mischaracterization, and present it as if that's the only possible or reasonable interpretation. That mischaracterization gets repeated and amplified over and over again... until many people believe that the lie they've been told must be the truth, because they've heard it from so many people.

It happens to Harris too. Just look at the compilation of "what can be, unburdened by what has been" presented over and over and over. It's something she says a lot, and by itself it is completely devoid of any meaning whatsoever. But opponents to Harris present the many cases of her saying that phrase as if that's the entirety of her position... and they insinuate that it's a dog whistle for communism because it bears similarity to a phrase from Marx.
I see you are spouting GQP party lines.

What Harris is talking about is hope and moving past ugly history.

Trump promises more of the same, uses a LOT of violent rhetoric, makes ugly statements about women, black people, immigrants, and his political opponents. He threatens retaliation against those who oppose him. He is extremely fascist-adjacent , and here, I am being kind.

I realize that Trump supporters like to excuse his horrific statements as jokes or just politicking, but I don’t think he has an actual sense of humor. But then, as don’t think calling people insulting names is any funnier than pulling the wings off of butterflies.

I fully recognize that all politicians gains are flawed human beings, as are we all. But I also think that character counts and to me, it counts more than any political party line or policy.

Trump’s character has shown that he respects no one except dictators, that his early business model involved racism, that he neither understands or agrees with the US Constitution, that he cares about people only to the extent that they can do favors for him. His loyalty is a one way street. He cares only about himself. He is a convicted felon c 34 and counting, and if he were any other person, he would be in prison. He has been adjudicated liable for rape and there are MANY individuals who have come forth with claims of varying degrees of sexual assault. He ridicules disabled people, has referred to military as suckers and losers. He openly invited interference in the 2016 election—from a foreign enemy. He bragged about walking into the dressing area of young girls and women competing in a competition he purchased—presumably to have such access. He trades in racism and fear and distrust.

That is for starters. There is absolutely nothing about him that indicates he should run a raffle, much less a country.

If all that speaks to you, then there really is nothing left to say.
 
The logic is anything but logical. Trump has stated that he would be a dictator in day one and has told voters that if they vote for him, they won’t need to vote ever again.
Technically, Trump said he might be a dictator for one day, and in context it was pretty obviously humorous. It has been repeated ad nauseum that Trump has declared outright that he would become a dictator from day one, and that characterization has been adopted as gospel truth.

Similarly, in context, Trump was telling a group of people who tend not to bother voting that it was important that they vote this time... and that he would get the country on track again, and that audience can go back to not voting in the future. He did not state nor imply that he would be president for life.

This is a big part of the problem - a politician says something that can be interpreted to mean something different, especially if taken out of context. That politician's opposition then take that out of context mischaracterization, and present it as if that's the only possible or reasonable interpretation. That mischaracterization gets repeated and amplified over and over again... until many people believe that the lie they've been told must be the truth, because they've heard it from so many people.

It happens to Harris too. Just look at the compilation of "what can be, unburdened by what has been" presented over and over and over. It's something she says a lot, and by itself it is completely devoid of any meaning whatsoever. But opponents to Harris present the many cases of her saying that phrase as if that's the entirety of her position... and they insinuate that it's a dog whistle for communism because it bears similarity to a phrase from Marx.
If it was a "joke", why hasn't he said so? Sean Hannity basically begged him to on-air, and Trump refused to. You may be embarrased by his ambitions, but Trump himself is not.
 
You may be embarrased by his ambitions, but Trump himself is not.
Sounds to me like *someone* is vying for the title of Superapologist.
Such impressive contortions.

Don’t mind the elephant in the room or its elephant footprints or the huge piles of elephant dung, it’s really just a puppy and you can’t tell me otherwise!
 
I've lost track of the number of times I've been told that being an Independent makes me just as bad as the most rabid evil trumpsucker maggat fascist nazi to ever breathe.
I consider myself to be independent as well.

They say that during the French Revolution the independents and peacemakers were the very first to lose their heads. Because rather than seeing your independent idea's both sides thing you are completely against them.

Americans claiming to be "independents" but are not politically independent are quite common. See this Pew Research article:

Political Independents: Who They Are, What They Think


Independents often are portrayed as political free agents with the potential to alleviate the nation’s rigid partisan divisions. Yet the reality is that most independents are not all that “independent” politically. And the small share of Americans who are truly independent – less than 10% of the public has no partisan leaning – stand out for their low level of interest in politics...

See the article for more detail.

Independents don't lack opinions, nor do we lack policy preferences. Most of us lean more toward one side or the other, but almost all of us have a *mix* of positions. There are some conservative positions that I favor - gun rights is up toward the top of that list. There are some liberal positions that I favor - comprehensive publicly funded education is one. Almost all independents hold a mix of views that aren't all on one side or the other.

What makes us independent is a lack of party loyalty, and a lack of dedication to one side or the other. We generally tend to think that the sides are stupid, ineffective, and divisive. Most independents have a history of NOT voting along party lines. Our ballots tend to reflect a mix of choices. I've voted for a mix of presidents, some of whom were Republican, some of whom were Democrats, some were Third Parties. I've tended toward Republican senators and Democrat representatives. I tend toward more liberal candidates in social and educational roles within my state, and more conservative candidates in fiscal and judiciary roles. I've never voted a single party straight down the line, because my mix of personal values doesn't lend itself to that... and I think it's just plain dumb to do so.

I'm absolutely NOT interested in having a single party have dominance in government. I WANT a mix, even if it's a contentious mix.
This very much describes me. It astounds me how ideological some (most?) people are on this forum which is supposedly dedicated to free thought, free inquiry and skepticism. I always imagined a rational free thinker would be free of any political ideology in much the same way he/she would be free of religious ideology. It is what drew me to this forum in the first place 20+ years ago. Things seem to have changed.
Indeed, but not exactly in the way you are trying to hoist yourself on a pedestal over. We have libertarians and conservatives here that are in the Democrat camp now because of how things have changed.

The strange thing about Emily's objection is that the party that lost the election in 2020 tried to steal it back. Not just Trump, but the majority of the GOP in the House, and they tried to strong arm the Vice President into it as well. The portion of the GOP that pushed back... is being aged/phased out of the GOP.

I'd rather have a bit of push back with the minority party. I can say I have voted for a Republican for a competitive US Senate seat. But right now, the choice is the Democrats or the Party that conspired to steal an election. It shouldn't be that simple, but unfortunately it is. I had endure all of the whining about Lewinsky and political honor in the White House. I had to listen to conservatives go on and on about adherence to the Constitution. Yet, they'll vote for Trump... three times... after he violated all of the principles these people alleged to say were important and mattered.
 
I'd prefer straight D over a mix or straight R.
One party rule? Are you sure? That sounds more like the Peoples Republic of China than democracy to me.

if anything there needs to be more party's and more choices. Not monopoly in government. Even if you might believe one of the current party's is insane.
“One party rule”? The Democrats are not some hive mind monolith like the Chinese Communist Party,
Really? Who picked Kamala to be the Democrats POTUS nominee? And for that matter, who decided Joe Biden should not remain in the running?
The delegates selected Harris.
If not for the electoral college we would already be in a 1 party state.
Perhaps in the Executive Branch, but what about the Legislative Branch? The part that passes the laws? Well, used to at least.
 
I don't think Trump's "dictator for day one only" was a joke at all -- it didn't come off as humor. He has repeated the thought again and again, without a hint that he's making a funny. It's astonishing to hear anyone running for the presidency in a democracy state that he'll need even a second to act dictatorially. So those who ran with the quote while deleting the "day one only" can be criticized for the omission, but, if Day One would consist of
I can also speculate about all kinds of hypotheticals that would result in one day only being forever. But I do recognize that such speculation is speculation.

Trump sucks, there are many, many things I very strongly dislike about him. He sucks enough that I don't think there's any need to invent or embellish in order to make him look bad.
 
Technically, Trump said he might be a dictator for one day, and in context it was pretty obviously humorous. It has been repeated ad nauseum that Trump has declared outright that he would become a dictator from day one, and that characterization has been adopted as gospel truth.
Can you cite anything he's said that contradicts the "gospel truth"?
Still waiting.

I think you're using the argument from incredulity fallacy. You don't believe Trump would really do it so it must not be true. You're basically asking us to not believe our eyes and ears.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
 
Technically, Trump said he might be a dictator for one day, and in context it was pretty obviously humorous. It has been repeated ad nauseum that Trump has declared outright that he would become a dictator from day one, and that characterization has been adopted as gospel truth.
Can you cite anything he's said that contradicts the "gospel truth"?
Still waiting.

I think you're using the argument from incredulity fallacy. You don't believe Trump would really do it so it must not be true. You're basically asking us to not believe our eyes and ears.
No, I'm not asking you to not believe your eyes and ears. I'm asking you not to swallow what interpreters tell you whole sale.

You're asking me to give you cited sources that contradict something Trump didn't say. I don't know how you expect that to happen, but hey, as soon as I find that I'll also give you the absolute incontrovertible proof that there is no teapot orbiting mercury.

Trump is bad enough that you shouldn't have to exaggerate and make things up. You shouldn't have to mischaracterize and take things out of context, and pretend they mean something different.

When all of the argumentation that you here relies on amplifying and repeating a hyperbolized mischaracterization... don't you think you should exercise just a tiny bit of skepticism?

I *know* why I dislike Trump. I *know* what characteristics I find undesirable in a politician. None of it relies on the much-repeated "existential threat to democracy" rhetoric. And I dislike him intensely and don't want him as president while also simultaneously recognizing the propagandized messaging for what it is.

I *know* what I dislike about Harris, and none of that relies on hyperbolic narratives either. And I can dislike her positions while simultaneously acknowledging the manipulation going on by her opponents.
 
Technically, Trump said he might be a dictator for one day, and in context it was pretty obviously humorous. It has been repeated ad nauseum that Trump has declared outright that he would become a dictator from day one, and that characterization has been adopted as gospel truth.
Can you cite anything he's said that contradicts the "gospel truth"?
Still waiting.

I think you're using the argument from incredulity fallacy. You don't believe Trump would really do it so it must not be true. You're basically asking us to not believe our eyes and ears.
No, I'm not asking you to not believe your eyes and ears. I'm asking you not to swallow what interpreters tell you whole sale.
Do you think we are stupid or do you just not read our posts? We are not citing interpreters. We are citing trump's own words.

You're asking me to give you cited sources that contradict something Trump didn't say. I don't know how you expect that to happen, but hey, as soon as I find that I'll also give you the absolute incontrovertible proof that there is no teapot orbiting mercury.
That's the problem. Trump doesn't say anything to contradict his own terrible statements.

Trump is bad enough that you shouldn't have to exaggerate and make things up. You shouldn't have to mischaracterize and take things out of context, and pretend they mean something different.

When all of the argumentation that you here relies on amplifying and repeating a hyperbolized mischaracterization... don't you think you should exercise just a tiny bit of skepticism?
This isn't a long thread. Cite the posts that you think are "hyperbolized mischaracterizations." Don't just say we are doing something without proof. That's not having a discussion or an argument. That's just bitching.


 
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