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Rape culture: British Style

It wasnt till I read your take on the poster that i saw that point. Whether you like the fact or not, the poster its a warning, just as a warning sign in a subway about pickpockets is a warning. You never think when you see that sign that 'oh yeah sure blame the victim'.

To be honest there is a far way from blaming the victim here, although I agree that is generally is a problem. Here its simply an overreaction...

Googling pickpocket signs, they all say something to the effect of "Beware of pickpockets" or "High risk pickpocket area". One said "The world's best pickpockets are here. Stay alert." Even the one that came the closest to being a parallel poster said: "Warning - Thieves operate in this area. Keep handbags - purses - wallets safe"

So if we are to use the pickpocket warnings as a guide, the OP sign should actually read: "Warning - rapists operate in this area. Stay alert to keep yourself safe."

Do you see the difference?
 
It wasnt till I read your take on the poster that i saw that point. Whether you like the fact or not, the poster its a warning, just as a warning sign in a subway about pickpockets is a warning. You never think when you see that sign that 'oh yeah sure blame the victim'.

To be honest there is a far way from blaming the victim here, although I agree that is generally is a problem. Here its simply an overreaction...

Googling pickpocket signs, they all say something to the effect of "Beware of pickpockets" or "High risk pickpocket area". One said "The world's best pickpockets are here. Stay alert." Even the one that came the closest to being a parallel poster said: "Warning - Thieves operate in this area. Keep handbags - purses - wallets safe"

So if we are to use the pickpocket warnings as a guide, the OP sign should actually read: "Warning - rapists operate in this area. Stay alert to keep yourself safe."

Do you see the difference?

Why not both?
5144Fd7gB8L._SY300_.jpg
 
Are men counseled to not accept opened drinks at parties as well? Seriously, I'm asking.

My daughter was nearly white with rage when I talked to her about all the ways she needed to be careful--not just at parties. And legitimately so. My intent was not to imply that she would carry any blame if she were attacked. My intent was to do a better job than my own mother did. My mother told me that if a boy touched me, I should come to her and not to my father because my father would kill him. I delayed dating until long after most of my friends dated and then only under very controlled circumstances--group situations, guys I knew well and trusted. BTW, the two guys who attacked me did not attack me in a date situation nor in a party situation.

My daughters wondered what cautions I gave her brothers. Which were basically: if you are at a party, watch your own drink, No means no, no matter what and no matter what, use a condom unless you hope to become a father.

I don't know about other guys, but my mother told me about watching my drink, and not accepting open drinks from others. Rape isn't the only motivation to spike someone else's drink. Robbery & violence, in general, are also things to be considered. She also told me that no means no, and to use condoms as not all women who say they're on the pill are telling the truth and some have STDs. She gave me books about VD, back when STDs/STIs were more commonly called that, and drug abuse. Discussions, and books about these types of things started in elementary school.

Yes, but I didn't feel the need to tell my sons to be careful how they dressed or not to walk home alone, among other things.
 
It wasnt till I read your take on the poster that i saw that point. Whether you like the fact or not, the poster its a warning, just as a warning sign in a subway about pickpockets is a warning. You never think when you see that sign that 'oh yeah sure blame the victim'.

To be honest there is a far way from blaming the victim here, although I agree that is generally is a problem. Here its simply an overreaction...

Googling pickpocket signs, they all say something to the effect of "Beware of pickpockets" or "High risk pickpocket area". One said "The world's best pickpockets are here. Stay alert." Even the one that came the closest to being a parallel poster said: "Warning - Thieves operate in this area. Keep handbags - purses - wallets safe"

So if we are to use the pickpocket warnings as a guide, the OP sign should actually read: "Warning - rapists operate in this area. Stay alert to keep yourself safe."

Do you see the difference?

Actually no, I don't see the difference. Thats why I read the sign as a warning sign, not as blame on the victims.
 
It wasnt till I read your take on the poster that i saw that point. Whether you like the fact or not, the poster its a warning, just as a warning sign in a subway about pickpockets is a warning. You never think when you see that sign that 'oh yeah sure blame the victim'.

To be honest there is a far way from blaming the victim here, although I agree that is generally is a problem. Here its simply an overreaction...

nah

- - - Updated - - -

Let me turn the question around. Your really drunk friend wants to go home through a park where its known that rapists hide around. Would you warn her? Or would that also be blaming the victim?

keep 'em coming!
 
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/4/5966593/anti-rape-campaign-victim-blaming

article-2706734-2004332500000578-978_306x440.jpg


well done . . . :golfclap:

Let me turn the question around. Your really drunk friend wants to go home through a park where its known that rapists hide around. Would you warn her? Or would that also be blaming the victim?

I would take my friend home, as I would any friend so drunk as to think walking in a park after dark alone is a good idea..

But that's just me.
 
I was born in the 70s and the first exposure to spiking someone's drink I was exposed to was from TV shows. It was always women slipping the male victim's drink so they could rob him. Then the crime show detectives would figure out the case. Sometimes it was Quincy, M.E. explaining how the men died from the drugging then he would find the women responsible and why they did it.

It was only later in the 80s when I started hearing about date rape drugs and the threat they posed to women. But I never thought the media was blaming the victim in either case.
 
I don't know about other guys, but my mother told me about watching my drink, and not accepting open drinks from others. Rape isn't the only motivation to spike someone else's drink. Robbery & violence, in general, are also things to be considered. She also told me that no means no, and to use condoms as not all women who say they're on the pill are telling the truth and some have STDs. She gave me books about VD, back when STDs/STIs were more commonly called that, and drug abuse. Discussions, and books about these types of things started in elementary school.

Yes, but I didn't feel the need to tell my sons to be careful how they dressed or not to walk home alone, among other things.

Rape isn't the only type of violence that can occur. Boys can be, and often are, victims of violence. How you dress does affect, rightly or wrongly, other people's perception of you. This applies to both males & females, though the particulars likely differ. (girls being perceived sexually while boys being perceived as threatening)
 
Yes, but I didn't feel the need to tell my sons to be careful how they dressed or not to walk home alone, among other things.

Rape isn't the only type of violence that can occur. Boys can be, and often are, victims of violence. How you dress does affect, rightly or wrongly, other people's perception of you. This applies to both males & females, though the particulars likely differ. (girls being perceived sexually while boys being perceived as threatening)

Boys are not told that they really wanted to be shot, beat up or robbed.
 
Rape isn't the only type of violence that can occur. Boys can be, and often are, victims of violence. How you dress does affect, rightly or wrongly, other people's perception of you. This applies to both males & females, though the particulars likely differ. (girls being perceived sexually while boys being perceived as threatening)

Boys are not told that they really wanted to be shot, beat up or robbed.

I didn't say that they were, or that it's okay to say similar statements to girls or women about being raped. My only point is that such perceptions are not limited to females, nothing more.
 
Would telling women not to accept opened drinks at parties also be blaming the victim?
Usually, such advice lacks the specific of "not accept opened drinks from anyone no matter how well you think you know that person". In my case, the actual helpful advice would have been termed as :

- You are such a trusting young woman. Beware that in your dating with your boy friend, no matter how much you may think he can never hurt you, no matter how much you think he respects your will, he may be aware of how your trusting character will disable your ability to detect red flags. Beware that some folks are very skilled at manipulating others into bringing their guards down. They make you feel so safe and understood and appreciated and valued as you are.

You are so vulnerable, my darling daughter. This is your first boy friend ever. You feel so flattered and validated by this most popular and attractive guy giving you the romantic attention you had never received before. The people who are most tempted to harm us are those who know our humanity, strengths and vulnerability. Do not reveal them so much and so openly. Save your trust for someone who will have been tested by life events/circumstances. "

If I knew to not accept open drinks from strangers, no one ever gave me the advice above. No one cared enough about me to equip me with the will to preserve and protect myself from anyone susceptible to exploit my trust in them. The thought was never in my mind that evening when Eric handed me an open soda. The thought that he could harm me because I had invested so much trust in him.

If I did not blame myself for accepting an open drink, I blamed myself for a long time for trusting so openly and candidly.
 
It wasnt till I read your take on the poster that i saw that point. Whether you like the fact or not, the poster its a warning, just as a warning sign in a subway about pickpockets is a warning. You never think when you see that sign that 'oh yeah sure blame the victim'.

To be honest there is a far way from blaming the victim here, although I agree that is generally is a problem. Here its simply an overreaction...

Googling pickpocket signs, they all say something to the effect of "Beware of pickpockets" or "High risk pickpocket area". One said "The world's best pickpockets are here. Stay alert." Even the one that came the closest to being a parallel poster said: "Warning - Thieves operate in this area. Keep handbags - purses - wallets safe"

So if we are to use the pickpocket warnings as a guide, the OP sign should actually read: "Warning - rapists operate in this area. Stay alert to keep yourself safe."

Do you see the difference?

The parallel is not a geographic area, but a physical state. Pickpockets might target people in a crowded square; rapists might target women who are drunk.
 
Are men counseled to not accept opened drinks at parties as well? Seriously, I'm asking.

I can speak only for my own experience, but the men (and women) in my family were never counselled about anything sexual. Sex was what happened on your wedding night between a good Catholic girl and a good Catholic boy.

My daughter was nearly white with rage when I talked to her about all the ways she needed to be careful--not just at parties. And legitimately so. My intent was not to imply that she would carry any blame if she were attacked. My intent was to do a better job than my own mother did. My mother told me that if a boy touched me, I should come to her and not to my father because my father would kill him. I delayed dating until long after most of my friends dated and then only under very controlled circumstances--group situations, guys I knew well and trusted. BTW, the two guys who attacked me did not attack me in a date situation nor in a party situation.

It's unfair that women need to take more precautions against rape than men, but it's a brute fact that they're more likely to be victims. So I've never understood why there seems to be so much protest about informing women of ways to reduce their likelihood of victimhood.

As a child, I was taught that when crossing the road, even at a pedestrian crossing, be alert and continue to look in both directions as you cross. I never interpreted this as 'you deserve to be hit by a car if you don't.'
 
Googling pickpocket signs, they all say something to the effect of "Beware of pickpockets" or "High risk pickpocket area". One said "The world's best pickpockets are here. Stay alert." Even the one that came the closest to being a parallel poster said: "Warning - Thieves operate in this area. Keep handbags - purses - wallets safe"

So if we are to use the pickpocket warnings as a guide, the OP sign should actually read: "Warning - rapists operate in this area. Stay alert to keep yourself safe."

Do you see the difference?

Actually no, I don't see the difference. Thats why I read the sign as a warning sign, not as blame on the victims.

You seriously don't see the difference? Can you find me any pickpocket warning that says something like "1 out of 3 pickpocket victims were drunk at the time they were robbed"
 
Googling pickpocket signs, they all say something to the effect of "Beware of pickpockets" or "High risk pickpocket area". One said "The world's best pickpockets are here. Stay alert." Even the one that came the closest to being a parallel poster said: "Warning - Thieves operate in this area. Keep handbags - purses - wallets safe"

So if we are to use the pickpocket warnings as a guide, the OP sign should actually read: "Warning - rapists operate in this area. Stay alert to keep yourself safe."

Do you see the difference?

The parallel is not a geographic area, but a physical state. Pickpockets might target people in a crowded square; rapists might target women who are drunk.
So I will ask you - can you find me a pickpocket warning poster that says something like "One in three reported robberies happen when the victim is in a crowded square" complete with an unflattering photo of the victim.
 
I can speak only for my own experience, but the men (and women) in my family were never counselled about anything sexual. Sex was what happened on your wedding night between a good Catholic girl and a good Catholic boy.

My daughter was nearly white with rage when I talked to her about all the ways she needed to be careful--not just at parties. And legitimately so. My intent was not to imply that she would carry any blame if she were attacked. My intent was to do a better job than my own mother did. My mother told me that if a boy touched me, I should come to her and not to my father because my father would kill him. I delayed dating until long after most of my friends dated and then only under very controlled circumstances--group situations, guys I knew well and trusted. BTW, the two guys who attacked me did not attack me in a date situation nor in a party situation.

It's unfair that women need to take more precautions against rape than men, but it's a brute fact that they're more likely to be victims. So I've never understood why there seems to be so much protest about informing women of ways to reduce their likelihood of victimhood.

As a child, I was taught that when crossing the road, even at a pedestrian crossing, be alert and continue to look in both directions as you cross. I never interpreted this as 'you deserve to be hit by a car if you don't.'


It's not the warning of women that is problem, but the lack of warning for men.

I have been looking at the "Don't be that guy" campaign all morning and that's what we need more of.

That campaign is being credited with a ten percent drop in sexual assault cases in western Canada.
 
The parallel is not a geographic area, but a physical state. Pickpockets might target people in a crowded square; rapists might target women who are drunk.
So I will ask you - can you find me a pickpocket warning poster that says something like "One in three reported robberies happen when the victim is in a crowded square" complete with an unflattering photo of the victim.

No, I can't find such a sign because I haven't documented anti-pickpocketing measures and it would have to be formulated differently anyway to make sense.

I'm simply stating that both such signs are intended to serve as warnings, and offer advice on how to mitigate the risk of being a victim.

(Unless you think women spend a third of their lives drunk, there is obviously an association between the circumstances of drunkenness and becoming a rape victim).
 
It's not the warning of women that is problem, but the lack of warning for men.

I have been looking at the "Don't be that guy" campaign all morning and that's what we need more of.

That campaign is being credited with a ten percent drop in sexual assault cases in western Canada.

http://www.theviolencestopshere.ca/dbtg.php

If we saw these posters literally side-by-side with the one in the OP, I think I might be ok with that. Taken together it conveys the message that "drunken hook-up sex" too often isn't - it's rape. What do you think?
 
Actually, I'm wondering when we will start seeing signs that instruct guys not to drink too much so that they can avoid being victims of rape. Or avoid being rapists.

Or just signs that say: no means no. And drunk= no consent.
 
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