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Remember, Antifa only attacks fascists, right?

Your words, as usual, indicate you have no ideological understanding of fascism, its history, the various antifascist movements that have opposed it, and their relationship to power structures in society.

Your claim is as unsupported as it is fallacious. Just because someone opposes an evil movement doesn't mean they are good - they could be a competing evil.

It does sometimes happen in history that you have two evil groups fighting each other. When they do, that doesn't mean either of them should be declared "the good guy". That is why Antifa isn't "the good guy" just because these wanna-be brutal authoritarians are opposing other wanna-be brutal authoritarians. It is one of the great fallacies of our age that when you see two groups fighting each other you must figure out which of them are the good guy and support that one. Sometimes neither side is good.

Guilty as charged--I am 100% biased in favor of anti-fascism. You got me.

How do you feel about competing brutal authoritarian dictatorial systems such as the ideas espoused by Antifa?
 
Your words, as usual, indicate you have no ideological understanding of fascism, its history, the various antifascist movements that have opposed it, and their relationship to power structures in society.

Your claim is as unsupported as it is fallacious. Just because someone opposes an evil movement doesn't mean they are good - they could be a competing evil.

It does sometimes happen in history that you have two evil groups fighting each other. When they do, that doesn't mean either of them should be declared "the good guy". That is why Antifa isn't "the good guy" just because these wanna-be brutal authoritarians are opposing other wanna-be brutal authoritarians. It is one of the great fallacies of our age that when you see two groups fighting each other you must figure out which of them are the good guy and support that one. Sometimes neither side is good.

Guilty as charged--I am 100% biased in favor of anti-fascism. You got me.

How do you feel about competing brutal authoritarian dictatorial systems such as the ideas espoused by Antifa?

Jason... have you ever talked to an antifascist? Ever even met one? When a far-right rally is disrupted by guys wearing masks and throwing rocks, is your take roughly that the disruptors are motivated by a desire for tyrannical rule over society? Like, anonymous non-lethal scuffles in public squares that usually get them arrested, that's their master plan for installing a regimented dictatorship somehow?

Do you have an inkling of how old antifa movements are, and where they have historically been positioned relative to brutal authoritarian dicatorial systems?

You're descending deeper and deeper into the embarrassing La Brea Tar Pit of right wing delusion with every post.
 
Jason... have you ever talked to an antifascist? Ever even met one?

Too broad a term. Antifascist includes sensible people who oppose brutal authoritarian dictatorial systems, and also includes people who support competing brutal authoritarian dictatorial systems. The two groups that can be described as antifascist are not the same. One of them is sensible people and the other is antifa. I have talked to both sensible people and radical communists.

Which of the two describes your antifascist positioning? Do you oppose dictatorship as a whole and therefore include fascists in that, or are you a supporter of the competing dictatorship advocated by antifa?

Remember, not all antifascists are antifa. I know that, you know that.
 
Jason... have you ever talked to an antifascist? Ever even met one?

Too broad a term. Antifascist includes sensible people who oppose brutal authoritarian dictatorial systems, and also includes people who support competing brutal authoritarian dictatorial systems. The two groups that can be described as antifascist are not the same. One of them is sensible people and the other is antifa. I have talked to both sensible people and radical communists.

Which of the two describes your antifascist positioning? Do you oppose dictatorship as a whole and therefore include fascists in that, or are you a supporter of the competing dictatorship advocated by antifa?

Remember, not all antifascists are antifa. I know that, you know that.

No, I don't know that, because that's literally what the term means... is there like an official charter of this other "antifa" that describes the "competing dictatorship" they advocate? Or is it just a tendency you're extrapolating based on... what?

Also, and I mean this sincerely... do you understand the difference between fascism and dictatorship? How about fascism and violence? Do you know what fascism actually is?
 
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is there like an official charter of this other "antifa" that describes the "competing dictatorship" they advocate?

Unless there is a club charter then a group doesn't exist, so there's no such thing as antifa.

Also, and I mean this sincerely... do you understand the difference between fascism and dictatorship?

Fascism is one form of dictatorship. There are others.

How about fascism and violence?

Fascists are one of several violent group. There are others.

Do you know what fascism actually is?

Yes, do you?
 
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Unless there is a club charter then a group doesn't exist, so there's no such thing as antifa.
Just wondering where you got the whole "antifa wants to install a brutal authoritarian dictatorship by destroying shop displays and throwing milkshakes at racists" thing from, is all. If you had an answer you would've given it by now

Antifas (plural, it's not a proper name but a noun) began in the wake of the second World War as the post-Nazi government dragged its feet in ousting or holding accountable the remaining SS officers. They were a response to a state not doing its civic duty, and they inspired similar antifas in other parts of the world for similar reasons: always in response to fascist infiltration of society in positions of power or influence, and always as a stopgap measure when liberal governments failed to purge the rot and stood by idly while fascists moved through their ranks. In almost every case, they were comprised of socialists and communists, as you point out derisively.

Today is no different, except that the measures used by American and European antifas are kinder and gentler compared to their forbears. They destroy property, not people. They disrupt, humiliate, and sometimes injure, but virtually never maim or murder. They are the only ones standing up to the racism and hatred of the far-right in the US and UK, using the only means at their disposal, since the levers of representative parliamentary governance have failed to stem the rise of fascism in the last decade. If you want them to stop making mischief and throwing sardines at people, think about antifas from the libertarian perspective; they are what happens when the state fails to protect its people, and they are forced to perform a role they would rather not have to. Of course they are violent--it's violence in societal self-defense, it's a last resort. Nobody is happy that it's come to this.

That's why your characterization of them as having anything to do with top-down dictatorial oppression is laughable and almost sad. In every instance where they drive rascist mafiosos out of Croatia, reduce the attendance of white pride gatherings down to a handful of stubborn morons, and prevent literal gun-toting psychos from getting anywhere near migrants and refugees, they operate in defiance of top-down structures of rule. The ones who advocate the type of thing you're opposing are their enemies, who want a militarized border, forced sterilization, economic disenfranchisement of minorities, a restoration of "national purity". All of those require a giant authoritarian boot stepping on your face. Our governments aren't doing anything to stop the boot as it comes stomping down, so antifas begin to appear to slow its descent at the very least.

But the disgusting reaction to antifas is an exact mirror of all the other times they have spontaneously formed. Rather than seeing them as a symptom of milquetoast governance unwilling to tackle ascendant right-wing nationalism and identitarianism, which would require the state to actually acknowledge complacency (if not outright responsibility) in abetting it, the mass media creates and nurtures the consensus that antifas are the problem rather than a poor substitute for a solution. They criticize the mess and inefficiency of the citizen bucket-brigade that forms when the local fire department goes on strike and somebody's home is set ablaze.

I was trying to drive to work the other day and I almost got knocked over by some asshole with a bucket! There was water splashing everywhere, and some got on a lady's shirt. There were like 10 guys with buckets behind him, and they were all dumping them onto an apartment complex for some reason... I couldn't see through all the smoke. But they were dumping the buckets really aggressively and I felt unsafe!
 
Ah, what a magnificent rationalization attempt.

Can you explain the many people who are anti-fascist who would be offended if you said they were part of antifa?

I'm pretty sure that today's Portland Antifa weren't fighting Nazis in 1930s Germany. Whatever group used that name in the past, that doesn't mean today's group is the same.
 
Can you explain the many people who are anti-fascist who would be offended if you said they were part of antifa?
Such people think they are anti-fascist, but in practice they are the first to defend fascists and will never categorically repudiate them. To be anti-fascist, you have to actually oppose fascism, which means you support the movements that mount an opposition to it, flawed and messy as they are, rather than slobbering all over the boots of every cop, troop, white nationalist, isolationist, and race realist who Joe Rogan invites to vomit directly into his mouth.
 
Can you explain the many people who are anti-fascist who would be offended if you said they were part of antifa?
Such people think they are anti-fascist, but in practice they are the first to defend fascists and will never categorically repudiate them.

Because they don't want to be called "antifa". They oppose fascism and don't want to be called antifa.

You go on and on about how the current group shares a name with a group that existed a long time ago. Therefore, by your reasoning, they must be the same. Except there is no evidence for that.

If you look at the Republicans and Democrats argue about race, Republicans are quick to point out that they freed the slaves and the Democrats supported the KKK. The Democrats respond with "that was then, the parties have switched since then." Then they wind up in an argument about whether or not the "soft" bigotry of low expectations counts as racism.

But the Democratic Party of 1939 has the same name as the Democratic Party of 2019. The Republican Party of 1939 has the same name as the Republican Party of 2019. The Antifa of 1939 has the same name as the Antifa of 2019.

To be anti-fascist, you have to actually oppose fascism,

Which they do.

which means you support the movements that mount an opposition to it, flawed and messy as they are,

Which means that if you want to oppose the Crips you have to join the Bloods.

rather than slobbering all over the boots of every cop, troop, white nationalist, isolationist, and race realist who Joe Rogan invites to vomit directly into his mouth.

And the sensible middle who don't like violent shitheads no matter what their ideology, they don't slobber over government boots, over fascist boots, or over antifa boots. Your argument that anybody who won't slobber over antifa boots does so because they prefer to slobber over fascist boots is a false dichotomy. I just don't like violent shitheads.
 
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‘Minds’ Event Organizers: Antifa Threatens to Burn Down Theater Hosting Debate on Political Violence

The discussion, titled “Ending Racism, Violence and Authoritarianism,” was organized by the free speech friendly social network Minds.com, and features a range of liberal, libertarian, and conservative speakers including journalist Andy Ngo, who was brutally attacked and hospitalized by Antifa in Portland earlier this year.

Well it makes sense. The event has a center-right gay Asian reporter, and that can't be tolerated. The event is against racism, and Antifa uses racial epithets against minorities who don't agree with their radical violent ideology. The event is against violence and authoritarianism, and nothing enrages Antifa as being against violence and authoritarianism.

An Antifa-supporting account on social media suggested that the event could be fought by “locking them in and lighting a fire.”

Nothing says anti-fascism like burning people alive for opposing racism, violence, and authoritarianism.
 
Have you seen this reported by media other than Brietbart? I don't trust them. But if what they have reported is true, then this is indeed ironic given Antifa's claimed purpose and agenda.

Quote from the organizer:

“The purpose of this event is to bring together a diverse group of people with differing viewpoints – people who often have combative and unproductive discussions online, behind their screens – and have them discuss their opinions and beliefs face-to-face, where each person can see the humanity of those whose viewpoints he or she disagrees with.”

Makes sense to me. Good idea.
 
For the sake of this assume the news articles are true:

Take "Side A" media which finds a news story (or a particular fact from the story) that backs their agenda and the same story undercuts "Side B" media.

Side A will cover it and Side B will not. THEN Side B will say "look only Side A covered it, so it is a lie".

The reverse happens all the time as well.
Scary times.
 
They have recently been certified by NewsGuard.
But Breitbart does not certify NewsGuard

So maybe NewsGuard is giving them the OK so Breitbart stops criticizing them?? IDK
But I do know that Breitbart has never been a credible source for anything.

Reading the article, a spokeswoman for the group claimed Antifa threatened them.... No proof given that there even was an actual threat made, let alone how they can accurately attribute it to anyone if there was one.
 
For the sake of this assume the news articles are true:

Take "Side A" media which finds a news story (or a particular fact from the story) that backs their agenda and the same story undercuts "Side B" media.

Side A will cover it and Side B will not. THEN Side B will say "look only Side A covered it, so it is a lie".

The reverse happens all the time as well.
Scary times.

Very good analysis.
 
For the sake of this assume the news articles are true:

Take "Side A" media which finds a news story (or a particular fact from the story) that backs their agenda and the same story undercuts "Side B" media.

Side A will cover it and Side B will not. THEN Side B will say "look only Side A covered it, so it is a lie".

The reverse happens all the time as well.
Scary times.

Very good analysis.

That was not actually an analysis at all, it was just a hasty generalization. Quite unlike the post that immediately preceded yours:

They have recently been certified by NewsGuard.
But Breitbart does not certify NewsGuard

So maybe NewsGuard is giving them the OK so Breitbart stops criticizing them?? IDK
But I do know that Breitbart has never been a credible source for anything.

Reading the article, a spokeswoman for the group claimed Antifa threatened them.... No proof given that there even was an actual threat made, let alone how they can accurately attribute it to anyone if there was one.

That is actually a very good analysis of the article in question, showing just how deficient the source for their "reporting" was.
 
Right-Wing Star Andy Ngo Exits Quillette After Damning Video Surfaces

But footage taken by an undercover liberal activist in May and described on Monday by the Portland Mercury showed Ngo witnessing activists from the far-right group Patriot Prayer planning a violent confrontation at a bar associated with left-wing activists. Ngo never reported on what he had seen the Patriot Prayer members planning, and some of the people involved in the attack at the bar now face felony riot charges.

Good riddance, POS.
 
For the sake of this assume the news articles are true:

Take "Side A" media which finds a news story (or a particular fact from the story) that backs their agenda and the same story undercuts "Side B" media.

Side A will cover it and Side B will not. THEN Side B will say "look only Side A covered it, so it is a lie".

The reverse happens all the time as well.
Scary times.

Fair point. Which is why we need C media that doesn't take a side.
 
For the sake of this assume the news articles are true:

Take "Side A" media which finds a news story (or a particular fact from the story) that backs their agenda and the same story undercuts "Side B" media.

Side A will cover it and Side B will not. THEN Side B will say "look only Side A covered it, so it is a lie".

The reverse happens all the time as well.
Scary times.

Fair point. Which is why we need C media that doesn't take a side.

Except that, in an environment in which the target audience is "humans", that's a losing strategy. Humans love conflict and taking "sides". They eat up oppositional games like a dung beetle eats shit. And since the point is not to "tell the truth" but rather "attract viewers so as to sell advertisement time", the more lucrative and thus successful strategy is to sell a "side", particularly a "side" that doesn't strongly oppose "the side of the moneyed media".
 
Right-Wing Star Andy Ngo Exits Quillette After Damning Video Surfaces

But footage taken by an undercover liberal activist in May and described on Monday by the Portland Mercury showed Ngo witnessing activists from the far-right group Patriot Prayer planning a violent confrontation at a bar associated with left-wing activists. Ngo never reported on what he had seen the Patriot Prayer members planning, and some of the people involved in the attack at the bar now face felony riot charges.

Good riddance, POS.

Ngo is a clown. Hopefully we will never hear about him again.
 
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