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Wouldn't be the first time a false flag operation went wrong.
<cough> Jussie Smollett <cough>
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Remember, Antifa only attacks fascists, right?
- Thread starter Jason Harvestdancer
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Wouldn't be the first time a false flag operation went wrong.
<cough> Jussie Smollett <cough>
You're comparing the assault on Ngo with Smollet? FFS.
repoman
Contributor
He got walloped for sure, but did he play up the damage? Not sure.
If he did (I am not claiming) then there is a risk that the hospital staff have a bombshell to leak.
If he did (I am not claiming) then there is a risk that the hospital staff have a bombshell to leak.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
The fact that there is any debate about the assault on Ngo is evidence of a very disturbing trend in the normalization of political violence.
Way back when this debate started, those who initiated this violence were careful to only assault people who were clearly very bad people. That way, anyone who dared say "political violence is bad" were accused of defending the very bad people. Then at each step the violence went closer and closer to mainstream targets. There's no way to say that Andy Ngo is fascist, fascist sympathetic, etc. He's just a moderate conservative journalist who dares to report on Antifa's activities. Apparently now even that can be considered an acceptable target to some.
Way back when this debate started, those who initiated this violence were careful to only assault people who were clearly very bad people. That way, anyone who dared say "political violence is bad" were accused of defending the very bad people. Then at each step the violence went closer and closer to mainstream targets. There's no way to say that Andy Ngo is fascist, fascist sympathetic, etc. He's just a moderate conservative journalist who dares to report on Antifa's activities. Apparently now even that can be considered an acceptable target to some.
Koyaanisqatsi
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Jarhyn
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You say that at a time when fascists everywhere in the United States are conducting unprecedented numbers of attacks against minorities.
The violence was normalized by the fascists.
The fact that Ngo reports on Antifa to put them in a bad light, and completely ignores the actual fascist violence from the Proud Boys et al puts him firmly into the fascist camp.
I don't thing Ngo is in any way deserving of getting the shit kicked out of him, but he is a piece of shit that I also have absolutely no sympathy for.
He is an unfortunate casualty in the war against fascism.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Can you provide some backup to "unsubstantiated" in your statement?
See? That is what I was talking about, the incrementalization of Antifa violence. Even people who are otherwise reprehensible do deserve sympathy if they are the target of violence of this nature.
I'm not here to defend the far right or the proud boys. But I am here to point out that any accusation of Andy Ngo being part of the far right or anything similar is nothing more than an attempt to excuse barbarism and criminality.
That is an example of the point I am making.
Spurious? Are you in the camp that says this story is fake?
But Andy Ngo is center right, not far right.
But Andy Ngo is center right, not far right.
That's actually my question for those who excuse this act of fascist barbarism against Andy Ngo.
Asking for a country.
Jarhyn
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You say Antifa is violent, but aside from punching the shit out of this piece of far right shit, mostly I just see milkshaking.
But no, he is not 'center right'. He's far right.
Maybe you should quit apologising for fascists. Seems pretty fascistic to me.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Andy Ngo is not far right, he's center right.
I'm addressing violence against someone who is center right, you are apologizing for violence against someone who is center right. One of those is fascist.
I ran across another story about recent antifa activity, but since I can't find a reliable source I'm not using it as further evidence against this violent white middle-class group. What we have, though, is evidence of barbarity, authoritarianism, and fascism exercised by antifa and its apologists.
repoman
Contributor
They are not fascists, this is as violent as communist radicals are. Put the blame on the right ideology. Jesus fucking christ.
I want to ask a question to the whole board about the Chinese and the USSR governments and their treatment of ethnic minorities.
Would you say that what China has done to the Tibetans and now to the Uighurs is communistic or fascist (inasmuch as delineations can be made)?
What about the Russification of various parts of the soviet union?
Would not communists (as proponents would say) either not care at all about whatever ethnic groups were around and let them be or try to get them to intermix and lose ethnic identities to make future political fractures less likely?
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repoman
Contributor
I have been too distracted, but I should buckle down and find out exactly what Ngo has said about various groups and more importantly the full context of those statements.
This is not related to whata violence he recieved, but I do not want that to make me ignore what he has said.
Also a couple of weeks ago he did a massive twitter thread on transgender people who were killed recently (maybe 25 or more
) and showed how none of those were hate crimes at all, but just drugs deals, domestic violence and so on.
This is common sense that not every time an LGBT person is killed it is related to a hatred of LGBT people. But I guess it is not commonsense anymore.
There is power to be had if all domestic violence and drug deal etc.. cases can be lied about as trans bashing murders. Some dumb unnecessary laws will come from this propaganda campaign.
If there happens to be a murder case that becomes nationwide as the cause celebre of this that later comes out with unequivocal proof that it was NOT related to LGBT hate, there are organizations that will FUCKING LIE about it shamelessly in the same way that a prosecutor knowingly lies about a case that puts an innocent black man on death row.
Humans are fucking gross and almost irredeemable at this point.
This is not related to whata violence he recieved, but I do not want that to make me ignore what he has said.
Also a couple of weeks ago he did a massive twitter thread on transgender people who were killed recently (maybe 25 or more
) and showed how none of those were hate crimes at all, but just drugs deals, domestic violence and so on.
This is common sense that not every time an LGBT person is killed it is related to a hatred of LGBT people. But I guess it is not commonsense anymore.
There is power to be had if all domestic violence and drug deal etc.. cases can be lied about as trans bashing murders. Some dumb unnecessary laws will come from this propaganda campaign.
If there happens to be a murder case that becomes nationwide as the cause celebre of this that later comes out with unequivocal proof that it was NOT related to LGBT hate, there are organizations that will FUCKING LIE about it shamelessly in the same way that a prosecutor knowingly lies about a case that puts an innocent black man on death row.
Humans are fucking gross and almost irredeemable at this point.
Hatred and attacks on trans people is a genuine problem. False cases being pushed to virtue signal don't help, and very much hurt genuine cases and the fight for empathy and coexistence. People attacking journalists because of guilt by imagined association help even less.
Corrupt powers attacking journalists is a problem that more than dwarfs your pet news item here, don't you think?
Traumatizing children and families for the express purpose of cruelty is an actual, ongoing atrocity as we speak, so what "virtues" are you guys signalling by focusing on this one news item that does not in any way whatsoever reflect a widespread problem of society?
Arctish
Centimillionaire
I didn't know who Andy Ngo was before reading this thread and following links. It sounds like the punching was personal, not a broad attack on journalists or persons with differing opinions. With that said, though, I think we've become so polarized in this country that attacks like this will probably be pretty common going into the next elections. We might even reach 1960s levels of rioting and mayhem. I don't approve of it, but I won't condemn anyone standing up to Nazis, either.
There comes a time when even pacifists have to put up a fight or violent assholes will go about their racist, bigoted, society destroying business unopposed.
There comes a time when even pacifists have to put up a fight or violent assholes will go about their racist, bigoted, society destroying business unopposed.
To clarify, may we presume that you do condemn the assault on Ngo and don't view him as a Nazi?
Arctish
Centimillionaire
Punching him was criminal assault and battery. No excuse for that.
I'm more ambivalent about the milkshakes. Yes, it's mean and will probably result in a dry cleaning bill, but it's not really different from starting a food fight.
I don't know that he's a Nazi but those guys in Portland seem to think he's a Nazi apologist of some sort, and they know more about him than I do.
laughing dog
Contributor
I still cannot find any reports that verify the attacker(s) of Mr. Ngo. From what I can tell from reports, I do not condone his attack, but I have little sympathy for him.
Elixir
Made in America
Funny how the left wing media condemn the attack, while right wing media celebrate shit like Charlottesville.
Why aren't you up in arms about THAT?
Who celebrated Charlottesville?
