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Return of Kings: Supporters of website touting 'legalising rape' to meet across Australia

If men acted like real men and served as decent role models for young men coming up, mothers wouldn't have to worry so much about their daughters' safety.
It doesn't matter what your intentions were; you did what you tell others not to do: you told your daughter to protect herself when instead you should have told men not to rape. You put the responsibility on her shoulders instead of theirs.

I laugh at the notion of 'real men'. What a ridiculous and transparent attempt at manipulation. Every man is as 'real' as the next, whether he is a horrible shit or the embodiment of kindness.

Yeah, you really don't have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about.

Iconfess that I am beginning to also laugh at the notion of real men.
 
Living life has lots of risks attached, not just rape, adjust accordingly.

If we're discussing rape, it seems to me that the biggest risk that women take is having any interactions with men.
No, apparently not. The biggest risk is having interactions with me they know.

But of course this is not what the guy in the OP was talking about. He was talking and writing about women not getting drunk in bars and going to the homes of strangers.
But apparently we can't advise women not to do that. It sounds crazy
 
What is being forgotten by the sexist return of kings crowd is that when kings were ruling everywhere...the average man was a serf, a peasant, or a slave. There are greater liabilities with kings than just rape. Have you not read most of Shakespeare's plays? Who wants to go back to that bullshit?:thinking:
 
What is being forgotten by the sexist return of kings crowd is that when kings were ruling everywhere...the average man was a serf, a peasant, or a slave. There are greater liabilities with kings than just rape. Have you not read most of Shakespeare's plays? Who wants to go back to that bullshit?:thinking:
See these guys see themselves as the kings. Decent men who do not rape are serfs, peasants or slaves!
 
So, Roosh had a "press conference." Transcript: RooshV press conference 6/2/16

Roosh: I regret that people are so stupid that I have to put that in there right now. I never imagined that people would take that in a literal way to lie in order to push their miserable agenda. I never thought that you guys would lie about it. But now, because the masses believe the nonsense that you write, I have to treat everyone like an eight-year-old kid and say this was a thought experiment even though to anyone who is not an idiot should have known that.

If only it were made legal for people to take what you wrote in a "wrong" way, then nobody would ever write anything that could be taken in a wrong way.
 
Many more resources and much more effort has been put forth to educate potential rape victims on how to reduce their chances of being raped. There is no doubt that is valuable. However, those resources and that effort is not focused on the actual problem: people who rape. Compared to the resources and the effort on educating potential rape victims, the resources and efforts to educate potential rapists pales in comparison. Arguing that educating ______ does not eliminate the problem of rape confuses the goal of eliminating rape with the result. If no one felt the need to rape, the behavior of potential rape victims would be moot. The reverse is not true. Asking or demanding that society focus more on the dealing with the attitudes and psychology of potential rapists is a rational response.

I absolutely agree. I think there's a general sense out there that "rapists will be rapists." I am very wary of this attitude. I am generally a believer that people can reform their behavior, even unacceptable sexual behavior (within limits). Educating potential rapists seems like a no-brainer to me.

Besides, isn't the whole attitude that women are responsible for preventing rape just a continuation of misogynistic victim blaming?

Yes.
 
If we're discussing rape, it seems to me that the biggest risk that women take is having any interactions with men.
No, apparently not. The biggest risk is having interactions with me they know.

But of course this is not what the guy in the OP was talking about. He was talking and writing about women not getting drunk in bars and going to the homes of strangers.
But apparently we can't advise women not to do that. It sounds crazy

We already do. Why are you not grasping that fact?

So, if as you say, the OP is about 18% of problem, why not move the need to change behaviors off 18% of victims and onto 100% of offenders?
 
What is being forgotten by the sexist return of kings crowd is that when kings were ruling everywhere...the average man was a serf, a peasant, or a slave. There are greater liabilities with kings than just rape. Have you not read most of Shakespeare's plays? Who wants to go back to that bullshit?:thinking:
See these guys see themselves as the kings. Decent men who do not rape are serfs, peasants or slaves!

Except kings could--and did--legally rape anyone they chose. It just wasn't called rape.

So yeah, they do think of themselves as kings. Exactly.
 
The archetype of the stranger rapist is a big part of the problem. Men who know their victims begin to see forcing themselves on women as being something other than rape partly if not mostly because the woman is known to him. And rape is an act between strangers in an alley not study partners in a dorm room.
 
That doesn't answer the question, though, does it?

On that one fateful night you are too drunk to drive home by yourself and you ask me to give you a ride; I instead drive you to a secluded place and rape you. That would be an unexpected consequence of YOUR irresponsible behavior, am I right?

Bad decisions have consequences. If you didn't want me to rape you, you shouldn't have gotten into my car.

Look, you can come up with all sorts of scenarios and analyze it to death, just use some common sense.
If it were a drunk woman on her own, my advice would be don't accept a ride from a complete stranger, get a cab.

Wait, what?

Are all the cab drivers in your town well known local characters or something?

How is getting a cab NOT getting a ride from a complete stranger?
 
The archetype of the stranger rapist is a big part of the problem. Men who know their victims begin to see forcing themselves on women as being something other than rape partly if not mostly because the woman is known to him. And rape is an act between strangers in an alley not study partners in a dorm room.

The definition of rape covers a broad spectrum, which spans from the stranger who hides in an alley to the date who won't leave. This is a lot of the problem, because as Hamlet said, "We must speak by the card, or be undone by equivocation."

In discussions such as this, it's easy to pull a definition from a different part of the spectrum and dispute someone else's point. Although the lines are not distinct, most of us can tell when the line is crossed.

There is a difference between stranger rape and acquaintance rape, sometimes. It is entirely possible for a man to assault an acquaintance and force her to have sex, when there is no ambiguity. It happens. What is more common in acquaintance rape is inferred consent. In the past century, we have had to face a drastic change in social structure, especially among the lower and middle classes. In our culture, adolescents and young adults are basically free being, responsible for themselves and their safety. We allow them to go out in public and into private homes with no supervision from their families. This means sexual contact is not only possible, but very likely.

Since the family can no longer restrict sexual access to their young women, we dropped the burden on the young women. She controls how far a young man may go. Very little attention is paid to the young men, time spent instructing them about sexual limits. This maybe because it's seen as a waste of time. This leads to the immediate problem of recognizing and enforcing a sexual limit. What the hell does that mean?

Nobody really knows. She may not want to limit him. She may want sex as much, or more, than he does. There's no way to predict this.

What this leads to is seeing lack of resistance as consent. This is inferred consent. The man pushes the limit and finds resistance, but not much. Maybe it's just a show of resistance. He pushes harder. If her resistance lessons, is this consent, or has he just worn her down? This can quickly lead to acquaintance rape. She was frightened and intimidated. He thought she wanted it.

The problem here is we have put too much on young women and not enough on young men. It's and issue of socialization. We learn from an early age not to create hazards for other people, through our selfish actions. This is why we have stop signs. Everybody recognizes the need to stop, before proceeding. Perhaps in the coming decades, we will change the way we raise boys and thus change the young men they become.

It would certainly reduce the number of men who think sex with a woman, any woman, is some sort of basic human right, and the government should allow them to seize any woman who cannot defend herself.
 
The archetype of the stranger rapist is a big part of the problem. Men who know their victims begin to see forcing themselves on women as being something other than rape partly if not mostly because the woman is known to him. And rape is an act between strangers in an alley not study partners in a dorm room.

The definition of rape covers a broad spectrum, which spans from the stranger who hides in an alley to the date who won't leave. This is a lot of the problem, because as Hamlet said, "We must speak by the card, or be undone by equivocation."

In discussions such as this, it's easy to pull a definition from a different part of the spectrum and dispute someone else's point. Although the lines are not distinct, most of us can tell when the line is crossed.

There is a difference between stranger rape and acquaintance rape, sometimes. It is entirely possible for a man to assault an acquaintance and force her to have sex, when there is no ambiguity. It happens. What is more common in acquaintance rape is inferred consent. In the past century, we have had to face a drastic change in social structure, especially among the lower and middle classes. In our culture, adolescents and young adults are basically free being, responsible for themselves and their safety. We allow them to go out in public and into private homes with no supervision from their families. This means sexual contact is not only possible, but very likely.

Since the family can no longer restrict sexual access to their young women, we dropped the burden on the young women. She controls how far a young man may go. Very little attention is paid to the young men, time spent instructing them about sexual limits. This maybe because it's seen as a waste of time. This leads to the immediate problem of recognizing and enforcing a sexual limit. What the hell does that mean?

Nobody really knows. She may not want to limit him. She may want sex as much, or more, than he does. There's no way to predict this.

What this leads to is seeing lack of resistance as consent. This is inferred consent. The man pushes the limit and finds resistance, but not much. Maybe it's just a show of resistance. He pushes harder. If her resistance lessons, is this consent, or has he just worn her down? This can quickly lead to acquaintance rape. She was frightened and intimidated. He thought she wanted it.

The problem here is we have put too much on young women and not enough on young men. It's and issue of socialization. We learn from an early age not to create hazards for other people, through our selfish actions. This is why we have stop signs. Everybody recognizes the need to stop, before proceeding. Perhaps in the coming decades, we will change the way we raise boys and thus change the young men they become.

It would certainly reduce the number of men who think sex with a woman, any woman, is some sort of basic human right, and the government should allow them to seize any woman who cannot defend herself.

I disagree that in acquaintance rape, there is inferred consent. Or at least, logically inferred consent. There does seem to be a certain subset of individuals who believe that if the guy has an erection, the woman must have consented--or meant to consent if she were sober enough. I don't believe that's really what you are talking about, though. You seem to believe that there is a large portion of rapes which happen because two drunk kids get carried away and she sobers up and is regretful---a la Derec's version of reality. That's not born out by statistics.

Instead, acquaintance rape, the acquaintance has more access/less restricted access to the victim. The change in mores happened long before I was dating and I'm nearing retirement age. What has changed is legal definitions of rape, which now includes recognition that rape can occur within a marriage or established relationship, can happen to males, can happen to sex workers, can happen between people who are known to one another, as well as the definition of consent to include not being too drunk or drugged or mentally disabled or otherwise incapacitated to give consent.

Rapes have always occurred mostly between people who are known to one another. It's relatively rare for a person to be raped by a stranger while walking home from a bar, drunk, down a dark alley way.
 
P.S. Nice Squirrel, I know that you are trying to be even-handed here, and not a dick like a few others, but you are still placing blame where it doesn't belong.
Is there anything a woman could do which would be foolish and stupid?

I know there are many women I know who think that popping some pills and getting drunk and going to a private home with men she didn't know would be foolish and stupid. Do you think it would be?

I think individual women AND MEN can be foolish and stupid at times. That has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing rapes or who to blame when someone is raped or Voosh's asinine advocacy for legalized rape on private property*


which, btw, is all property not public meaning that the dumb-ass is advocating for raping women in bars, office buildings, retail shops, churches... basically everywhere except government buildings and public parks. There is nothing *understandable* about that idiocy

Or perhaps you think women should be forced to stay in their own home unless wearing a burka and accompanied by a male family member whenever they venture out?
 
That doesn't answer the question, though, does it?

On that one fateful night you are too drunk to drive home by yourself and you ask me to give you a ride; I instead drive you to a secluded place and rape you. That would be an unexpected consequence of YOUR irresponsible behavior, am I right?

Bad decisions have consequences. If you didn't want me to rape you, you shouldn't have gotten into my car.

Look, you can come up with all sorts of scenarios and analyze it to death, just use some common sense.
If it were a drunk woman on her own, my advice would be don't accept a ride from a complete stranger, get a cab.

and when she's raped by the cab driver, will that be her fault too?
 
The definition of rape covers a broad spectrum, which spans from the stranger who hides in an alley to the date who won't leave. This is a lot of the problem, because as Hamlet said, "We must speak by the card, or be undone by equivocation."

In discussions such as this, it's easy to pull a definition from a different part of the spectrum and dispute someone else's point. Although the lines are not distinct, most of us can tell when the line is crossed.

There is a difference between stranger rape and acquaintance rape, sometimes. It is entirely possible for a man to assault an acquaintance and force her to have sex, when there is no ambiguity. It happens. What is more common in acquaintance rape is inferred consent. In the past century, we have had to face a drastic change in social structure, especially among the lower and middle classes. In our culture, adolescents and young adults are basically free being, responsible for themselves and their safety. We allow them to go out in public and into private homes with no supervision from their families. This means sexual contact is not only possible, but very likely.

Since the family can no longer restrict sexual access to their young women, we dropped the burden on the young women. She controls how far a young man may go. Very little attention is paid to the young men, time spent instructing them about sexual limits. This maybe because it's seen as a waste of time. This leads to the immediate problem of recognizing and enforcing a sexual limit. What the hell does that mean?

Nobody really knows. She may not want to limit him. She may want sex as much, or more, than he does. There's no way to predict this.

What this leads to is seeing lack of resistance as consent. This is inferred consent. The man pushes the limit and finds resistance, but not much. Maybe it's just a show of resistance. He pushes harder. If her resistance lessons, is this consent, or has he just worn her down? This can quickly lead to acquaintance rape. She was frightened and intimidated. He thought she wanted it.

The problem here is we have put too much on young women and not enough on young men. It's and issue of socialization. We learn from an early age not to create hazards for other people, through our selfish actions. This is why we have stop signs. Everybody recognizes the need to stop, before proceeding. Perhaps in the coming decades, we will change the way we raise boys and thus change the young men they become.

It would certainly reduce the number of men who think sex with a woman, any woman, is some sort of basic human right, and the government should allow them to seize any woman who cannot defend herself.

I disagree that in acquaintance rape, there is inferred consent. Or at least, logically inferred consent. There does seem to be a certain subset of individuals who believe that if the guy has an erection, the woman must have consented--or meant to consent if she were sober enough. I don't believe that's really what you are talking about, though. You seem to believe that there is a large portion of rapes which happen because two drunk kids get carried away and she sobers up and is regretful---a la Derec's version of reality. That's not born out by statistics.

Instead, acquaintance rape, the acquaintance has more access/less restricted access to the victim. The change in mores happened long before I was dating and I'm nearing retirement age. What has changed is legal definitions of rape, which now includes recognition that rape can occur within a marriage or established relationship, can happen to males, can happen to sex workers, can happen between people who are known to one another, as well as the definition of consent to include not being too drunk or drugged or mentally disabled or otherwise incapacitated to give consent.

Rapes have always occurred mostly between people who are known to one another. It's relatively rare for a person to be raped by a stranger while walking home from a bar, drunk, down a dark alley way.

I don't quite think that's what Bronzeage is getting at. People are used to thinking of rape as involving violence and physical force. When you phrase it in terms of consent, however, a rape can be carried out with little physical force. It is very easy for a man in that situation to think, "She's not resisting (physically), so she must think it's OK." Of course, if the man knows the woman and thinks she is attracted to him, he is even more likely to think this.

It's not straight thinking, of course. In the phrase "inferred consent," the "inferred" part is entirely in the man's head. He reads into the situation something that is not there--namely, the female's consent--because he really wants it to be there and will take anything as a sign. It is wrong-headed and illogical. Bronzeage was simply pointing out that this exists. And this exists in the man's head. That is why it is so important to educate men. We need to get that out of their heads.

Now surely, not all rapes are like this. And, of course, many rapes between known individuals are violent. We're only talking about a subset of all rapes here. I don't know how large or small of a subset it is, but it is a subset that can be addressed through educating men.
 
I disagree that in acquaintance rape, there is inferred consent. Or at least, logically inferred consent. There does seem to be a certain subset of individuals who believe that if the guy has an erection, the woman must have consented--or meant to consent if she were sober enough. I don't believe that's really what you are talking about, though. You seem to believe that there is a large portion of rapes which happen because two drunk kids get carried away and she sobers up and is regretful---a la Derec's version of reality. That's not born out by statistics.

Instead, acquaintance rape, the acquaintance has more access/less restricted access to the victim. The change in mores happened long before I was dating and I'm nearing retirement age. What has changed is legal definitions of rape, which now includes recognition that rape can occur within a marriage or established relationship, can happen to males, can happen to sex workers, can happen between people who are known to one another, as well as the definition of consent to include not being too drunk or drugged or mentally disabled or otherwise incapacitated to give consent.

Rapes have always occurred mostly between people who are known to one another. It's relatively rare for a person to be raped by a stranger while walking home from a bar, drunk, down a dark alley way.

I don't quite think that's what Bronzeage is getting at. People are used to thinking of rape as involving violence and physical force. When you phrase it in terms of consent, however, a rape can be carried out with little physical force. It is very easy for a man in that situation to think, "She's not resisting (physically), so she must think it's OK." Of course, if the man knows the woman and thinks she is attracted to him, he is even more likely to think this.

It's not straight thinking, of course. In the phrase "inferred consent," the "inferred" part is entirely in the man's head. He reads into the situation something that is not there--namely, the female's consent--because he really wants it to be there and will take anything as a sign. It is wrong-headed and illogical. Bronzeage was simply pointing out that this exists. And this exists in the man's head. That is why it is so important to educate men. We need to get that out of their heads.

Now surely, not all rapes are like this. And, of course, many rapes between known individuals are violent. We're only talking about a subset of all rapes here. I don't know how large or small of a subset it is, but it is a subset that can be addressed through educating men.

As I said, the definition of rape covers a wide spectrum and the definition is subject to expansion and clarification. In my teen dating years, no one ever heard the term "date rape." Now, it's a recognized thing. We are moving slowly, but moving none the less. This has brought about our current crop of paranoids who fear false rape accusations the way ordinary people fear plague.

There will always be sociopaths who prey on others and violent rapists are in this class. It's no coincidence that most male serial killers are also rapists. They maybe a small percentage of the population, but will always be a real threat.

The other end of the spectrum where we encounter acquaintance rape is a different matter. We can eliminate the threat of date rape, in all its forms. It will take changes in the way we raise both boys and girls. We must give up on the old model of leaving it up to the girl and teach boys and young men that they are as responsible as their partner.

There is a lot packed in that last sentence. Since we put girls in charge, we've perpetuated the idea that a girl should preserve her virginity until the right time, and boy should lose his as soon as possible. This is an impossible situation. If we abandon the idea that a girl's(or woman's virginity) is something special, then we can focus on the true risks involved, namely, pregnancy and disease. This is where we have failed, time and time again.

In our old system, pregnancy and disease were the consequences of breaking the rules. This is why we see so many religious conservatives fight any kind of birth control education, or availability. They fear if the consequences are eliminated, young people will start having sex. The bone headed thing about this is, young people are having the riskiest sex possible.

Been there, done that, learned it the hard way.


The men addressed in the OP are an aberration. They are idiots and not really a threat to anyone. They propose something contrary to human culture, since the beginning of time. They aren't the problem.
 
I don't quite think that's what Bronzeage is getting at. People are used to thinking of rape as involving violence and physical force. When you phrase it in terms of consent, however, a rape can be carried out with little physical force. It is very easy for a man in that situation to think, "She's not resisting (physically), so she must think it's OK." Of course, if the man knows the woman and thinks she is attracted to him, he is even more likely to think this.

It's not straight thinking, of course. In the phrase "inferred consent," the "inferred" part is entirely in the man's head. He reads into the situation something that is not there--namely, the female's consent--because he really wants it to be there and will take anything as a sign. It is wrong-headed and illogical. Bronzeage was simply pointing out that this exists. And this exists in the man's head. That is why it is so important to educate men. We need to get that out of their heads.

Now surely, not all rapes are like this. And, of course, many rapes between known individuals are violent. We're only talking about a subset of all rapes here. I don't know how large or small of a subset it is, but it is a subset that can be addressed through educating men.

As I said, the definition of rape covers a wide spectrum and the definition is subject to expansion and clarification. In my teen dating years, no one ever heard the term "date rape." Now, it's a recognized thing. We are moving slowly, but moving none the less. This has brought about our current crop of paranoids who fear false rape accusations the way ordinary people fear plague.

There will always be sociopaths who prey on others and violent rapists are in this class. It's no coincidence that most male serial killers are also rapists. They maybe a small percentage of the population, but will always be a real threat.

The other end of the spectrum where we encounter acquaintance rape is a different matter. We can eliminate the threat of date rape, in all its forms. It will take changes in the way we raise both boys and girls. We must give up on the old model of leaving it up to the girl and teach boys and young men that they are as responsible as their partner.

There is a lot packed in that last sentence. Since we put girls in charge, we've perpetuated the idea that a girl should preserve her virginity until the right time, and boy should lose his as soon as possible. This is an impossible situation. If we abandon the idea that a girl's(or woman's virginity) is something special, then we can focus on the true risks involved, namely, pregnancy and disease. This is where we have failed, time and time again.

In our old system, pregnancy and disease were the consequences of breaking the rules. This is why we see so many religious conservatives fight any kind of birth control education, or availability. They fear if the consequences are eliminated, young people will start having sex. The bone headed thing about this is, young people are having the riskiest sex possible.

Been there, done that, learned it the hard way.


The men addressed in the OP are an aberration. They are idiots and not really a threat to anyone. They propose something contrary to human culture, since the beginning of time. They aren't the problem.

I am less willing than you are to let acquaintance rapists off as being vastly different than other 'violent' rapists. I've had some experience, you see. With people I knew. There was no 'misunderstanding' except about the amount of resistance a very small woman would put up, on her behalf or on the behalf of another woman unable to stand up for herself.

I realize it's much more comforting to think that it's all just a misunderstanding. It's not. I've looked into the eyes of males who wanted to do me serious harm: rape and murder for sure. I'm not sure how far the guy with the bicycle chain around my throat would have taken it if he hadn't been stopped. Since he was close to 300 lbs to my less than 100, I was really lucky there were other people standing right here. Mind you: that didn't stop him from putting the bicycle chain around my throat and threatening to kill me. The other guys looked alarmed and got him to back off. This happened in my dorm. He was mad because he thought I was interfering with his 'romance' with a friend of mine, who was seriously dodging him at every opportunity because he was a creep and she was trying to be 'nice.' I saw the looks in the eyes of the guys who lined up to rape my friend. The only 'misunderstanding' was that they thought they could get away with it and because she was drunk and not a virgin, it wasn't rape. Oh, and in that line was at least one guy who was very, very openly gay.

Of those nice young men who attempted to do harm to me or friends of mine: Well, for the ones I knew or knew of after college: one was ordained as a minister, a couple went to law school, one to dental school, and some intended to get MBAs. Not sure how that worked out for most of them. But no ignorant, backwoods, drug addled would be pimp daddy among them. Fine, upstanding young men, every last one.

Sorry. I've looked into the eyes of guys who want to force themselves upon some one they thought couldn't or wouldn't fight back. A couple of times, that person they thought couldn't or wouldn't fight back was me. They were wrong. And yeah, I was lucky.
 
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No, apparently not. The biggest risk is having interactions with me they know.

But of course this is not what the guy in the OP was talking about. He was talking and writing about women not getting drunk in bars and going to the homes of strangers.
But apparently we can't advise women not to do that. It sounds crazy

We already do. Why are you not grasping that fact?
well i'm not sure what the argument is about.

- - - Updated - - -

Or perhaps you think women should be forced to stay in their own home unless wearing a burka and accompanied by a male family member whenever they venture out?
Yes i do. I thought I made that clear :rolleyes:
 
I wonder if these people are really serious, or just trolling for a reaction.
I think R Voosh is serious. He is on the one hand serious about selling more books, on the other hand serious about what he preaches (as all preachers are).

As a younger man he wanted to get sex, so he experimented with the "pick up game". He found that in modern liberated western society one could have what many men must have dreamed of. you could go to a bar "play the game" press the right buttons say the right things stand the right way, act the right way and women would sleep with you.
Hi thesis was (and he is a trained scientist) that women (or the ones he found in bars) were really lost easily manipulated and open to having casual sex, if they thought they had found the right kind of guy. But, the guy they were looking for was wasn't the kind of guy his mother found in his father, and it wasn't what he thought a woman would look for. It was all very shallow.
So he ends up thinking feminists are idiots who have betrayed other women rather than liberating them,
 
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